Worth Moving Hopkins Back to OG?

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(03-02-2022, 06:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Just so I'm not misinterpreting, you're saying the Bengals should allow Hill and Ogunjobi to walk and draft a DT in Rd 1 to be the starter next to Reader, correct?

If that is what it takes to give Burrow good protection so be it.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-02-2022, 08:04 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: If that is what it takes to give Burrow good protection so be it.

We need to bring back BJ Hill at least though man. We can do this and still get the OL fortified I am sure of it.

Giving Jessie Bates a big extension though? I don't know about it.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-02-2022, 08:04 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: If that is what it takes to give Burrow good protection so be it.

I can be ok with that approach.
I've taken a similar stance in some of the mocks I've posted where I've been willing to move on from Bates or Boyd and taking a player in Rd 1/2 to start in their places. Yea, it would not be fun to lose someone like that, but if it helps allow more money to put toward protecting Burrow, I'm ok with it.

What DTs likely there at 31 would you feel are equipped to start immediately and will provide good pass rush?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-02-2022, 08:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I can be ok with that approach.
I've taken a similar stance in some of the mocks I've posted where I've been willing to move on from Bates or Boyd and taking a player in Rd 1/2 to start in their places. Yea, it would not be fun to lose someone like that, but if it helps allow more money to put toward protecting Burrow, I'm ok with it.

What DTs likely there at 31 would you feel are equipped to start immediately and will provide good pass rush?

I know you weren't asking me Ocho but 2 guys I really like are Travis Jones DT UCONN and Devonte Wyatt DT Georgia.

Really like Jones size and athleticism to go along with his pass rushing strength, big dude that will cause problems.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(03-02-2022, 08:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I can be ok with that approach.
I've taken a similar stance in some of the mocks I've posted where I've been willing to move on from Bates or Boyd and taking a player in Rd 1/2 to start in their places. Yea, it would not be fun to lose someone like that, but if it helps allow more money to put toward protecting Burrow, I'm ok with it.

What DTs likely there at 31 would you feel are equipped to start immediately and will provide good pass rush?

BJ Hill would sting its not like he is a pro bowler Ogjunobi has quite the injury history. Waynes was never needed this year even when healthy, So we are not losing anything related to the SB team productive besides Hill. 

[007BengalsFan]

Hopkins is a decent pass blocker but horrible in the run. Why would we keep him and his $7.1M salary when we can get someone else at the same price who can pass block just as good as Hopkins and can run block much better?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-02-2022, 11:19 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Was there some interview or something that gave you that impression?

I would assume/hope the Bengals asked questions with all the draft picks leading up to the draft to ask them about their coaching style preference, how they best learn, etc.

The way he is immediately behind Jordan, then Smith, then Adeniji....The coaching staff seems to HATE guys that don't simply take to coaching...that is, do things their own way.  He pancakes one of the biggest DTs in the league, and had some solid PFF rankings early, but was always moved behind the other guys that, frankly, we have not really seen the flashes.  

Add all that up and you have mental (attitude) and consistency (technique) issues.  I don't see any other way to rationalize it.  

[*ochocincos*]

(03-03-2022, 12:48 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Hopkins is a decent pass blocker but horrible in the run.  Why would we keep him and his $7.1M salary when we can get someone else at the same price who can pass block just as good as Hopkins and can run block much better?

Who are some people who can pass block as good or better than Hopkins, run block much better, and cost $7 mill or less APY?
Also, what would be your metric(s) for determining that?

[*ochocincos*]

(03-03-2022, 09:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The way he is immediately behind Jordan, then Smith, then Adeniji....The coaching staff seems to HATE guys that don't simply take to coaching...that is, do things their own way.  He pancakes one of the biggest DTs in the league, and had some solid PFF rankings early, but was always moved behind the other guys that, frankly, we have not really seen the flashes.  

Add all that up and you have mental (attitude) and consistency (technique) issues.  I don't see any other way to rationalize it.  

What do you mean behind Jordan, then Smith, then Adeniji?

Carman was behind Jordan in the offseason because Jordan was the incumbent starter and Carman was the newly-drafted rookie.
If the Bengals didn't feel at least somewhat confident in Carman, they would have likely kept Jordan.

I don't see Carman being behind Smith at all.
In fact, I think Smith is the low man on the totem pole.
Smith was active all of two games last year, starting only the final game vs CLE where the Bengals put in backups.
He only had 50 snaps the regular season and only 12 in the postseason.

