(03-02-2022, 06:52 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I think Carman has the potential to do very well at RG. He looked pretty good when given a chance. I dont know however if we can count on him given his back problems. I mean he had back surgery before the draft last year, we still picked him and then he still had troubles with his back this year. When you miss the Super Bowl because you have a bad back that you have already had surgery on, that's not a good sign.
Bengals have been notorious for taking injured players at draft time, expecting/hoping their injury problems will be behind them and they get a "steal" because the player dropped due to the injury recovery at the time.
In a lot of cases, those gambles haven't panned out.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. If he can turn this into a playoff appearance, it will be impressive.
(03-02-2022, 06:39 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: I think they Re-sign Spain.I’m okay with bringing Hopkins back,so there’s that.2 down,3 to go.Now they dial in on a top 5 LT free agent,and move Jonah Williams to RT.Now aquire top 5 free agent RG.Problem Solved.
O-line problem solved, but spending $30+ million plus on 2 free agents is going to leave holes elsewhere.
We have 4 other starters who are free agents (FS, DT, CB, TE) and 2 DTs who played about half of the snaps (Hill, Tupou)
(03-02-2022, 06:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals have been notorious for taking injured players at draft time, expecting/hoping their injury problems are behind them and they get a "steal" because the player dropped due to the injury recovery at the time.
In a lot of cases, those gambles haven't panned out.
It is not just about getting a "steal". It is about the best players in the draft suffering injuries. If you eliminate all players recovering from injury you eliminate a lot of the best players.
Myles Garrett was recovering from an injury when the Browns selected him #1 overall. Anthony Munoz had 2 knee surgeries in college.
(03-02-2022, 07:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not just about getting a "steal". It is about the best players in the draft suffering injuries. If you eliminate all players recovering from injury you eliminate a lot of the best players.
Myles Garrett was recovering from an injury when the Browns selected him #1 overall. Anthony Munoz had 2 knee surgeries in college.
Yes I understand that.
All I'm saying is they've had some players fall to them who had been recovering from injury/surgery, and they likely expected/hoped the player wouldn't continue to have problems beyond this initial recovery time.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. If he can turn this into a playoff appearance, it will be impressive.
(03-02-2022, 06:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals have been notorious for taking injured players at draft time, expecting/hoping their injury problems are behind them and they get a "steal" because the player dropped due to the injury recovery at the time.
In a lot of cases, those gambles haven't panned out.
I can understand taking guys that have something like an injured knee as lots of guys come back from those type injuries. Back injuries on the other hand, I just dont know. It seems to me most people that battle back injuries have lingering issues with their back. I dont know of too many people that have a back surgery and afterward say they are 100%. If I were guessing, Im going to guess this will be a long term issue with Carman.
(03-02-2022, 05:34 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I have read rumors of a chronic ankle condition/injury for reiff as well. I don’t know if he is retiring, considering retiring or anything else, such as signing on as a backup
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I sure don't like that rumor. Makes me want to go in another direction even if Reiff is a great guy and a leader.
We need a RT that can play on game day. Get Armstead, Morgan Moses, Trent Brown or Duane Brown.
Or trade for Tunsil and put Jonah at RT.
(03-02-2022, 06:04 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Reading some of these responses gets me nervous for next year and reminds me of how deep a hole Bengals are at significantly improving the OL.
Passing on Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith hurts even more.
My concern is that the FO has tried to fix the OL for years via draft and I think the talent available in FA will be costly.
My guess with some trepidation is:
LT Williams
LG Laken Tomlinson
C Jensen
RG Zion Johnson/Carman
RT D' Ante Smith/Max Mitchell/Prince
Hopkins is released.
I could live with this as long as D'Ante or Max develop quickly at RT, that is the question with that OL.
