What Pollack wants in OL

[Bengalbug]

(03-03-2022, 05:02 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Um, that's what the draft is.

That isn’t entirely true. Im not even sure why I keep responding.

[GodFather]

(03-02-2022, 06:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: James Rapien asked Pollack what he's looking for in free agent OL.

Shout-out @JamesRapien for asking a great question

Frank Pollack on what he is looking for in free agent offensive linemen:

"Scheme fit, we need guys who are athletic, can run, can play at the second level in the run game"

(wide zone)

— Mike (@bengals_sans) March 2, 2022

So expect the Bengals to go after guys who are athletic, can move, and succeed in wide zone.

Expect Pollack to also look for this in the draft.

Then he said... "Oh yeah someone who can block".    

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2022, 04:35 PM)Synric Wrote: The more and more I look at the 2022 OT Draft class the more I want Morgan Moses or Trent Brown in free agency. Moses would likely be cheaper and can do a team friendly deal that can give them options in 2023 or 2024.

Brian Allen and Morgan Moses are my top 2 Outside Free Agent targets.

Same and they fit exactly what Pollack is speaking of.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-03-2022, 04:54 PM)Housh Wrote: I’m loving the IQ from the coaches

Yes we want a top 3 passing attack, but we also need Mixon to get off to help Burrow and because Mixon is a 3 down back making 12 million. We have to justify that contract.

Teams that had a Top 5 passing attack in 2021:
Buccaneers
Chargers
Cowboys
Chiefs
Rams

Top 5 teams in RB spending in 2021:
Titans
Giants
Broncos
Bengals
Browns

The league average for team spending on RBs for 2022 is $8.4mill in cap.
Bengals currently slated to spend about double that - $16.5mill.

Bengals need to pick an identity and build around that.
Stop trying to be everything.

I'm just thinking that if the Bengals really did think when they drafted Burrow that they wanted to be pass-heavy, why give Mixon a 4-year, $48 mill contract? You could have put that money toward OL instead.
Given Mixon was still under contract for 2020, Bengals could have just planned to draft a new RB1 in 2021 with either the Carman or one of the 4th round picks. I would have been ok with Khalil Herbert, Elijah Mitchell, Chuba Hubbard, or Michael Carter as the new RB1. All of them were taken on Day 3.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-03-2022, 04:02 PM)Synric Wrote: So he's more Kadarius Toney than Terrance Marshall as a slot. 

Yea, maybe Toney.
Cole Beasley though might be one of the best comparisons.
Beasley is only 5'8", 178 lb. Robinson just measured at the Combine the exact same.
Here are Beasley's metrics from when he was drafted - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/cole-beasley

We'll see Robinson I believe this evening at the Combine?
I think he'll put up comparable numbers, if not better in some areas.

Beasley, as everyone knows, has become a pretty damn good slot receiver in the NFL.

Robinson will have some added value rushing some too, which Beasley doesn't do.

[pulses]

(03-03-2022, 02:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Poor technique on top of the shorter arms? No thanks on Raimann if this is the case.


Eh, it isn't a bad comparison when Spain is playing well he is pretty damn good. I just am down on him after the postseason
where he was just really bad going against Simmons, Chris Jones and Donald. But these guys abuse a lot of IOL. I think Salyer
plays meaner than Spain and he has good technique with high upside while playing against top competition in the SEC.

bleacher report and nfl draft buzz both have him as a high quality backup/low level starter. Not sure that's what we need to be drafting early on in the draft.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2022, 08:38 PM)pulses Wrote: bleacher report and nfl draft buzz both have him as a high quality backup/low level starter. Not sure that's what we need to be drafting early on in the draft.

I am thinking of Salyer in the 2nd round. Name an OL that will start right away that will be available at 31, I don't know of one 
unless Linderbaum falls to us or we grab Zion Johnson and he impresses big time early. There definitely won't be any OT's that 
will be available there that could start immediately. I really like Salyer in the 2nd if he is available is all I am saying. 

Played against top competition, is physical and plays with good technique, a pure Guard. This is what we need instead of drafting
OT's to play Guard like we have been doing lately.

[pulses]

(03-03-2022, 08:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am thinking of Salyer in the 2nd round. Name an OL that will start right away that will be available at 31, I don't know of one 
unless Linderbaum falls to us or we grab Zion Johnson and he impresses big time early. There definitely won't be any OT's that 
will be available there that could start immediately. I really like Salyer in the 2nd if he is available is all I am saying. 

Played against top competition, is physical and plays with good technique, a pure Guard. This is what we need instead of drafting
OT's to play Guard like we have been doing lately.

