What can Burrow do differently?

[casear2727]

(02-17-2022, 04:39 PM)Joelist Wrote: Burrow is great but he does hold the ball a little and has a habit of not stepping up into the pocket (which was mostly NOT getting shoved into his face).

There are other things too - play design (too many empty sets and the team HAS to learn how to screen effectively), backs uniformly suck as blockers so chipping frequently failed as the back whiffed and such.

Empty sets can be helpful too.  Not only 5 wr but defenses cannot disguise coverages as well pre-snap so that helps the QB to know sooner who he wants to throw to.. 

The Rams are last in the league in defending the screens and we literally did not run one. Inexcusable and on Zac (as is Perine instead of Mixon).

[*michaelsean*]

stepping up in the pocket can be tough when your center and guard are getting blown backwards. I'm sure there are times he has stepped up, and times he should have stepped up, but can't blame him for not trusting that.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-17-2022, 04:40 PM)Wyche Wrote: Tyler Boyd was wide open on the 4th and 1 in the first quarter that he forced to Chase. He'll see that film, and correct it.

I honestly believe by the end of the season Joe almost gave up going through his progressions. He was mentally out of it from all the sacks he took during the playoffs and rushing to get out of the pocket. There were a NUMBER of times during the SB where he missed 2nd and 3rd options that were wide open. He missed CJ on the last play of the game as well. 

[CincyDog]

(02-17-2022, 03:39 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Seventy sacks.  We've all heard it, we've all seen it.  Burrow was hit an obscene number of times this year, and this is the second year in a row that he ended the season with a knee injury.  Something has to change.  

Offensive line depth is a problem, as is offensive line talent in general.  But the line is not responsible for all seventy of these sacks.  Burrow has a part to play in this too.  So ASSUMING the coaches and front office make big moves in the off-season to improve the offensive line talent and build depth, what can Burrow personally improve upon moving forward to drive these sack numbers down even lower?

I have held off on positing this, because it seems nit picky - but if I notice it, then it is a thing. 

When he receives the ball in shotgun, he is nearly always leaning or moving slightly forward to meet the ball, then he is stopping his frwd momentum and kind of reversing and taking his drop as needed. 

It is a matter of tenths of a second, but it is something he can clean up. 

Has anyone else noticed this?  

[basballguy]

(02-17-2022, 04:58 PM)CincyDog Wrote: I have held off on positing this, because it seems nit picky - but if I notice it, then it is a thing. 

When he receives the ball in shotgun, he is nearly always leaning or moving slightly forward to meet the ball, then he is stopping his frwd momentum and kind of reversing and taking his drop as needed. 

It is a matter of tenths of a second, but it is something he can clean up. 

Has anyone else noticed this?  

No because we aren't psychotic enough to notice something like that.  :)

just kidding, I don't pay enough attention to notice something like this.

[BigPapaKain]

Accept defeat on a play and move on to the next one. I'm all for hitting the home run as often as possible but you've got to know when to fold em.

[CincyDog]

(02-17-2022, 05:03 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Accept defeat on a play and move on to the next one. I'm all for hitting the home run as often as possible but you've got to know when to fold em.

A faster TE would do wonders here. 

Trading Boyd for an Impact TE, to me, would be a wise move.  I know it sounds crazy, but the trade off would be worth it, IMO

[Oasis5055]

How good were the ability of manning and Brady as pocket passers (arm strength accuracy, football iq)

As good as manning was do people remember the amount of pre snap formation changes, audibles, misdirections and play action passes he used?

Did Brady ever use the same formation on 80-90 percent of his plays?
One play would be 1 back then 2 backs then the next 2 tight ends

Burrow needs to get over the comfort of this college system and grow and realize outsmarting, being unpredictable and confusing the defense is a big part of the greatest quarterbacks ever.

The difference is manning and Brady had very imaginative high football iq coordinators behind them

What’s scary is burrow has come within inches of a Super Bowl where the opposing coach said post game they knew what would be run based on formation and predictably

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-17-2022, 04:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: True, but how many free runners have seen as well?