(03-02-2022, 06:39 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I absolutely do not want Spain back under any cirmcumstance. When he had to face good D lines in the playoffs he was horrible and let the team down. Bengals last play of the Super Bowl and Burrow needs just a little time to make that throw on 4th down. Spain whiffed again like he had done all of the playoffs. Game Over. Is this they type of player we want to rely on next season on the O-line? Get rid of him and his post season 46.1 PFF. Its crazy to think Spain is predicted to make near 5 million per year on his next contract when the Bengals could sign Conner Williams for just a little more at 6.7 million per year.
At Center Hopkins is going to make 7.1 million with a cap hit of about 6 million. There is no reason to keep Hopkins when you could get Bozeman and Jones for similar money and Karras for less.
Both Spain and Hopkins should be replaced as it wouldnt cost the team much more to upgrade those spots vs keeping Spain and Hopkins.
Good points, I want guys that play their hardest against the best competition. It almost seemed like Spain was giving up
when he played some of those guys like Simmons and Donald. Hopkins is spendy for what he brings and he is a bad run
blocker. I like our young guys but they need to develop behind some studs.
Bring in Bozeman, Corbett and one of the OT's we have been speaking about and Draft a Guard early to compete with
Carman at LG would be my plan. Really need a new look OL after that postseason we just witnessed.
(03-02-2022, 07:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: O-line problem solved, but spending $30+ million plus on 2 free agents is going to leave holes elsewhere.
We have 4 other starters who are free agents (FS, DT, CB, TE) and 2 DTs who played about half of the snaps (Hill, Tupou)
That’s the whole point here,is to solve the OL problem regardless of the 30+ million.Nothing else,at this point,should really matter,as long as they can make it work and stay under the cap.My prediction would be,that if the Bengals go into next season with a top 5 OL,and everything else would be virtually the same,that they would make their second straight appearance to the Super Bowl.That’s just how essential I think an Elite OL is for this team.
(03-02-2022, 07:57 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: That’s the whole point here,is to solve the OL problem regardless of the 30+ million.Nothing else,at this point,should really matter,as long as they can make it work and stay under the cap.My prediction would be,that if the Bengals go into next season with a top 5 OL,and everything else would be virtually the same,that they would make their second straight appearance to the Super Bowl.That’s just how essential I think an Elite OL is for this team.
I agree, that is why I am not against letting Bates go to do so if he wants too much.
We can bring back everyone else and still upgrade the OL to a top 5 OL if we make a combination of these moves.
A Tunsil trade seems to be in the cards from what I am hearing from Duke or at least something alike. We will see.
(03-02-2022, 07:57 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: That’s the whole point here,is to solve the OL problem regardless of the 30+ million.Nothing else,at this point,should really matter,as long as they can make it work and stay under the cap.My prediction would be,that if the Bengals go into next season with a top 5 OL,and everything else would be virtually the same,that they would make their second straight appearance to the Super Bowl.That’s just how essential I think an Elite OL is for this team.
We already have the best set of skill position players in the league. You can't pay everyone. You can't have everything. If Burrow can't light up the league with Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and Uzo (or whoever we sign) plus an average O-line then we need a new offensive coordinator.
Obviously, we need to improve the O-line. No one disagrees with that. But with all the other talent we have I don't see why an elite O-line is more essential than defense. We are losing 3 starters (DT, FS, CB) and 2 DTs who played about half of the snaps (Hill, Tupou). And we don't have any young hot prospects on the team ready to step into any of those starting roles.
(03-02-2022, 07:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I sure don't like that rumor. Makes me want to go in another direction even if Reiff is a great guy and a leader.
We need a RT that can play on game day. Get Armstead, Morgan Moses, Trent Brown or Duane Brown.
Or trade for Tunsil and put Jonah at RT.
Doesn't have to be Tunsil, but I agree with the idea of trading for a proven guy. Find a team that is another year or two away and get a proven guy for pick 31 and even a future pick. Especially if you can get a guy that isn't going to break the bank for a season or two.
(03-02-2022, 08:30 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Doesn't have to be Tunsil, but I agree with the idea of trading for a proven guy. Find a team that is another year or two away and get a proven guy for pick 31 and even a future pick. Especially if you can get a guy that isn't going to break the bank for a season or two.
