Easy answer to our short yardage probems.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-28-2022, 03:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: They had a single high S.  

I'm not conceding this is a "run blitz" by a long shot, but it doesn't matter if it is or isn't for this discussion.

The Rams can't play this alignment with the QB under C.  Know why?

Look at it presnap.  One DT is lined up on the C's outside shoulder and the other is lined up on the RG's outside shoulder.  All the QB has to do is goose the C and stick it in the A gap for an easy 1st down.  The Rams have to check to something else with the QB under C.  


Not to mention, the Bengals can't run a reasonable facsimile of their play due to the jetsweep motion of Boyd and reverse action of CJ interfering with Burrow trying to get the handoff to Perrine.  

All "anyone" has to do is go back to the Raiders playoff game and watch the play where Chase has an end around. They started off in shotgun with the d-ends spread out for a pass rush. Burrow came up under center and everyone on defense packed it in tight to play the run and on the snap they pitched it to Chase for a first down. 

That obviously proves that the defense adjusts due to the offensive alignment. 

I don't know why there has to be hundreds of posts about something that should be settled in about 10. Wait, yes it do...

[BFritz21]

(02-28-2022, 11:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: All "anyone" has to do is go back to the Raiders playoff game and watch the play where Chase has an end around. They started off in shotgun with the d-ends spread out for a pass rush. Burrow came up under center and everyone on defense packed it in tight to play the run and on the snap they pitched it to Chase for a first down. 

That obviously proves that the defense adjusts due to the offensive alignment. 

I don't know why there has to be hundreds of posts about something that should be settled in about 10. Wait, yes it do...

How would they have played it differently if Burrow was under center?

They attacked the line at the snap, meaning that Perine would have had a better shot if he hadn't paused to get the handoff and had just run straight at the line.

[Whatever]

(02-28-2022, 11:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: All "anyone" has to do is go back to the Raiders playoff game and watch the play where Chase has an end around. They started off in shotgun with the d-ends spread out for a pass rush. Burrow came up under center and everyone on defense packed it in tight to play the run and on the snap they pitched it to Chase for a first down. 

That obviously proves that the defense adjusts due to the offensive alignment. 

I don't know why there has to be hundreds of posts about something that should be settled in about 10. Wait, yes it do...

It's a strange discussion just because all the data and the film points to them doing the correct thing.  

I'll freely admit that I was incorrect after the game in saying Mixon should have been in the game.  It's frankly disheartening that a journeyman like Perrine is a better short yardage RB than a $12 mil a year back like Mixon.  

Various people have pushed for Burrow to be under C more throughout the year despite his personal preference and the fact that the offense was successful with a mediocre OL that went in the toilet when Reiff went down.  The only thing I can figure is most folks that played football at some level played in offense that was primarily run from under C like the I-form, wishbone, or single wing.  That's what they know, they have a comfort level with it, they had success and/or watched their opponents have success with it, and it's what they want to see.  

[SunsetBengal]

(03-01-2022, 02:14 AM)Whatever Wrote:  The only thing I can figure is most folks that played football at some level played in offense that was primarily run from under C like the I-form, wishbone, or single wing.  That's what they know, they have a comfort level with it, they had success and/or watched their opponents have success with it, and it's what they want to see.  

I wouldn't care if they lined up in the "lonesome polecat" all game long, as long as the blocking was effective and it kept moving the ball and putting points on the board.

My whole point (along with many others') is that when you need a yard, because in this case it was the difference between having a chance to win the championship or lose the game, you have to have enough ass to move the line for that one yard.  While reading through the arguments for and against "we should have lined up under center" has been entertaining at moments, and also enough to make one want to jab forks into their eyes at others, it's all been a rabbit hole leading away from the real point that we need more push on the interior OL.

[fredtoast]

(03-01-2022, 12:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: How would they have played it differently if Burrow was under center?

LBs move up into gaps at LOS pre-snap.

I have only told you this three times.

Having some trouble remembering for some reason? 

[TecmoBengals]

(02-28-2022, 11:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: All "anyone" has to do is go back to the Raiders playoff game and watch the play where Chase has an end around. They started off in shotgun with the d-ends spread out for a pass rush. Burrow came up under center and everyone on defense packed it in tight to play the run and on the snap they pitched it to Chase for a first down. 

