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(03-12-2022, 01:21 AM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I won’t be mad if they get Collins but he just seems like a knuckle head.
Missing multiple drug tests, punching a guy/getting suspended. He’s a very good O lineman but he's anything but reliable. If they can get him for a decent deal then I guess it’s worth the risk. I would just be waiting for him to do something stupid and miss games.
That's a legitimate concern. He does have a former coach in Pollack, a solid locker room and a mentor in Willie to hopefully prevent anything stupid.
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(03-12-2022, 01:21 AM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I won’t be mad if they get Collins but he just seems like a knuckle head.
Missing multiple drug tests, punching a guy/getting suspended. He’s a very good O lineman but he's anything but reliable. If they can get him for a decent deal then I guess it’s worth the risk. I would just be waiting for him to do something stupid and miss games.
I posted a YouTube link in the other Collins thread but if he's getting a flag/ejection/small suspension defending our QB, I gladly take that "character flaw". Agree about the drug test and bribing though.
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He sounds like a glass eater.
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Dolphins may be our most serious competition for Collins. They currently have about $47M in cap space and need both tackles. They seem to have been the leader for Armstead but Collins is such a better deal.
If this becomes a bidding war and becomes expensive Miami has the #29 pick, we would have to offer 2 picks....
I know many think #31 is way too expensive. I can make a case that it isnt.
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(03-11-2022, 07:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pollack coached Collins when he was with the Cowboys?
That seems a little far back like before Collins was drafted but I could be wrong, I thought Collins was younger than that?
Pollack was Dallas' OL coach for Collins' first three years in the league (2015-17).
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(03-12-2022, 02:34 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Dolphins may be our most serious competition for Collins. They currently have about $47M in cap space and need both tackles. They seem to have been the leader for Armstead but Collins is such a better deal.
If this becomes a bidding war and becomes expensive Miami has the #29 pick, we would have to offer 2 picks....
I know many think #31 is way too expensive. I can make a case that it isnt.
Unfortunately I have to agree, but that's a hard pill to swallow when you can save that pick and go sign Trent Brown or Moses to a 2 year deal for similar money. I obviously prefer Collins, but we're more than one piece away from feeling like a repeat super bowl contender (AFCW is the division to beat in '22). We may need pick 31 to address LG/RG, maybe FS (if they don't feel confident about Bates re-signing), maybe DT (pending Hill/Larry O). We have more picks, but your value is only dropping tremendously from our first to our second pick.
To clear the air here, I'm not going to be pissed if we give up #31 for Collins. I don't believe there's a better RT available right now. And you're sure as hell not getting the same production from anyone at #31. You do have to keep in mind the swirling comments about his character. With us being such a high class/leadership only type of roster, do you really want to take that chance in bringing a cancer to your locker room? Regardless of opinions, you don't hear the same remarks about one Bengal on our roster.
Like I said, if we trade #31 for Collins, okay. I don't know if that's honestly up for discussion though. If we do want to give up #31, maybe see what Houston wants for Tunsil? I know the difference in cost, but you're not going to hear as many complaints about giving up #31 for him versus Collins. And it could take more than #31 for Tunsil, sure.
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(03-12-2022, 12:49 AM)bfine32 Wrote: But could it be that those that favor the trade do not realize why folks are opposed to it?
I can understand why people would be down on La'el Collins as he has some red flags. I just break it down as a low risk/high reward situation.
First I look at his injury history which isnt bad he missed 2020 with a hip but came back and played at a very high level in 2021 so no worries there. Then it's the suspension and that's ugly but we see suspensions of these kind alot in the NFL. Last year Pooka Williams was suspended from PEDs before that it was Alex Redmond, Vontaze Burfict, Bobby Williams...
I see the suspension as having a positive and negative result. Negative is if he does something again then he will receive a season long suspension. Now the positive is he forfeits all guarenteed money in his contract that essentially turns Collin's contract into 3 separate 1 year 10 mil each with zero dead money if the Bengals decide to move on from him.