True, Tunsil is just an example and the LT I have heard of being mentioned with the Bengals.
All for trading pick 31 for a proven vet OT especially a young one.
(03-02-2022, 03:17 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im surprised with many of these takes. People are ok with bringing Spain back? People prefer to start a brand new rookie at OT that low in the draft knowing we have drafted only ONE decent starter in the last 10 years?
If the Bengals are serious about winning and protecting Joe we should see a new RT, RG, and C. Jonah at LT. Allow a competition with Carmen, guys on the team and draft picks for that LG spot. Carmen's stats at LG are tremendously better than at RG (disclaimer: he only played 25% of his snaps at LG)
I think Jensen would be a game changer at Center, we havent had a real captain on the line since Braham and Jensen brings a mean streak. Bozeman would be my 2nd choice.
Tomlinson is my #1 at Guard, followed by Corbett, Cappa then Daniels. If they are deemed too expensive Im good with Conner Williams.
Trent Brown would be my choice at RT, followed by Moses. If we need a cost saver either Ifedi or Cornelius Lucas would be a good bridge gap until we can develop a rookie or pick up a better one next season.
High end of these options with Jensen would be: Tomlinson-Corbett-Cappa-Daniels/Brown-Moses - less than 32M and the low end with Williams/Lucas 23-25M. Any combination between these groups I will be fine with.
Any thing less than upgrading 3/5ths of this horrendous line would reveal that this season was simply an aberration in which the players simply outperformed the front office and all the new season ticket holders should demand a refund.
This right here is what we need. I can’t believe people want Spain, Hopkins, and even Carmen out there. Also, people want a late first round draft pick starting. No way! Seen this way to many times. I want 4 new lineman & it can be done. Chiefs had no money last year & was still able to sign their own + get 4 new oline. It’s time to stop messing around or hoping on this or that. Joe needs it now. We can get Jensen/Bozeman C, Tomlinson/Norwell LG, Daniels/Corbett RG, & Brown/Moses RT. They all don’t have to be all pro or pro bowlers. They all just need to be solid. This would be my first priority before any thing else gets done. It is all possible & needs to happen.
(03-02-2022, 05:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is the first I have heard of that rumor Casear. Maybe Reiff really does have a degenerative ankle if true.
I think any of Armstead, Morgan Moses or Trent Brown would be an upgrade anyways.
James Rapien just repeated it again on the BengalsTalk podcast tonight... I've heard it multiple times but it sounds like Soonerpeace knows different?
(03-02-2022, 06:52 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I think Carman has the potential to do very well at RG. He looked pretty good when given a chance. I dont know however if we can count on him given his back problems. I mean he had back surgery before the draft last year, we still picked him and then he still had troubles with his back this year. When you miss the Super Bowl because you have a bad back that you have already had surgery on, that's not a good sign.
You mean Left Guard... he was terrible at Right Guard, his metrics were way better on the left and that is the side he has always played so it makes sense.
(03-02-2022, 09:01 PM)casear2727 Wrote: James Rapien just repeated it again on the BengalsTalk podcast tonight... I've heard it multiple times but it sounds like Soonerpeace knows different?
I don't know, I just told him again about it.
Sure stands out to me when I hear things like this and I move on to other options and I liked Reiff a lot.
(03-02-2022, 09:06 PM)casear2727 Wrote: You mean Left Guard... he was terrible at Right Guard, his metrics were way better on the left and that is the side he has always played so it makes sense.
True, Carman filled in for Spain in our first Chiefs game when we won the Division and played much better than on the right side.
(03-02-2022, 08:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We already have the best set of skill position players in the league. You can't pay everyone. You can't have everything. If Burrow can't light up the league with Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and Uzo (or whoever we sign) plus an average O-line then we need a new offensive coordinator.
