The End of Bates?

[NATI BENGALS]

If Bates likes his teammates, likes his coaches, likes the city, and wants to win he should sign the multi year deal we offer him. We usually won't set the market for a position but I bet we have/will offer him a very fair market value contract. Take it, win a lot, become a franchise legend and live long and prosper.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-05-2022, 12:53 PM)GodFather Wrote: I love Bates but he didnt handle last season well. Sure he played great in playoffs but before that he let this affect his playing.

Bottom line is he can franchised if they don't come to an agreement and he can't do a thing about it. Is he gonna not play for roughly 13 million? Bengals will let him sit so if his agent is playing hardball, it wont end well for either side.

I fear the same thing will happen if we just tag Bates. Love the guy but he didn't handle last year early when he wasn't extended...

This is fact.  

Cannot pay him top dollar like he is a top 5 Safety cause of his regular season even if he played great in the Playoffs.

Give him a contract he deserves which is top 10 Safety money, if he thinks it is too low we just need to move on and draft Brisker.

Sign the multi year top 10 Safety deal Jessie...

This is my advice. You will do well if you do and will be back in the Playoffs and could get another big deal as you are young.

[pulses]

(03-05-2022, 10:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I fear the same thing will happen if we just tag Bates. Love the guy but he didn't handle last year early when he wasn't extended...

This is fact.  

Cannot pay him top dollar like he is a top 5 Safety cause of his regular season even if he played great in the Playoffs.

Give him a contract he deserves which is top 10 Safety money, if he thinks it is too low we just need to move on and draft Brisker.

Sign the multi year top 10 Safety deal Jessie...

This is my advice. You will do well if you do and will be back in the Playoffs and could get another big deal as you are young.

5 years and 60 million and give him half of it as a signing bonus to keep the cap hit low each year.....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-06-2022, 12:06 AM)pulses Wrote: 5 years and 60 million and give him half of it as a signing bonus to keep the cap hit low each year.....

I like that MUCH more than the 4 year 60 mil deal that was mentioned before.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-05-2022, 07:23 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We do not have any player making more than $9m in base salary, and the cap is 100% base - that was my reference.

Huh? Look at their cap hits…

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Just heard we are likely to put the tag on Jessie. Hope he takes it well.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-06-2022, 12:06 AM)pulses Wrote: 5 years and 60 million and give him half of it as a signing bonus to keep the cap hit low each year.....

Jamal Adams 4yr/$70M
Harrison Smith 4yr/$64M
Justin Simmons 4 yr/$61M
Budda Baker 4yr/$59M
Eddie Jackson 4yr/$58M
Kevin Byard 5yr/$70M in 2019
Tyrann Mathieu 3yr/$42M
Landon Collins 6yr/$84M
Devin McCourty 2yr/23M in 2020

The closest comp for 5 years is $70M . . . three years ago. The only contract that averaged less than $14M/yr is McCourty’s. I don’t think Bates’ agent is looking for below market value or an extension would already be signed. $14M/yr is the floor.

[casear2727]

(03-06-2022, 01:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Huh? Look at their cap hits…

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

Not cap hit, base salary.  No player has a base over $9M, but a tagged players salary is 100% base.  Allow me to juggle the numbers so I can make my point.. LOL

[casear2727]

(03-06-2022, 01:42 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just heard we are likely to put the tag on Jessie. Hope he takes it well.

Who cares?  He cant be stupid about it, we have no choice. This gives us 4 months to negotiate his contract. 

If he can get a team to come over our cap and sign him I'd be all for that.  Let's see who thinks Bates is worth two 1st Round draft picks...

[pulses]

(03-06-2022, 01:42 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just heard we are likely to put the tag on Jessie. Hope he takes it well.

If he doesn't and wants to play hardball just trade him for a stud OL and draft a safety early in the draft and sign a vet to a one year deal. someone cheap like PJ Williams. Then take the 12-13 mill you were gonna use on Bates and sign James Daniels for 5 years and 50 and lock him in and play him at center. Trade Boyd to NE for Shaq Mason and we have our RG locked in. Draft Skyy Moore in the 2nd round our new slot WR. Move Carman to LG. Sign Morgan Moses for 2 years and draft an OT in the middle rounds to develop.

[pulses]

(03-06-2022, 02:17 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Jamal Adams 4yr/$70M
Harrison Smith 4yr/$64M
Justin Simmons 4 yr/$61M
Budda Baker 4yr/$59M
Eddie Jackson 4yr/$58M
Kevin Byard 5yr/$70M in 2019
Tyrann Mathieu 3yr/$42M
Landon Collins 6yr/$84M
Devin McCourty 2yr/23M in 2020

The closest comp for 5 years is $70M . . . three years ago. The only contract that averaged less than $14M/yr is McCourty’s. I don’t think Bates’ agent is looking for below market value or an extension would already be signed. $14M/yr is the floor.