La'el Collins' play on the field speaks for itself. He is one of the best Right Tackles in the NFL and plays with a nasty streak that could set the tone for the rest of the Bengal's Offensive Line. Looking at the Tackle Free Agency he is better than every one of them and because of his contract situation he isn't locked in for multiple years like any of the other guys would be in the Bengals bring them in. As for the draft unlike last year there isn't an Offensive Tackle I would be comfortable going into the season with as a starter that will likely be available at #31 or #63.
Because of the one big red flag I don't want to give up a high draft pick but as I suggested a swap would be the best option allowing them to keep at least 3 picks in the top 100.
Low Risk/High Reward.
Edit: Also if the Bengals really do get Ryan Jensen as it's been hinted at from every direction. I wonder if they could slip in Trey Hopkins as part of the deal for La'el Collins since they need IOL. Hopkins cap hit would be cheap for them (5.8mil) with only a 200k roster bonus as the only guaranteed money.
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(03-12-2022, 07:20 AM)Bengalpool Wrote: Unfortunately I have to agree, but that's a hard pill to swallow when you can save that pick and go sign Trent Brown or Moses to a 2 year deal for similar money. I obviously prefer Collins, but we're more than one piece away from feeling like a repeat super bowl contender (AFCW is the division to beat in '22). We may need pick 31 to address LG/RG, maybe FS (if they don't feel confident about Bates re-signing), maybe DT (pending Hill/Larry O). We have more picks, but your value is only dropping tremendously from our first to our second pick.
To clear the air here, I'm not going to be pissed if we give up #31 for Collins. I don't believe there's a better RT available right now. And you're sure as hell not getting the same production from anyone at #31. You do have to keep in mind the swirling comments about his character. With us being such a high class/leadership only type of roster, do you really want to take that chance in bringing a cancer to your locker room? Regardless of opinions, you don't hear the same remarks about one Bengal on our roster.
Like I said, if we trade #31 for Collins, okay. I don't know if that's honestly up for discussion though. If we do want to give up #31, maybe see what Houston wants for Tunsil? I know the difference in cost, but you're not going to hear as many complaints about giving up #31 for him versus Collins. And it could take more than #31 for Tunsil, sure.
Depends on what you define as cancerous remarks. I consider the way Eli Apple opens his mouth as cancerous for our organization, Bates crying about his contract cancerous. But yea, neither have received suspensions for those so I can see whats being said as fact as well.
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(03-12-2022, 08:47 AM)Synric Wrote: I can understand why people would be down on La'el Collins as he has some red flags. I just break it down as a low risk/high reward situation.
First I look at his injury history which isnt bad he missed 2020 with a hip but came back and played at a very high level in 2021 so no worries there. Then it's the suspension and that's ugly but we see suspensions of these kind alot in the NFL. Last year Pooka Williams was suspended from PEDs before that it was Alex Redmond, Vontaze Burfict, Bobby Williams...
I see the suspension as having a positive and negative result. Negative is if he does something again then he will receive a season long suspension. Now the positive is he forfeits all guarenteed money in his contract that essentially turns Collin's contract into 3 separate 1 year 10 mil each with zero dead money if the Bengals decide to move on from him.
La'el Collins' play on the field speaks for itself. He is one of the best Right Tackles in the NFL and plays with a nasty streak that could set the tone for the rest of the Bengal's Offensive Line. Looking at the Tackle Free Agency he is better than every one of them and because of his contract situation he isn't locked in for multiple years like any of the other guys would be in the Bengals bring them in. As for the draft unlike last year there isn't an Offensive Tackle I would be comfortable going into the season with as a starter that will likely be available at #31 or #63.
Because of the one big red flag I don't want to give up a high draft pick but as I suggested a swap would be the best option allowing them to keep at least 3 picks in the top 100.
Low Risk/High Reward.
Edit: Also if the Bengals really do get Ryan Jensen as it's been hinted at from every direction. I wonder if they could slip in Trey Hopkins as part of the deal for La'el Collins since they need IOL. Hopkins cap hit would be cheap for them (5.8mil) with only a 200k roster bonus as the only guaranteed money.
