working salary cap set

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-08-2022, 10:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I was playing around with Spotrac's Roster Manager and I made the following moves:

Cut Waynes (+$10.8 mill)
Cut Hopkins (+$6 mill)

Cut the following random depth players that likely have no chance in making the roster:
Noah Spence ($895k)
Lamont Gaillard ($895k)
Jake Browning ($825k)
Keandre Jones ($825k)
John Brannon ($705k)
Elijah Holyfield ($705k)
Scotty Washington ($705k)
Pooka Williams ($705k)

Added the following players:
BJ Hill ($8 mill)
CJ Uzomah ($8 mill)
Quinton Spain ($5 mill)
Eli Apple ($4 mill)
Tre Flowers ($2 mill)
Clark Harris ($1.25 mill)
James Daniels ($10 mill)
Brian Allen ($7 mill)
Morgan Moses ($9 mill)

That brought the roster to 47 players and $3.723 mill remaining in cap going into the draft.

What to take from this:
The Bengals might not quite be able to sign all their main internal FAs plus 2-3 good OL upgrades in FA, but they could come close if they are willing to cut Waynes.

Nicely done. I find this to actually be very realistic and would be more than fine with it. It allows Carman, D'Ante, Trey Hill 
and whoever we Draft to develop behind proven vets which is what we need.

(03-08-2022, 11:12 PM)casear2727 Wrote: That Oline is so blah Ocho.

Spain I understand but not thrilled.
Allen might be worse tna Hopkins
Moses couldnt start for the Jets last year was on a 1 year tender for 4M and had a solid season but is 31.

James Daniels I like but i do not understand the Bears not fighting to keep him if he is so great and only 24 with their 30M in cap space.

Hill is the one Im confident in. CJ I guess. Flowers is a steal at 2M.  You not signing Huber?

Well we could go with just a couple bigger name FA's but this is realistic as the O-lineman Ocho has here fit the wide zone
scheme that Pollack runs and this is feasible money wise. Allen is a much better run blocker than Hopkins, Hopkins is a better
pass protector though. With Daniels he is highly versatile and the Bears were in a tough place cap wise and it is about unheard
of for teams to tag O-lineman.

Moses is a slight upgrade over Reiff in my opinion cause he is younger and isn't as injury prone. He allows for whoever we pick
to develop behind a proven vet at RT.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-08-2022, 11:12 PM)casear2727 Wrote: That Oline is so blah Ocho.

Spain I understand but not thrilled.
Allen might be worse tna Hopkins
Moses couldnt start for the Jets last year was on a 1 year tender for 4M and had a solid season but is 31.

James Daniels I like but i do not understand the Bears not fighting to keep him if he is so great and only 24 with their 30M in cap space.

Hill is the one Im confident in. CJ I guess. Flowers is a steal at 2M.  You not signing Huber?

What do you mean Moses couldn't start for the Jets last year?
He played 1022 snaps and had a 71.0 PFF rating (65.7 pass, 74.9 run).
He's extremely durable and well-rounded.

Brian Allen is not worse than Hopkins.
Allen was PFF's 10th rated Center.
Including the postseason, Allen had a grade of 74.8. 62.4 pass block, 79.7 run block.
5 sacks allowed including postseason, same number as Hopkins.

I'm not sure why CHI chose not to tag Daniels either, but I would assume it's because they only have $24 mill in cap space. Tagging Daniels would have been $16.6 mill, as the tag doesn't differentiate by OT vs OG vs C.

I don't know what to tell you, but Bengals aren't getting a ton of high-priced players in FA.
They simply don't have enough cap to do it.
You're going to have to settle for players in the $5-10 mill range.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-09-2022, 01:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: His cap hit this year is still nearly $16M, they can save $10.8M by cutting him.  The question then is, can you get equal or better with the $10.8M saved?  

That's a tough call.  Was he at least healthy at the end of the season and could have played?  Maybe he would allow the Bengals to restructure the contract.  There is no way I am giving him $16 million after the past two seasons.  He won't get half that on open market.

Thanks for clarifying the amounts. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-09-2022, 02:19 PM)casear2727 Wrote: He will be cut, he wasnt an option in the SB when Awuzie went down, he wont be an option in 2022.  Waynes is gone, IMO.