Obviously, we need to improve the O-line. No one disagrees with that. But with all the other talent we have I don't see why an elite O-line is more essential than defense. We are losing 3 starters (DT, FS, CB) and 2 DTs who played about half of the snaps (Hill, Tupou). And we don't have any young hot prospects on the team ready to step into any of those starting roles.
You keep beating this drum and I agree. We need to condition ourselves to paying priority positions with Burrow.
WR3 cannot make $10M, RB cannot make $11-13M, FS can not make $16M - despite how good they are or how much fans love them.
Not one of these is a Top 3 priority position on their side of the ball.
Offense: QB, WR1, Oline, WR2 - thats it - RB, TE, and WR3 just need to be pretty good.
* Give a great QB plenty of time to throw to 2 great WR's with other options being decent.
* Make holes for any decent running back.
Defense: DE, CB, DT maybe 1 LB - FS, SS, other LB need to be solid but not stars.
*Rush the passer
*Stop the run.
*Defend dangerous WR's
This is the formula to win championships nowadays, in my humble opinion.
(03-02-2022, 09:15 PM)casear2727 Wrote: You keep beating this drum and I agree. We need to condition ourselves to paying priority positions with Burrow.
WR3 cannot make $10M, RB cannot make $11-13M, FS can not make $16M - despite how good they are or how much fans love them.
Not one of these is a Top 3 priority position on their side of the ball.
Offense: QB, WR1, Oline, WR2 - thats it - RB, TE, and WR3 just need to be pretty good.
* Give a great QB plenty of time to throw to 2 great WR's with other options being decent.
* Make holes for any decent running back.
Defense: DE, CB, DT maybe 1 LB - FS, SS, other LB need to be solid but not stars.
*Rush the passer
*Stop the run.
*Defend dangerous WR's
This is the formula to win championships nowadays, in my humble opinion.
Great post. This is why I am okay with the talk of letting Bates go if we have to and I am open to trading Boyd if we have to.
Sucks but we have to keep all our options open in order to protect Burrow and get our running game tops.
(03-02-2022, 08:57 PM)BengalsJA Wrote: This right here is what we need. I can’t believe people want Spain, Hopkins, and even Carmen out there. Also, people want a late first round draft pick starting. No way! Seen this way to many times. I want 4 new lineman & it can be done. Chiefs had no money last year & was still able to sign their own + get 4 new oline. It’s time to stop messing around or hoping on this or that. Joe needs it now. We can get Jensen/Bozeman C, Tomlinson/Norwell LG, Daniels/Corbett RG, & Brown/Moses RT. They all don’t have to be all pro or pro bowlers. They all just need to be solid. This would be my first priority before any thing else gets done. It is all possible & needs to happen.
I would rather not resign Spain. I admit he was good at times. When it counted he struggled, he did not handle the Titans well at all.
But my biggest issue is the last play of the SB. And I know one play shouldnt have such a huge impact and I know it was Aaaron Donald.
But on 4th down in the SB, the biggest play in Spain's life, he was not asked to beat Aaron Donald, he simply had to take one aggressive step to the left. All he had to do was give AD his inside. The line call was for Hopkins to help Spain and double team AD. Watch the video and see Hopkins not have anyone to block because Spain lost his mind and went after space instead of positioning his body to his left. Ad could have split that doubleteam and still sacked Joe, at least they would have ran it correctly. This brain lapse is inexcusable to me.
Just dont get beat outside... Just dont get beat outside... Just dont get beat outside... Just dont get beat outside...
(click watch on youtube and focus on Spain & Hopkins)
(03-02-2022, 09:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post. This is why I am okay with the talk of letting Bates go if we have to and I am open to trading Boyd if we have to.
Sucks but we have to keep all our options open in order to protect Burrow and get our running game tops.
Sucked for Patriots fans too when Belicheck started it, but multiple championships cured them right up.
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: bengals08-1-800small.jpg]](https://i.ibb.co/MRz4cC9/bengals08-1-800small.jpg)