We aren't gonna get any OL in 1 or 2 that's gonna start now unless Linderbaum falls. That;s why you sign FA's and draft other positions. Quite a few in the mid rounds who could start in a cpl years after some grooming and learning from our FA signings.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2022, 09:33 PM)pulses Wrote: We aren't gonna get any OL in 1 or 2 that's gonna start now unless Linderbaum falls. That;s why you sign FA's and draft other positions. Quite a few in the mid rounds who could start in a cpl years after some grooming and learning from our FA signings.

Completely agree.

[CoachGeorge]

(03-03-2022, 08:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am thinking of Salyer in the 2nd round. Name an OL that will start right away that will be available at 31, I don't know of one 
unless Linderbaum falls to us or we grab Zion Johnson and he impresses big time early. There definitely won't be any OT's that 
will be available there that could start immediately. I really like Salyer in the 2nd if he is available is all I am saying. 

Played against top competition, is physical and plays with good technique, a pure Guard. This is what we need instead of drafting
OT's to play Guard like we have been doing lately.

What makes you think he is a “pure” guard? He did come into as a high school guard but couldn’t crack the lineup inside. He started the majority of his time at OT. Like Carman, he profiles at OG, but has some versatility across the entire line. In the below interview he even talks of OC has a potential fit. He lacks lateral mobility so I am not to convinced he is a wide zone fit. He is also not a natural knee-bender which concerns me. In a fair world, his playoff game against UM should have got him player off the game. He. Shut. Down. Hutchinson.

Https://youtu.be/qYr1DBaRO2o

[CoachGeorge]

(03-03-2022, 09:33 PM)pulses Wrote: We aren't gonna get any OL in 1 or 2 that's gonna start now unless Linderbaum falls. That;s why you sign FA's and draft other positions. Quite a few in the mid rounds who could start in a cpl years after some grooming and learning from our FA signings.

I think Zion Johnson would be a year one starter. Kenyon Green, should he drop, is also a year one starter. If any of these three fall, you take them otherwise CB or DL should be the pick.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-03-2022, 05:04 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: That isn’t entirely true. Im not even sure why I keep responding.

Entirely? No. But, there are 32 teams with 32 different draft boards. Because ranking players from 1-255 is subjective despite objective data like Joe Burrow’s hand size or Rashawn Slater’s arm length. That’s why Brady went 199 overall. Because all 32 teams were wrong at least 5 times.

Oops, 31.

[Bengalbug]

(03-03-2022, 10:27 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Entirely? No. But, there are 32 teams with 32 different draft boards. Because ranking players from 1-255 is subjective despite objective data like Joe Burrow’s hand size or Rashawn Slater’s arm length. That’s why Brady went 199 overall. Because all 32 teams were wrong at least 5 times.

Oops, 31.

Let me ask it a different way. Who would you rather have as your number 2, If you were Rodgers/GB. Boyd or a end of round 2 rookie?

Who is, much, more likely for 70/1000/6?

[*ochocincos*]

(03-03-2022, 09:33 PM)pulses Wrote: We aren't gonna get any OL in 1 or 2 that's gonna start now unless Linderbaum falls. That;s why you sign FA's and draft other positions. Quite a few in the mid rounds who could start in a cpl years after some grooming and learning from our FA signings.

I think Zion Johnson could start Day 1.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-03-2022, 11:11 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Let me ask it a different way. Who would you rather have as your number 2, If you were Rodgers/GB. Boyd or a end of round 2 rookie?

Who is, much, more likely for 70/1000/6?

Boyd at $7.3M + Adams at $25M when I’m already $50M over the cap not including this $32.3M and need to dump salary?

Or Jalen Tolbert at $1.1M + Adams at $25M?

[Bengalbug]

(03-04-2022, 12:34 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Boyd at $7.3M + Adams at $25M when I’m already $50M over the cap not including this $32.3M and need to dump salary?

Or Jalen Tolbert at $1.1M + Adams at $25M?

They are NOT 50m over the cap. They already cut that in half and will drop it more easily. Reducing cap is really not that hard. They are kicking the can down the road, but they are going to go all in to win a Super Bowl

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/
https://dairylandexpress.com/2022/03/03/4-contract-extensions-free-needed-cap-space-packers/amp/

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/news/smith-bros-will-have-role-in-packers-getting-beneath-salary-cap

https://zonecoverage.com/2022/packers/how-the-packers-can-free-up-90-million-in-cap-space-without-cutting-anybody/

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-04-2022, 12:41 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: They are NOT 50m over the cap. They already cut that in half and will drop it more easily. Reducing cap is really not that hard. They are kicking the can down the road, but they are going to go all in to win a Super Bowl

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/
https://dairylandexpress.com/2022/03/03/4-contract-extensions-free-needed-cap-space-packers/amp/

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/news/smith-bros-will-have-role-in-packers-getting-beneath-salary-cap

https://zonecoverage.com/2022/packers/how-the-packers-can-free-up-90-million-in-cap-space-without-cutting-anybody/

Thanks for the correction. Only $32M over the cap, “half” of 50 according to new math. Add $7.3M for Boyd and $25M for Adams and they’re $64M over the cap. And that’s before they sign a single draft pick or free agency begins.