Wasn't aware about that with the Super Bowl.  Thanks.  I think he will be gone, too, but I sure wish they could find another Chido-type for depth and competition to Apple in case he regresses.  I'm really hoping that pick 31 is used on a stud DT or DE.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-09-2022, 06:11 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Drafting a cb would be better. You will get more from him than nothing Waynes will provide

I really doubt a CB at 31 would be a better option than Waynes on the field, but I get that no one wants that guy.  I just hope they can find another Chido-type for depth and competition to Apple so pick 31 could be used on what is sure to be a very talented DT or DE.  

[SunsetBengal]

(03-10-2022, 09:11 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That's a tough call.  Was he at least healthy at the end of the season and could have played?  Maybe he would allow the Bengals to restructure the contract.  There is no way I am giving him $16 million after the past two seasons.  He won't get half that on open market.

Thanks for clarifying the amounts. 

Yeah, when they first signed him, I was excited for the team.  Now that things have played out the way they did, and the fact they chose not to play him when he was available, I think that the cut is inevitable.  Most of the recent FA pickups by the Bengals have worked out extremely well, it was just painful to see them have such terrible luck with such a large contract on a player.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-10-2022, 09:24 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, when they first signed him, I was excited for the team.  Now that things have played out the way they did, and the fact they chose not to play him when he was available, I think that the cut is inevitable.  Most of the recent FA pickups by the Bengals have worked out extremely well, it was just painful to see them have such terrible luck with such a large contract on a player.

To me, that is the cautionary tale as to why you don't sign Jackson and put all your FA (or at least a lot of it...rumors of him getting $20 million per) dollars in the one basket as opposed to several quality additions.  Depth is every bit as important as quality at the top.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-10-2022, 09:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: To me, that is the cautionary tale as to why you don't sign Jackson and put all your FA (or at least a lot of it...rumors of him getting $20 million per) dollars in the one basket as opposed to several quality additions.  Depth is every bit as important as quality at the top.  

Truth, putting all our money into JC Jackson would be a huge mistake as our OL would not be able to be upgraded sufficiently. 

[casear2727]

(03-09-2022, 08:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What do you mean Moses couldn't start for the Jets last year?
He played 1022 snaps and had a 71.0 PFF rating (65.7 pass, 74.9 run).
He's extremely durable and well-rounded.

Brian Allen is not worse than Hopkins.
Allen was PFF's 10th rated Center.
Including the postseason, Allen had a grade of 74.8. 62.4 pass block, 79.7 run block.
5 sacks allowed including postseason, same number as Hopkins.

I'm not sure why CHI chose not to tag Daniels either, but I would assume it's because they only have $24 mill in cap space. Tagging Daniels would have been $16.6 mill, as the tag doesn't differentiate by OT vs OG vs C.

I don't know what to tell you, but Bengals aren't getting a ton of high-priced players in FA.
They simply don't have enough cap to do it.
You're going to have to settle for players in the $5-10 mill range.

Moses was on the bench on a one year $4M tender and took over when Becton was hurt.  Fant slid to LT and Moses was the RT.

Some think Allen is a product of the quick pass offense the 22-Film stuff I have seen he is not close to the upper tier guys we are looking at, several guys that do these tape sessions seem to have a consensus on the guy that isnt overwhelmingly positive.

I don't know what to tell you, but Bengals aren't getting a ton of high-priced players in FA.

They simply don't have enough cap to do it.

You're going to have to settle for players in the $5-10 mill range.

They actually have the cash on hand to make it work for a couple of solid oline guys and one DT.  It's not just cap, as you are well aware.

However you are most likely correct, regardless of cap or cash we wont see what we would really hope for...


We could get one of these centers and the average of each position group for under 35M cap hit, depending on signing bonuses, IMO.

C:  Jensen or Bozeman.   11-13M

T:  T Brown (hi)/ Moses (med)/ Ifedi (lo).   7-11M

G:  Tomlinson or Corbett (hi)/ Cappa or Karras or Norwell (med)/ Willliams (lo).  6-10M

DT:  Hill or Ogunjobi (and a low cost vet)  7-9M

CB:   D Jackson or D Williams (hi)/ R Douglas (med)/ Witherspoon or S Jones (lo)   4-10M

[*ochocincos*]

(03-10-2022, 03:45 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Moses was on the bench on a one year $4M tender and took over when Becton was hurt.  Fant slid to LT and Moses was the RT.