I think at this point, I'd also be willing to eat SOME (like 1-2M cap). Even if we did that, for all intents and purposes, Collins would coast 11-12M for us this year and would give our offer a bit of increased value.
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Schefter is reporting this morning that if they don’t work out a trade Collins will be released.
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(03-12-2022, 11:35 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote:
3 and A 5…. Then keep on keeping on.
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(03-12-2022, 07:20 AM)Bengalpool Wrote: Unfortunately I have to agree, but that's a hard pill to swallow when you can save that pick and go sign Trent Brown or Moses to a 2 year deal for similar money. I obviously prefer Collins, but we're more than one piece away from feeling like a repeat super bowl contender (AFCW is the division to beat in '22). We may need pick 31 to address LG/RG, maybe FS (if they don't feel confident about Bates re-signing), maybe DT (pending Hill/Larry O). We have more picks, but your value is only dropping tremendously from our first to our second pick.
To clear the air here, I'm not going to be pissed if we give up #31 for Collins. I don't believe there's a better RT available right now. And you're sure as hell not getting the same production from anyone at #31. You do have to keep in mind the swirling comments about his character. With us being such a high class/leadership only type of roster, do you really want to take that chance in bringing a cancer to your locker room? Regardless of opinions, you don't hear the same remarks about one Bengal on our roster.
Like I said, if we trade #31 for Collins, okay. I don't know if that's honestly up for discussion though. If we do want to give up #31, maybe see what Houston wants for Tunsil? I know the difference in cost, but you're not going to hear as many complaints about giving up #31 for him versus Collins. And it could take more than #31 for Tunsil, sure.
You make some good points. As to what lineman we could draft I simply cant un-forget that we have drafted exactly 1 decent olineman in the last 10 years and he gave 10 sacks this season...
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(03-12-2022, 11:47 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Not happening period
https://twitter.com/toddarcher/status/1502652486053675008?s=21
I am trying to keep up with all of your absolute will/wont happen posts... if you're right, it will suck terribly.
His injury was 2 years ago and his suspension is why he is a discount... if he had no issues we would have zero chance to get him.
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(03-12-2022, 11:47 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Not happening period
https://twitter.com/toddarcher/status/1502652486053675008?s=21
What does this tweet have to do with Cincy potentially acquiring Collins?
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(03-12-2022, 12:16 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: What does this tweet have to do with Cincy potentially acquiring Collins?
Exactly, that is a Cowboys guy.
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(03-12-2022, 12:11 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I am trying to keep up with all of your absolute will/wont happen posts... if you're right, it will suck terribly.
I’m not talking out of my rear I promise. Still JMHO and no inside info but my opinion is indeed based on solid info on knowing they aren’t taking chances on guys with these type pasts. Injury plus suspension plus Cowboys not happy with him? Not happening
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(03-12-2022, 12:16 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: What does this tweet have to do with Cincy potentially acquiring Collins?
With FA out there JMHO I don’t see us making a trade and paying a lot of our cap space on a guy with injury history, suspension history, and not well thought of by MGT. ?♂️
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(03-12-2022, 12:20 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’m not talking out of my rear I promise. Still JMHO and no inside info but my opinion is indeed based on solid info on knowing they aren’t taking chances on guys with these type pasts. Injury plus suspension plus Cowboys not happy with him? Not happening
How can you say no inside info when every post you make is "the Bengals will absolutely do this or that"?
Im not sure you truly know as much as you think, why did Collins miss 2020? He actually could have played but decided on hip surgery. This actually pissed off the Cowboys according to their insiders.
Collins took 180 drug tests, he missed 7. One of them was when the Cowboys strength coach died.
The Bengals would know before other teams if he was a terrible person since Pollack coached him and Willie is his mentor. If they wouldn't touch him why were we one of the first teams mentioned that spoke with the Cowboys?
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