I'd say we won't go over 14 but I might be wrong.

[Weazzel80]

I love Bates in coverage, but honestly he gets ran over sometimes so I can understand why the front office is hesitant to give him top dollar.

[pulses]

(03-06-2022, 03:52 AM)Weazzel80 Wrote: I love Bates in coverage, but honestly he gets ran over sometimes so I can understand why the front office is hesitant to give him top dollar.Yeah

Yeah I think the front office has a price and they won't deter from that.

[bengals67]

Need to spend on ol instead of paying Bates as a top 3 safety.

Do these guys ever think about salary cap and need to improve the team to win super bowl?

If you get a 3 year guaranteed $30 million contract is making another $3 a year really a big deal? How much money do you need? This is not just management being cheap provided they use the rest of money which I think they will this year.

[BengalsRocker]

(03-06-2022, 09:34 AM)bengals67 Wrote: Need to spend on ol instead of paying Bates as a top 3 safety.

Do these guys ever think about salary cap and need to improve the team to win super bowl?

If you get a 3 year guaranteed $30 million contract is making another $3 a year really a big deal? How much money do you need? This is not just management being cheap provided they use the rest of money which I think they will this year.

I don't necessarily think it's the dollars going into someone's pocket that rank as sole importance.

Value rank at the position in the league matters for not just today but future negotiations as well.

[Soonerpeace]

The dynamics of the Bengals will be truly a fascinating watch. How they manage having one of the top teams in the NFL. Relating to the salary cap, making business decisions on favorite players, and drafting. Let’s be honest here. Duke Tobin has been in charge for several years. The roster was lousy when Taylor got here. The culture lousy. Overpriced vets.

I think that Zac has provided the leadership that ignited Tobin. I think they are a good mesh. I think Tobin’s weaknesses were boosted by Taylor and his other coaches evaluation. They’ve missed on the OL. I think they may be missing a good OL evaluator in scouting and all of them. . Hopefully like I’ve heard Derek Frazier is strong there.

They will most likely franchise tag Bates. I just think Bates is mostly focused on money. That’s okay.

[M.W.]

(03-05-2022, 01:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown is on MySpace.

From his Web TV?

[M.W.]

(03-06-2022, 01:42 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just heard we are likely to put the tag on Jessie. Hope he takes it well.

I would rather let him walk.

That being said I really like Bates, he is a good safety and played at a college 7 miles from my house.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-05-2022, 12:51 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Whats the Plan B if not resigned? We may have to use one of our top 3 picks on a FS or pay a less expensive FA Safety...as I dont think we have the answer on the current roster. I want him back but if hes asking for top $ in league  , im not on board. 

I think you franchise tag him and draft a safety to develop.

There are some decent safeties in free agency.

It all boils down to:

1) How much do you value Bates.
2) Do you see Bates as playoff Bates? Or regular season Bates?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-06-2022, 02:23 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Who cares?  He cant be stupid about it, we have no choice. This gives us 4 months to negotiate his contract. 

If he can get a team to come over our cap and sign him I'd be all for that.  Let's see who thinks Bates is worth two 1st Round draft picks...

True that we can extend him after we tag him. Hope this is in the cards.

The Tag just doesn't work out well, we all saw it with AJ, paid him 18 mil for one year of poor play.

(03-06-2022, 02:24 AM)pulses Wrote: If he doesn't and wants to play hardball just trade him for a stud OL and draft a safety early in the draft and sign a vet to a one year deal. someone cheap like PJ Williams. Then take the 12-13 mill you were gonna use on Bates and sign James Daniels for 5 years and 50 and lock him in and play him at center. Trade Boyd to NE for Shaq Mason and we have our RG locked in. Draft Skyy Moore in the 2nd round our new slot WR. Move Carman to LG. Sign Morgan Moses for 2 years and draft an OT in the middle rounds to develop.

I like this A LOT.

Sucks to lose Bates and Boyd but we gotta do what we gotta do. 

The OL needs upgraded and anyway we can do it has to be in the conversation. Daniels, Mason and Morgan Moses would do the job.

(03-06-2022, 11:41 AM)M.W. Wrote: I would rather let him walk.

That being said I really like Bates, he is a good safety and played at a college 7 miles from my house.

Hope the get a contract done, like Casear says, this gives us more time for negotiations.