Options at Corner

[Au165]

Corner has continued to be an under discussed need for us next year. There are a couple decent options that I’d investigate.

James Bradberry is supposedly available in NYG. Here is a guy who has shined since leaving CAR. He’s on the last year of his deal and I think he could be had for a 3rd or 4th but would be a high end CB2 low end CB 1.

JC Jackson is not going to be tagged in NE it is being reported. Jackson is a true CB 1 and would cost a good amount of money, but if you want to go all in on a lockdown defense this would be a huge move. I don’t think this would preclude us from getting upgrades on the OL but it probably precludes a bigger name from tier 1.

Both of these options instantly give us a top 5 secondary assuming we keep abates (we will). There are other options but I’m all in on going for an elite defense at least while Burrow is in the rookie deal.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Two FA CBs on PFF’s top 200 list I think are realistic options for CB2 opposite Awuzie are Rams Darious Wiiliams or Seahawks D.J. Reed, Jr.

I didn’t even consider J.C. Jackson because of the money needed to sign him.

[J24]

If Bradberry is cut or a available for trade then I would be 100% in on him but I doubt he is.
Jackson will probably command around 20 Million on the open market I imagine. Dude will be payed.
I think the Bengals are going to go cheap reclamation project like Kevin King or Patrick Peterson. I could see them also going after Gilmore.
My belief is that we will be drafting a CB with our first pick.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Would trade for Bradberry. JC is too expensive.

I also like the thought of bringing in Kevin King and seeing what Lou and our Secondary coaches can do with him.

He is talented, I think a change of scenery would do him good.

[Au165]

To those saying Jackson is too much, interestingly enough we really aren’t paying a #1 corner right now so the math actually works out. I would settle for an older guy like Gilmore on a short term deal but rumor is he’s going out west. Either way, we need to look for a high end FA otherwise I’d say resign Apple and then look for a young guy day 2 and see if he can beat Apple out at some point.

[*Synric*]

Donte Jackson is a very fast zone corner in Carolina. Hes been up and down but so has that entire defense. Situation reminds of Awuzie in Dallas.

[Au165]

(03-04-2022, 06:47 PM)Synric Wrote: Donte Jackson is a very fast zone corner in Carolina. Hes been up and down but so has that entire defense. Situation reminds of Awuzie in Dallas.

I’m okay with that route just because it gives us some long speed but I really would like a true 1 and let Awuzie erase #2’s.

[WVUHomer]

What about Chavarius Ward from KC? I'd be curious if he'd be a mid priced (8M-9M) CB? I thought he played well the few times I watched him (basically just our 2 games and tail end of the Buffalo PO game).

[Au165]

(03-04-2022, 07:18 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: What about Chavarius Ward from KC? I'd be curious if he'd be a mid priced (8M-9M) CB? I thought he played well the few times I watched him (basically just our 2 games and tail end of the Buffalo PO game).

You might as well stay with Eli Apple and draft a rookie. Any improvement over late season Apple is minimal and not worth the money.

[WVUHomer]

(03-04-2022, 07:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: You might as well stay with Eli Apple and draft a rookie. Any improvement over late season Apple is minimal and not worth the money.

Well then. Ok. Thank you lol.

I honestly wasn't sure, seemed he was playing good on Chase if not for Chase just playing lights out both those games.

[pulses]

(03-04-2022, 07:18 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: What about Chavarius Ward from KC? I'd be curious if he'd be a mid priced (8M-9M) CB? I thought he played well the few times I watched him (basically just our 2 games and tail end of the Buffalo PO game).

Spotrac has Ward at 9.9 million. PFF of 65.7 and gives up big plays. too much $$$$  IMO

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-04-2022, 06:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: To those saying Jackson is too much, interestingly enough we really aren’t paying a #1 corner right now so the math actually works out. I would settle for an older guy like Gilmore on a short term deal but rumor is he’s going out west. Either way, we need to look for a high end FA otherwise I’d say resign Apple and then look for a young guy day 2 and see if he can beat Apple out at some point.