That obviously proves that the defense adjusts due to the offensive alignment. 

I don't know why there has to be hundreds of posts about something that should be settled in about 10. Wait, yes it do...

Welcome to the internet, right? 

[BFritz21]

(03-01-2022, 10:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: LBs move up into gaps at LOS pre-snap.

I have only told you this three times.

Having some trouble remembering for some reason? 

You act like you know what the defensive call was and it's HILARIOUS!  

Backers moving into the gaps makes it easier to block them down or out and opens holes! 

I ALSO LOVE HOW YOU TAKE A SHOT AT ME LIKE MY BRAIN INJURY MAKES ME FORGET THINGS WHEN SOMEONE, THAT YOU CONSIDER MENTALLY INFERIOR, IS MAKING YOU LOOK STUPID OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

[SunsetBengal]

(02-28-2022, 12:24 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The one linebacker blitzes immediately and you can tell it's a run blitz

(03-01-2022, 11:42 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: You act like you know what the defensive call was and it's HILARIOUS!  

Brad, tell me something, please.  When you said the bolded part in the first quote of yours, had you just gotten off the phone with Raheem Morris to in fact know that he had called a run blitz on that play?

[BFritz21]

(03-01-2022, 12:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Brad, tell me something, please.  When you said the bolded part in the first quote of yours, had you just gotten off the phone with Raheem Morris to in fact know that he had called a run blitz on that play?

No but it's obvious by what he did pre and post-snap. I didn't assume what the defense would do in a different situation, like Fred did.

See the difference?

[SunsetBengal]

(03-01-2022, 12:07 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: No but it's obvious by what he did pre and post-snap. I didn't assume what the defense would do in a different situation, like Fred did.

See the difference?

Not really.  As it reads, it appears like it's alright when you assume what the call was supposed to be, but cannot possibly be the case when someone else does the same.  So, either both are right or both are wrong.  Can't pick and choose who can assume they "knew the call".

[BFritz21]

(03-01-2022, 12:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not really.  As it reads, it appears like it's alright when you assume what the call was supposed to be, but cannot possibly be the case when someone else does the same.  So, either both are right or both are wrong.  Can't pick and choose who can assume they "knew the call".

The linebacker rushed up to the line when he thought the snap was coming and blitzed without pause.

What other call could it have been?

[SunsetBengal]

(03-01-2022, 12:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The linebacker rushed up to the line when he thought the snap was coming and blitzed without pause.

What other call could it have been?

Hard to say what the actual call was, as it's common for many players to deviate from the play called if they "see something", or if certain established ques happen to trigger a change from called play.  So, short of hearing the breakdown from Rams DC Raheem Morris, or from the player in question, it's tough to say what the original call was.  Though it does appear that the Rams were set for a hard blitz, no matter if the play was a run or a pass.

[BFritz21]

(03-01-2022, 12:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hard to say what the actual call was, as it's common for many players to deviate from the play called if they "see something", or if certain established ques happen to trigger a change from called play.  So, short of hearing the breakdown from Rams DC Raheem Morris, or from the player in question, it's tough to say what the original call was.  Though it does appear that the Rams were set for a hard blitz, no matter if the play was a run or a pass.

Ok, then it still would have been beneficial to have Perine with a running start towards the line and been more beneficial to have Burrow under center.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-01-2022, 01:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Ok, then it still would have been beneficial to have Perine with a running start towards the line and been more beneficial to have Burrow under center.

I don't know, man.  As pointed out previously in this very thread, the statistics speak otherwise.  I mean, in a perfect world you'd like to see them line up in a power-I, hand the ball off, daring anyone to stop them.  However, it was more than obvious this past season that the Bengals simply did not have the horses up front to execute that style of play.

[BFritz21]

(03-01-2022, 01:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't know, man.  As pointed out previously in this very thread, the statistics speak otherwise.  I mean, in a perfect world you'd like to see them line up in a power-I, hand the ball off, daring anyone to stop them.  However, it was more than obvious this past season that the Bengals simply did not have the horses up front to execute that style of play.