Some think Allen is a product of the quick pass offense the 22-Film stuff I have seen he is not close to the upper tier guys we are looking at, several guys that do these tape sessions seem to have a consensus on the guy that isnt overwhelmingly positive.

I don't know what to tell you, but Bengals aren't getting a ton of high-priced players in FA.

They simply don't have enough cap to do it.

You're going to have to settle for players in the $5-10 mill range.

They actually have the cash on hand to make it work for a couple of solid oline guys and one DT.  It's not just cap, as you are well aware.

However you are most likely correct, regardless of cap or cash we wont see what we would really hope for...


We could get one of these centers and the average of each position group for under 35M cap hit, depending on signing bonuses, IMO.

C:  Jensen or Bozeman.   11-13M

T:  T Brown (hi)/ Moses (med)/ Ifedi (lo).   7-11M

G:  Tomlinson or Corbett (hi)/ Cappa or Karras or Norwell (med)/ Willliams (lo).  6-10M

DT:  Hill or Ogunjobi (and a low cost vet)  7-9M

CB:   D Jackson or D Williams (hi)/ R Douglas (med)/ Witherspoon or S Jones (lo)   4-10M

Well yes, Moses was ORIGINALLY a depth signing, but he filled in admirably as the starter due to injury. Moses still started 16 games whether it was due to injury or not.

[casear2727]

(03-10-2022, 08:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Well yes, Moses was ORIGINALLY a depth signing, but he filled in admirably as the starter due to injury. Moses still started 16 games whether it was due to injury or not.

Absolutely he did, but this was first in 9 years, yet he is an upgrade with what we currently have.  Just being cautious with too much praise...

[*ochocincos*]

(03-10-2022, 09:10 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Absolutely he did, but this was first in 9 years, yet he is an upgrade with what we currently have.  Just being cautious with too much praise...

What? You mean his first...good season in 9 years?
Based on what?

[casear2727]

(03-10-2022, 10:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What? You mean his first...good season in 9 years?
Based on what?

I worded that poorly, I think he had one of his better pass blocking years, he has always been a good run blocker.  And he is defitiniely an upgrade with anything we currently have on the roster.

Here is an excerpt by a Jets writer prior to this season:

Moses is extremely big and has outstanding length, which he uses to his advantage.  He is not regarded as a very good athlete and his combine numbers were mostly poor. Moses has primarily played right tackle with Washington and that’s expected to be his role with the Jets. 

Moses is not flawless in pass protection, but his overall numbers have been solid and he’s displayed remarkable consistency.
Moses gave up exactly five sacks in each of the last five seasons and six in his other year as a starter.  His pressure numbers have also been consistent. He’s given up fewer than 40 total pressures in each of his six years as a starter.  Moses has generally held his own, even when matched up against good pass rushers. However, he can get beaten from time to time.
With his size, Moses is not easy to bull rush and usually anchors well. However, he has been known to get sloppy with his pad level sometimes.

Moses is expected to be a difference maker in the running game as he comes off a season where he graded out as the sixth best run blocking tackle in the NFL according to Pro Football Focus.

At the point of attack, he works well in tandem with his teammates and has the power to blow his man off the line. He is also capable of climbing to the second level and making blocks in space. However, despite his reputation as not being particularly athletic, that doesn’t mean he can’t get on the move and make good blocks on outside runs.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-10-2022, 03:45 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Moses was on the bench on a one year $4M tender and took over when Becton was hurt.  Fant slid to LT and Moses was the RT.

Some think Allen is a product of the quick pass offense the 22-Film stuff I have seen he is not close to the upper tier guys we are looking at, several guys that do these tape sessions seem to have a consensus on the guy that isnt overwhelmingly positive.

I don't know what to tell you, but Bengals aren't getting a ton of high-priced players in FA.

They simply don't have enough cap to do it.

You're going to have to settle for players in the $5-10 mill range.

They actually have the cash on hand to make it work for a couple of solid oline guys and one DT.  It's not just cap, as you are well aware.

However you are most likely correct, regardless of cap or cash we wont see what we would really hope for...