With the players and contract numbers I was playing around with on Over The Cap, I could afford probably afford him if I didn’t sign Darious Wiiliams and probably RG J. Daniels and maybe one other player. And I would probably be looking for an OG in the draft.

[Whatever]

(03-04-2022, 06:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: To those saying Jackson is too much, interestingly enough we really aren’t paying a #1 corner right now so the math actually works out. I would settle for an older guy like Gilmore on a short term deal but rumor is he’s going out west. Either way, we need to look for a high end FA otherwise I’d say resign Apple and then look for a young guy day 2 and see if he can beat Apple out at some point.

The cap is going to skyrocket when the new tv deal kicks in, so you can do a lot of salary cap manipulation on a multi year deal for Jackson to keep his cap hit down this year.  

The problem is, do you want to be Duke Tobin and having every talking head destroying you when the OL cost your team the SB, you had the 4th most cap space in the league, you tried a patchwork job on the OL that relied on B and C tier FA's and draft picks?  Especially if the OL costs us the SB again?

[Au165]

(03-04-2022, 08:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: The cap is going to skyrocket when the new tv deal kicks in, so you can do a lot of salary cap manipulation on a multi year deal for Jackson to keep his cap hit down this year.  

The problem is, do you want to be Duke Tobin and having every talking head destroying you when the OL cost your team the SB, you had the 4th most cap space in the league, you tried a patchwork job on the OL that relied on B and C tier FA's and draft picks?  Especially if the OL costs us the SB again?

If the secondary doesn’t get torched on the last drive we don’t lose the SB either. Narratives are interesting because they can so easily flip on small moments. That said, they can still address the line fine even with making one splash move outside of OL. People have this idea that doing anything besides OL is discounting it when in reality people acting as if we have no other needs are discounting that it was the defense that carried us and we need to be cognizant of that.

Usually teams enter FA with a set amount to spend on a position group. Once they get there and start negotiating that dictates if they get one big player or multiple smaller ones. This is what happened last year with CB. We chose to essentially divide of WJ3’s money over two guys and it worked out great.

[Cosmokramer]

(03-04-2022, 08:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: The cap is going to skyrocket when the new tv deal kicks in, so you can do a lot of salary cap manipulation on a multi year deal for Jackson to keep his cap hit down this year.  

The problem is, do you want to be Duke Tobin and having every talking head destroying you when the OL cost your team the SB, you had the 4th most cap space in the league, you tried a patchwork job on the OL that relied on B and C tier FA's and draft picks?  Especially if the OL costs us the SB again?

Did the OL really cost us the SB? Or did the D give up the lead with under 2min left? ??‍♂️??‍♂️ Now I’m not saying we don’t need OL. But we don’t need to stay pat on the D, we need someone help Trey get to the QB. And we need to upgrade over Apple

[phil413]

This is how big of an issue OL is, CB doesn't even have a thread until now (I think).

I'm content with a mid-low grade starter in the 4-6M range, there are so many guys in this range I feel like. I think it's more likely they draft one in the 1st 3 rounds, rather hope for a rookie OL to start in one spot and Carman/Smith at another spot. Otherwise, if use a bigger resource on a corner. We may see Apple back as that player (right or wrong) and pickup a bargain 2-3M old vet as well.

[phil413]

(03-04-2022, 09:15 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: Did the OL really cost us the SB?  Or did the D give up the lead with under 2min left?  ??‍♂️??‍♂️  Now I’m not saying we don’t need OL. But we don’t need to stay pat on the D, we need someone help Trey get to the QB. And we need to upgrade over Apple

We need upgrades on D specifically at corner, but OL did cost the SB.  We were driving a Ferrari with a governor on the motor.  They shouldn't have had the red zone and rushing game issues.  It's fuel to use resources to fix the line so Burrow can dominate and  the D can keep playing well. 