We've already heard from coaches before why Adeniji was getting starter reps over Carman.
It was due to consistency.
I'm not sure what attitude problems you've seen/heard, but I haven't seen any reports of that.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2022, 11:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: What do you mean behind Jordan, then Smith, then Adeniji?

Carman was behind Jordan in the offseason because Jordan was the incumbent starter and Carman was the newly-drafted rookie.
If the Bengals didn't feel at least somewhat confident in Carman, they would have likely kept Jordan.

I don't see Carman being behind Smith at all.
In fact, I think Smith is the low man on the totem pole.
Smith was active all of two games last year, starting only the final game vs CLE where the Bengals put in backups.
He only had 50 snaps the regular season and only 12 in the postseason.

We've already heard from coaches before why Adeniji was getting starter reps over Carman.
It was due to consistency.
I'm not sure what attitude problems you've seen/heard, but I haven't seen any reports of that.

These are my thoughts on Carman as well. He just needs to get more consistent with his hand placement.

Maybe having him compete at LG will help as he seems much more comfortable on the left side.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-03-2022, 11:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: What do you mean behind Jordan, then Smith, then Adeniji?

Carman was behind Jordan in the offseason because Jordan was the incumbent starter and Carman was the newly-drafted rookie.
If the Bengals didn't feel at least somewhat confident in Carman, they would have likely kept Jordan.

I don't see Carman being behind Smith at all.
In fact, I think Smith is the low man on the totem pole.
Smith was active all of two games last year, starting only the final game vs CLE where the Bengals put in backups.
He only had 50 snaps the regular season and only 12 in the postseason.

We've already heard from coaches before why Adeniji was getting starter reps over Carman.
It was due to consistency.
I'm not sure what attitude problems you've seen/heard, but I haven't seen any reports of that.

Incorrect on Smith.  He was poised to take over for Carman before an injury derailed his season.  I don't have the article, but that happened.  And they were both rookies, and Smith was drafted behind Carman.

I don't know that it was attitude, but it was something in his approach that he chose to be out of shape and perhaps believe the job was his from the word go. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2022, 03:13 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Incorrect on Smith.  He was poised to take over for Carman before an injury derailed his season.  I don't have the article, but that happened.  And they were both rookies, and Smith was drafted behind Carman.

I don't know that it was attitude, but it was something in his approach that he chose to be out of shape and perhaps believe the job was his from the word go. 

Carman being out of shape was a problem no doubt. Didn't help him at all and he got put in the dog house early cause of it.

D'Ante was looking really good in the Preseason before the injury and he was playing LG. What is crazy is I always thought of 
D'Ante Smith as more of an OT, I don't know if he plays on the right side or not, but if he can D'Ante has nice size and longer 
arms than Carman. He could be a thought at RT in the future, D'Ante came along much faster than I thought he would as I 
always thought of him as a starter years down the road once he grew into his body.

Between these 2 I like our future depth at the very least. Hand placement is Carman's problem along with inconsistency, not 
attitude though. Never heard that, he just screwed up and came in out of shape in TC last year, big mistake and it set him back.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-03-2022, 03:13 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Incorrect on Smith.  He was poised to take over for Carman before an injury derailed his season.  I don't have the article, but that happened.  And they were both rookies, and Smith was drafted behind Carman.

I don't know that it was attitude, but it was something in his approach that he chose to be out of shape and perhaps believe the job was his from the word go. 

He was also coming back from his back surgery though, right?
I wouldn't really be surprised if he came in more out of shape since he really couldn't do much while recovering.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2022, 03:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He was also coming back from his back surgery though, right?
I wouldn't really be surprised if he came in more out of shape since he really couldn't do much while recovering.

Correct.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-03-2022, 03:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Carman being out of shape was a problem no doubt. Didn't help him at all and he got put in the dog house early cause of it.

D'Ante was looking really good in the Preseason before the injury and he was playing LG. What is crazy is I always thought of 
D'Ante Smith as more of an OT, I don't know if he plays on the right side or not, but if he can D'Ante has nice size and longer 
arms than Carman. He could be a thought at RT in the future, D'Ante came along much faster than I thought he would as I 
always thought of him as a starter years down the road once he grew into his body.