We could get one of these centers and the average of each position group for under 35M cap hit, depending on signing bonuses, IMO.

C:  Jensen or Bozeman.   11-13M

T:  T Brown (hi)/ Moses (med)/ Ifedi (lo).   7-11M

G:  Tomlinson or Corbett (hi)/ Cappa or Karras or Norwell (med)/ Willliams (lo).  6-10M

DT:  Hill or Ogunjobi (and a low cost vet)  7-9M

CB:   D Jackson or D Williams (hi)/ R Douglas (med)/ Witherspoon or S Jones (lo)   4-10M

The Jets tendered Moses, did they?

That right there tells me you don’t what was going on and you’re making shit up again.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-10-2022, 02:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Truth, putting all our money into JC Jackson would be a huge mistake as our OL would not be able to be upgraded sufficiently. 

A mid-level CB for depth and competition will allow them to draft a DE in Rd 1 (assuming they also add an OT/G or C and G also) and load up that defensive line with pass rushers including the returning Ossai.  There are some real potential contributors from the draft this year.  

[Luvnit2]

(03-10-2022, 03:45 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Moses was on the bench on a one year $4M tender and took over when Becton was hurt.  Fant slid to LT and Moses was the RT.

Some think Allen is a product of the quick pass offense the 22-Film stuff I have seen he is not close to the upper tier guys we are looking at, several guys that do these tape sessions seem to have a consensus on the guy that isnt overwhelmingly positive.

I don't know what to tell you, but Bengals aren't getting a ton of high-priced players in FA.

They simply don't have enough cap to do it.

You're going to have to settle for players in the $5-10 mill range.

They actually have the cash on hand to make it work for a couple of solid oline guys and one DT.  It's not just cap, as you are well aware.

However you are most likely correct, regardless of cap or cash we wont see what we would really hope for...


We could get one of these centers and the average of each position group for under 35M cap hit, depending on signing bonuses, IMO.

C:  Jensen or Bozeman.   11-13M

T:  T Brown (hi)/ Moses (med)/ Ifedi (lo).   7-11M

G:  Tomlinson or Corbett (hi)/ Cappa or Karras or Norwell (med)/ Willliams (lo).  6-10M

DT:  Hill or Ogunjobi (and a low cost vet)  7-9M

CB:   D Jackson or D Williams (hi)/ R Douglas (med)/ Witherspoon or S Jones (lo)   4-10M

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022-nfl-free-agency-rankings-the-100-best-free-agents-from-von-miller-to-bobby-wagner-and-more/

I found this interesting on Prisco analysis on OL. Some are just average pass blockers and I don't want average pass protectors in front of Burrow.
Allen for example not rated high in pass blocking.

[casear2727]

(03-11-2022, 10:40 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022-nfl-free-agency-rankings-the-100-best-free-agents-from-von-miller-to-bobby-wagner-and-more/

I found this interesting on Prisco analysis on OL. Some are just average pass blockers and I don't want average pass protectors in front of Burrow.
Allen for example not rated high in pass blocking.

Collins would be a heck of a get at RT

Not sure just a 3rd gets him with a handful of teams interested.  Draft swap may be in play.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2022, 09:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: A mid-level CB for depth and competition will allow them to draft a DE in Rd 1 (assuming they also add an OT/G or C and G also) and load up that defensive line with pass rushers including the returning Ossai.  There are some real potential contributors from the draft this year.  

Oh yeah, love the Defensive players in this Draft. We can go far in making our Defense elite if we just take care of the OL in FA.

It is really simple. I just want to see it done. Speak it into existence. Daniels and Morgan Moses at the very least then we can go 
after those players that make our Defense elite. We have a great foundation on the Defense as long as we keep BJ Hill around and
as you say add a mid level CB for depth. Lou is very good at coaching Secondary players.

[*bfine32*]

Where we now after signing Karras, Cappa, and Hill?

[phil413]

(03-11-2022, 10:42 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Collins would be a heck of a get at RT

Not sure just a 3rd gets him with a handful of teams interested.  Draft swap may be in play.

In light of some of these deals, they can still fit 10M for a heck of a RT and still draft a corner if they are amond bpa in the 1st.  Hopefully they can get Collins for a 3rd.