And I don’t think trading a 1st and a 4th to move up to draft Jordan Love is indicative of going “all in.”

This is a quote from How the Packers Can Free Up $90 Million In Cap Space Without Cutting Anybody, “Another disclaimer: It’s evident the Packers will cut some players.” Maybe he should change the title to How the Packers Can Free Up $90 Million In Cap Space Without Cutting Anybody While Inexplicably Cutting Players Simultaneously? Too wordy?

[Bengalbug]

(03-04-2022, 01:10 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Thanks for the correction. Only $32M over the cap, “half” of 50 according to new math. Add $7.3M for Boyd and $25M for Adams and they’re $64M over the cap. And that’s before they sign a single draft pick or free agency begins.

And I don’t think trading a 1st and a 4th to move up to draft Jordan Love is indicative of going “all in.”

They mis played their hand. And you clearly didn’t click on one single other article. They will be just fine. This whole cap thing is silly. Considering the position the bengals are in, they should be one of the biggest players this whole offseason. Saving money for future years is a weak argument.

The chiefs were 20-21m, this time last year, over the cap, it didn’t stop them from retooling their OL. Sounds impossible, but it happened, and that was with the impending contract of mahomes kicking in, and hill and kelce, so on.

https://amp.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article249335735.html

The bengals can easily resign bates, get above average/good 2-3 OL and fill out the roster, while bringing back whoever they want of their own. While keeping boyd and mixon.

This whole thing was started as sarcasm, because only bengals fans would
Think they don’t have enough money to go around.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-04-2022, 01:31 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: They mis played their hand. And you clearly didn’t click on one single other article. They will be just fine. This whole cap thing is silly. Considering the position the bengals are in, they should be one of the biggest players this whole offseason. Saving money for future years is a weak argument.

The chiefs were 20-21m, this time last year, over the cap, it didn’t stop them from retooling their OL. Sounds impossible, but it happened, and that was with the impending contract of mahomes kicking in, and hill and kelce, so on.

https://amp.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article249335735.html

The bengals can easily resign bates, get above average/good 2-3 OL and fill out the roster, while bringing back whoever they want of their own. While keeping boyd and mixon.

This whole thing was started as sarcasm, because only bengals fans would
Think they don’t have enough money to go around.

I wonder who wrote this . . .

(03-03-2022, 04:45 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: As an example, PFF projects RG James Daniels at 5 years, 50 million, and I don't remember the guaranteed figure.

I can make that work with cap hits of 7M/10.5M/10.5M/10.5M/11.5M.  Guarantee the first 3 years would equal $36M in guarantees so he would receive at least 72% of the contract which is a good deal for him (and his agent.) And if the Bengals needed to release him in the 5th year there would only be $4M in dead money and a $7.5M cap savings. And as you can tell the consistent cap hits the Bengals aren't pushing cap space into future years to create a problem down the road. And it equals a $10M average per year which would be #5 for RGs . . .this year. That contract won't stay Top 5.

They can afford several upgrades unless the contracts get more ridiculous than usual.

Oh, it was ***** me. Nine hours before you claimed only Bengals fans believe they don’t have enough money.

If the Bengals can “easily resign bates, get above average/good 2-3 OL and fill out the roster, while bringing back whoever they want of their own. While keeping boyd and mixon” then why are you trading Boyd when the Bengals can easily do all that? You don’t like 70/1000/6 receivers? Because according to you, teams can’t find WRs like that drafted five slots after Boyd. Except for the examples which have already been pointed out. But, excluding them, it’s impossible.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2022, 09:55 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: What makes you think he is a “pure” guard?  He did come into as a high school guard but couldn’t crack the lineup inside. He started the majority of his time at OT.  Like Carman, he profiles at OG, but has some versatility across the entire line.  In the below interview he even talks of OC has a potential fit.  He lacks lateral mobility so I am not to convinced he is a wide zone fit.  He is also not a natural knee-bender which concerns me.  In a fair world, his playoff game against UM should have got him player off the game.  He. Shut. Down. Hutchinson.

Https://youtu.be/qYr1DBaRO2o

Well I mean Salyer at least played Guard at Georgia his last season unlike Carman at Clemson. I like that Salyer is versatile too.

Not being a natural knee bender is my biggest concern with Salyer like you. And yes, shutting down most likely the #1 overall pick
is a big deal. I just think if we go somewhere else at 31 or trade back Salyer would be a very good pick either in a trade back or with
our 2nd rounder. Not saying take him outright at 31, I would prefer Linderbaum, Kenyon Green if they fall or Zion.