If we didn't have the line, then it's better to at least hand it to the back running forward to get some momentum.

Doesn't even have to be power-I, but giving it to him at a stand-still gives the defense time to get a push on our shitty offensive line.

Bottom line is he would have hit the line a split second faster, which would have gotten him more distance on the field, and he only came up a little bit short.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-01-2022, 01:22 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If we didn't have the line, then it's better to at least hand it to the back running forward to get some momentum.

Doesn't even have to be power-I, but giving it to him at a stand-still gives the defense time to get a push on our shitty offensive line.

Bottom line is he would have hit the line a split second faster, which would have gotten him more distance on the field, and he only came up a little bit short.

Would it have been better, or is that just your opinion?  The data from the season clearly showed that the Bengals offense was much more effective out of shotgun in that situation than under center.

As for giving the RB the ball from shotgun giving the DL and advantage?  I don't know about that, either.  If a rushing play is called, the OL is still supposed to be the aggressors, and move their opponents off of the ball, same as when lined up under center.

It wasn't a play call that failed the Bengals, it was a failure to execute on the line of scrimmage.  If it truly were shoddy play calling, we'd have 20+ current threads on here about how Zac Tayor or Brian Callahan needs to be replaced, rather than the large number of threads focused on how the Bengals can/should improve the offensive line.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-01-2022, 09:15 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wouldn't care if they lined up in the "lonesome polecat" all game long, as long as the blocking was effective and it kept moving the ball and putting points on the board.

My whole point (along with many others') is that when you need a yard, because in this case it was the difference between having a chance to win the championship or lose the game, you have to have enough ass to move the line for that one yard.  While reading through the arguments for and against "we should have lined up under center" has been entertaining at moments, and also enough to make one want to jab forks into their eyes at others, it's all been a rabbit hole leading away from the real point that we need more push on the interior OL.

Lonesome polecat.....I haven't heard that in over thirty years...lol. Gotta rep that one!

[Whatever]

(03-01-2022, 12:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The linebacker rushed up to the line when he thought the snap was coming and blitzed without pause.

What other call could it have been?

If it's a run blitz, why are they blitzing a LB in the weakside B gap and leaving the strong side A gap wide open in a short yardage situation?  

Look at what the blitz does as if it was a pass play.  The RDE is lined up outside Jonah's left shoulder.  The LB blitzes the B gap between Jonah and Spain.  DT is in the A gap between Spain and Hopkins.  Donald is in the B gap between Adeniji and Prince.  Miller is lined up on Prince's outside shoulder.  The blitzing LB forces a choice.  If Hopkins tries to help Adeniji with Donald, Spain has to take the DT in the weakside A gap.  Jonah can't block both the RDE and the blitzer, so the Rams get a free rusher.  The other option is Hopkins blocks the DT, Spain the blitzer, and Jonah the RDE and Donald is one on one with Adeniji.  This falls in line with numerous film breakdowns that discussed the Bengals keeping Donald in check during the first half with the double team, but the Rams adjusted in the second half to get Donald one on one with Adeniji.

[fredtoast]

(03-01-2022, 01:22 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If we didn't have the line, then it's better to at least hand it to the back running forward to get some momentum.

Doesn't even have to be power-I, but giving it to him at a stand-still gives the defense time to get a push on our shitty offensive line.

Bottom line is he would have hit the line a split second faster, which would have gotten him more distance on the field, and he only came up a little bit short.

Just curious, Brad, but what is your theory regarding why the Bengali were more successful running the ball in short yardage situations from the shotgun. You know a lot about football. How do you explain it.

[higgy100]

(03-01-2022, 01:22 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If we didn't have the line, then it's better to at least hand it to the back running forward to get some momentum.

Doesn't even have to be power-I, but giving it to him at a stand-still gives the defense time to get a push on our shitty offensive line.

Bottom line is he would have hit the line a split second faster, which would have gotten him more distance on the field, and he only came up a little bit short.

And those deep pitches to the RB 7 yards behind the LOS on 3rd/4th and short are also mesmerizing with a subpar OL. There's a whole lot of responsibility in the blocking scheme on that type of running play.