Between these 2 I like our future depth at the very least. Hand placement is Carman's problem along with inconsistency, not 
attitude though. Never heard that, he just screwed up and came in out of shape in TC last year, big mistake and it set him back.

100% agree on Smith being more of an OT.  I just think the coaches were trying to get the best 5 out there, and they were struggling at OG.  I feel the same way about Adeniji.

Carman is a bit more of a mystery.   Sure, he played LT in college, but he is built more like an OG.  He seemed to get his conditioning and play fairly well around week 5 if memory serves, but then he struggled big time (according to PFF...I never thought he would grade as low as he did, though). 

They are all very young and still have some potential, but for this season as close as the team was, I would feel iffy if more than one of them ended up starting.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-03-2022, 03:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He was also coming back from his back surgery though, right?
I wouldn't really be surprised if he came in more out of shape since he really couldn't do much while recovering.

I thought the same thing...and then he seemed to get his conditioning and played fairly well....then he fell off a cliff.  It was just such an odd decline.  I know he faced some top talent in the playoffs, but after acquitting himself so well against the steelers interior....it was just odd. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-08-2022, 08:51 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: 100% agree on Smith being more of an OT.  I just think the coaches were trying to get the best 5 out there, and they were struggling at OG.  I feel the same way about Adeniji.

Carman is a bit more of a mystery.   Sure, he played LT in college, but he is built more like an OG.  He seemed to get his conditioning and play fairly well around week 5 if memory serves, but then he struggled big time (according to PFF...I never thought he would grade as low as he did, though). 

They are all very young and still have some potential, but for this season as close as the team was, I would feel iffy if more than one of them ended up starting.  

The thing is both Spain and Carman seem much better at LG and there is a reason for this. Some OL like one side over the 
other and when you have played on the left side most all of your career it is really tough to move to the right and especially 
to go from Tackle to Guard while doing it. I think both the coaches and Spain being the starting LG hindered Carman.

I truly think if we have Carman just start at LG this year and keep him there we will see the growth we want.

(03-08-2022, 08:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I thought the same thing...and then he seemed to get his conditioning and played fairly well....then he fell off a cliff.  It was just such an odd decline.  I know he faced some top talent in the playoffs, but after acquitting himself so well against the steelers interior....it was just odd. 

It was odd. Carman made that monster block against the Ravens in the first game too that sealed it on the long Perine TD.

He made numerous big blocks last year that just made him stand out in a great way and then he would get inconsistent 
again in pass protection cause of his hand placement playing on the right side was giving him trouble. Had a few more 
penalties than Adeniji too which must of been the only reason for Adeniji to start.

Still I didn't like it. I will take a few more penalties over a RG that just consistently gets pushed back all the damn time.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-08-2022, 03:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The thing is both Spain and Carman seem much better at LG and there is a reason for this. Some OL like one side over the 
other and when you have played on the left side most all of your career it is really tough to move to the right and especially 
to go from Tackle to Guard while doing it. I think both the coaches and Spain being the starting LG hindered Carman.

I truly think if we have Carman just start at LG this year and keep him there we will see the growth we want.


It was odd. Carman made that monster block against the Ravens in the first game too that sealed it on the long Perine TD.

He made numerous big blocks last year that just made him stand out in a great way and then he would get inconsistent 
again in pass protection cause of his hand placement playing on the right side was giving him trouble. Had a few more 
penalties than Adeniji too which must of been the only reason for Adeniji to start.

Still I didn't like it. I will take a few more penalties over a RG that just consistently gets pushed back all the damn time.

I do wonder if Carman feels more comfortable with hand placement, feet, and shuffling from the left side compared to right.
I know that most people say an OG should no issues playing at either LG or RG, but Carman specifically might find it easier on the left.

[007BengalsFan]

(03-03-2022, 11:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Who are some people who can pass block as good or better than Hopkins, run block much better, and cost $7 mill or less APY?
Also, what would be your metric(s) for determining that?

Ben Jones.  As for metrics the one most people talk about are PFF grades.  Last I saw Jones had a 70+ pass grade and 80+ run grade with an overall grade about 30 points higher than Hopkins.  Jones is predicted to make 6.67 million per year which is close to Hopkins 7.1 million/6 million cap hit this year.  Hopkins gave up 4 sacks in 928 snaps, Jone gave up only 1 sack in 1160 snaps