A shit ton. I think with his style of play, 40ish would be a reasonable number....unless he gets even better at getting it out.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-17-2022, 04:42 PM)casear2727 Wrote: He was forced to guess pre-snap according to the film guys, he literally had time to throw to one receiver or throw it a way, just awful to be like that in the SB.

Yeah, very bad.....and we still almost made it happen.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-17-2022, 04:50 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I honestly believe by the end of the season Joe almost gave up going through his progressions. He was mentally out of it from all the sacks he took during the playoffs and rushing to get out of the pocket. There were a NUMBER of times during the SB where he missed 2nd and 3rd options that were wide open. He missed CJ on the last play of the game as well. 

Good point. The pressure was way worse in this game too.... at least on par with TN.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-17-2022, 05:08 PM)Oasis5055 Wrote: How good were the ability of manning and Brady as pocket passers (arm strength accuracy, football iq)

As good as manning was do people remember the amount of pre snap formation changes, audibles, misdirections and play action passes he used?

Did Brady ever use the same formation on 80-90 percent of his plays?
One play would be 1 back then 2 backs then the next 2 tight ends

Burrow needs to get over the comfort of this college system and grow and realize outsmarting, being unpredictable and confusing the defense is a big part of the greatest quarterbacks ever.

The difference is manning and Brady had very imaginative high football iq coordinators behind them

What’s scary is burrow has come within inches of a Super Bowl where the opposing coach said post game they knew what would be run based on formation and predictably

He actually said he knew Donald was going to make a play. He should have, he was about a yard offsides.

[TheFan]

(02-17-2022, 04:33 PM)MickMack Wrote: I was listening to a PFF podcast and they were discussing the number of pressures that result in sacks and how Burrow had a much higher number of pressures lead to sacks.  Josh Allen led the league coming in under 10% of pressures leading to sacks.  League average is in the 10% - 15% range.  With Burrow, 27% of pressures resulted in sacks.  https://youtu.be/fhH3uEWCZmM?t=3594

Burrow definitely should take more blame for the amount of sacks then some people here like to give him. That said, not all pressure is equal. I would imagine most QBs weren't under the immediate pressure Burrow received a lot of the time. Getting pressured in 1 second is different than getting pressured in 2.5 seconds. Both are considered "pressure" but are drastically different in what would be available to escape/throw to. 

[MickMack]

(02-17-2022, 05:48 PM)TheFan Wrote: Burrow definitely should take more blame for the amount of sacks then some people here like to give him. That said, not all pressure is equal. I would imagine most QBs weren't under the immediate pressure Burrow received a lot of the time. Getting pressured in 1 second is different than getting pressured in 2.5 seconds. Both are considered "pressure" but are drastically different in what would be available to escape/throw to. 

I get your point but when Burrow sits at nearly double the league average I think it's fair to attribute it largely to his style of play.  He likes to extend plays, which can lead to great things at times.  But it can also lead to really bad things with an offensive line like this.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Work on moving in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield. Way too often he completely turns around and moves even further from the LoS. Even if you're going to get sacked, it's better to get sacked for -5 yards than -12. Once you have your back to all your WRs, there's very little you can do. Plus it seems like sometimes he's reluctant to step up into the pocket and tries to escape to the side, sometimes directly into the pressure. Gifting a sack.

Also just accept that some plays you're best off getting rid of the ball by throwing it away. He had a couple instances in the Super Bowl even where he pump faked (including once where he pump faked twice) before taking a sack. If you have enough time to pump fake, you have enough time to throw it away and avoid the loss of yards.

And finally, work on learning to read defenses while not in the spread. Being able to have a RB or FB in blocking will sure help compared to so many empty backfields. Defenses also know immediately that it's a passing play in the spread because they only have to worry about Burrow running it. It doesn't keep the defenses honest.

[Housh]

This video tells me a lot.

https://youtu.be/Ay250KHyPYA

It’s a video of every time Burrow was sacked in the playoffs.


And i have to say we have a bigger Burrow problem than we think. The first 3 sacks of the video were Burrows fault. I haven’t finished the video yet but out of the 1st 4 sacks 3 of the 4 there was a running back WIDE OPEN.