[Whatever]

(03-04-2022, 09:15 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: Did the OL really cost us the SB?  Or did the D give up the lead with under 2min left?  ??‍♂️??‍♂️  Now I’m not saying we don’t need OL. But we don’t need to stay pat on the D, we need someone help Trey get to the QB. And we need to upgrade over Apple

Burrow was sacked 7 times and we were stuffed on multiple 3rd and shorts.  Despite a +2 turnover differential, we lost ToP and, more importantly, the game.  Not to mention some ticky tack penalties at the end against our defense that gave the Rams more chances than they should have had to score the go ahead TD.  Our defense was the only reason we were even in the game, let alone leading.  

I'm not necessarilly opposed to any method of improving the team, but making Jackson the highest paid CB in the league along with making Bates one of the Top 5 highest paid S's as the OP suggests is a massive chunk of the cap, not to mention the substantial deals Bell, Awuzie, and Hilton already have.  It doesn't seem sustainable or really logical given the quality CB and S prospects that will be available in the first two rounds of the draft.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-04-2022, 08:02 PM)pulses Wrote: Spotrac has Ward at 9.9 million. PFF of 65.7 and gives up big plays. too much $$$$  IMO

He must have played amazingly in the playoffs, then. If you count his whole 2021 season including playoffs they have him at 71.2, good for 21st/116.

As for the regular season, PFR has him as allowing 51.3% completion, 6.7 yards per target, 79.4 QB Rating, and only show him missing 3 tackles. All of those are very good.

I'd take Ward for that amount. You have to remember you're not signing a #1 shutdown CB. Those cost #1 shutdown CB money which these days is $19-20m/yr and we're talking half that. I think Ward is pretty reasonable for $9.9m/yr, and that $ is completely covered by the Trae Waynes release savings ($10.858m). 

If you could trade Trae Waynes right now for Ward and nearly $1m, I would do it in a heartbeat.

[Whatever]

(03-04-2022, 09:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: If the secondary doesn’t get torched on the last drive we don’t lose the SB either. Narratives are interesting because they can so easily flip on  small moments. That said, they can still address the line fine even with making one splash move outside of OL. People have this idea that doing anything besides OL is discounting it when in reality people acting as if we have no other needs are discounting that it was the defense that carried us and we need to be cognizant of that.

Usually teams enter FA with a set amount to spend on a position group. Once they get there and start negotiating that dictates if they get one big player or multiple smaller ones. This is what happened last year with CB. We chose to essentially divide of WJ3’s money over two guys and it worked out great.

Hard to pin the loss on the secondary when they held Stafford to his lowest passer rating of the playoffs, especially with some of the calls against them that weren't called all game.  Our defense outperformed our offense during the playoffs and a big reason is almost all of the FA dollars have gone into the defense while the offense gets scraps.

I'm not saying we don't do anything except dump money into the OL, but we need starters at...

LG
RT
TE
3 tech
CB
FS

That's not even counting specialists, an actual competent RG, and depth needs.  We currently have just over $48 mil in cap space.  We'll be up around $58 mil when Waynes gets cut.  Jackson will likely want to become the highest paid CB in the league, so you have to estimate $21 mil APY for him, plus another $15 mil APY for Bates.  Based on projections, you're looking at another $8 mil APY to re-up Hill or Ogunjobi.  Yes, the cap hits won't be the APY, but we've safely spent well over half of our cap space on defense with this plan and we need a starting caliber LG, RG, RT, and TE.  TE will be $8 mil APY based on projections.  B tier G's are $7 mil APY and RT's $10 mil.  So, $32 mil APY on 4 players on offense to go with $44 mil with three players on defense.  That's $76 mil APY that we will have to manipulate down to probably a $48 mil '22 cap hit to leave enough room for rookie pool and injuries.  Then we basically have to get a QB, 2 WR's, 2 DT's, a LB, 2 CB's, and 2 S's out of the draft just to fill out the depth chart.  

Beyond that, you're talking about the team budgeting for position groups.  Do you really think they budget for both Bates and Jackson?  Jackson seems like a guy they'd go after if they can't reach a deal with Bates, not someone they would go after in addition to.