Burrow needs to throw the checkdown. 70 sacks means your line is poor but i think Burrow could’ve shaved off maybe even 60% of the sacks by just throwing to the checkdown. That number sounds high i know but look at this video. Burrow needs to take way more credit for these sacks than the media is giving him. A LARGE percentage of the sacks were his fault. No o line can block for a guy that holds it too long. We could have 5 Witworths on the line and if Joe is gonna ignore the running back they’d give up sacks

[Housh]

(02-17-2022, 08:43 PM)Housh Wrote: This video tells me a lot.

https://youtu.be/Ay250KHyPYA

It’s a video of every time Burrow was sacked in the playoffs.


And i have to say we have a bigger Burrow problem than we think. The first 3 sacks of the video were Burrows fault. I haven’t finished the video yet but out of the 1st 4 sacks 3 of the 4 there was a running back WIDE OPEN.


Burrow needs to throw the checkdown. 70 sacks means your line is poor but i think Burrow could’ve shaved off maybe even 60% of the sacks by just throwing to the checkdown. That number sounds high i know but look at this video. Burrow needs to take way more credit for these sacks than the media is giving him. A LARGE percentage of the sacks were his fault. No o line can block for a guy that holds it too long. We could have 5 Witworths on the line and if Joe is gonna ignore the running back they’d give up sacks

Finished the video 60% was low. MOST the sacks were Burrows fault. Tom Brady behind this same exact line wouldn’t have been sacked as much. The Super Bowl sacks were really really bad. He had the RB open on literally all the sacks he took but the final play. But on that play he had Uzomah wide open.

I thought Burrow had a B- grade superbiwl but after seeing these sacks he had a C- game. He didn’t play well at all. This kinda scares me and it needs to be coached out of Burrow. He has savior syndrome at QB. He thinks he has to make “the throw” and carry his team when sometimes the best play is the dump it off and trust your guy to break a tackle. Burrow did not trust his teammates to break tackles. He wanted every single pass to be a big play. I think the o line deserves some apologies. They were bad but Burrow was 1/2 the problem

[MickMack]

(02-17-2022, 08:45 PM)Housh Wrote: Finished the video 60% was low. MOST the sacks were Burrows fault. Tom Brady behind this same exact line wouldn’t have been sacked as much. The Super Bowl sacks were really really bad. He had the RB open on literally all the sacks he took but the final play. But on that play he had Uzomah wide open.

I thought Burrow had a B- grade superbiwl but after seeing these sacks he had a C- game. He didn’t play well at all. This kinda scares me and it needs to be coached out of Burrow. He has savior syndrome at QB. He thinks he has to make “the throw” and carry his team when sometimes the best play is the dump it off and trust your guy to break a tackle. Burrow did not trust his teammates to break tackles. He wanted every single pass to be a big play. I think the o line deserves some apologies. They were bad but Burrow was 1/2 the problem

He was so used to getting it at LSU.  It's going to be a hard tendency to break.  But hopefully major knee surgery, an injury to the other knee and hitting the ground 70 times this season will cause him to re-evaluate.

[Nicomo Cosca]

I like the idea of dividing up sack credit by pass blocking and QB. Using the same sack expectations based on the OL survival curves.

Burrow would have had roughly 45 sacks at league average sack rate. He had 70. This analysis puts an extra 12 on his blocking and 13 on him. pic.twitter.com/NMFtGjRVkO

— Kevin Cole (@KevinColePFF) February 17, 2022

I’ve said over and over that Burrow is always going to be one of the most sacked QB’s in the league. It’s just the style he plays. He definitely needs to clean that up to some extent, but it’s a fine line. You don’t want to take too much of the playmaker out of him. It’s part of what makes him special.

[Gdale_Bengal]

They couldn’t even run the full offense for the last part of the year because Burrow didn’t have enough time to scan the field. Everyone can say “Burrow missed a wide open Boyd.” Hell, on the first series in the Super Bowl Higgins was open on 4th and 1 but Burrow never took his eyes off Chase.

Why? Burrow had to be a one read then throw it QB, and we all know Burrow isn’t that kind of QB. Some plays had to be ran to get the receivers deep enough to convert, but he didn’t have enough time for those to develop, he had pressure literally in his face after completing his drop.

I’d like to see him throw it away a little more. But, honestly, the O line handicapped him too badly for Burrow to do Burrow things.