What Would La’el Collins Cost in Trade?

[jfkbengals]

By all accounts Collins will be released, so keep the picks and players that would be required via trade and add him to the list of FAs. If he is the best fit of the available FA tackles, sign him.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 11:43 AM)CoachGeorge Wrote: If the entirety of your opinion is based on PFF grades that tells me you’re not an OL guy.  I am.  Just as there are not 13 centers higher rated than Ryan Jensen based on questionable PFF grades (he is a top 5 at the minimum), there is no way La’el’s pass blocking is top 5.  Top 10 maybe, but I doubt it. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t object to his signing at all.  I certainly wouldn’t give up our 1st and 2nd round picks for him. And there are other ways to greatly improve the pass protection of the OL (read IOL).

I dont disagree, and Jensen is a perfect example. I will say this past year wasnt Collins best, yet it far surpasses our guys by a long shot. The guy is very good, but more importantly his contract is unbelievable team friendly to the point we could add that 3rd guy on the line.


As to draft picks who at #31 or later would have a greater impact this season and next more than Collins?  Thanks in advance.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 12:39 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: By all accounts Collins will be released, so keep the picks and players that would be required via trade and add him to the list of FAs.  If he is the best fit of the available FA tackles, sign him.

Picks are risky and way overvalued.
Taylor Moton just signed a 4 year - $71M deal with $43M guaranteed... that is Collins range and impacts other signings.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 11:52 AM)Bengalpool Wrote: You seem to be paying more attention to this from the Cowboys side than I am. Do you think they release him? I seen a tweet this morning by some unverified account (lotta people say its legit, but idk) that the Cowboys plan on releasing him. Really hope we can work a trade out. That contract is just as attractive as Collins himself... 

The Cowboys insiders are really inside. Our small front office is pretty tight lipped. 

Our insiders have zero clue what is going right now.  These guys knew the all the offers on Cooper prior to the trade.

No idea how it will turn out but the majority of those guys obviously want some value out of Collins, they are adamant the Cowboys wont want until June 1 to do something as that results in dead money roll over into 2023 and Jerry apparently wants a clean slate and over 70M in cap available next year.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 11:56 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think that the Cowboys want at minimum a #1 and a late rounder. They’ll find someone. Lots of teams desperate. But I’ve warmed up to taking Collins. If we don’t have to give up more than a 2nd rounder. Get a good center in FA and draft best available guard or tackle at #31. Still leaves corner exposed. Would like a corner @ 63

I knew I'd get a couple of conversions but you Sooner?  Excellent!  LOL 

If the Cowboys want a 1st Rounder the Dolphins are still in better shape than us but we are right there.  No team will use a mid to early pick, the Raiders at 22 most likely wouldnt.  Miami is at 29 and then us at 31. And any trade involving a 1st or 2nd would involve a swap in some manner. Not sure anyone believes the trade will involve a 1st rounder though.

2nd Rd is more likely and not sure how realistic that is, but the Dolphins have #50, Raiders are at 53.... 

Armstead to Miami could help us....?

 

[Ell Prez]

(03-13-2022, 01:04 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I knew I'd get a couple of conversions but you Sooner?  Excellent!  LOL 

If the Cowboys want a 1st Rounder the Dolphins are still in better shape than us but we are right there.  No team will use a mid to early pick, the Raiders at 22 most likely wouldnt.  Miami is at 29 and then us at 31. And any trade involving a 1st or 2nd would involve a swap in some manner. Not sure anyone believes the trade will involve a 1st rounder though.

2nd Rd is more likely and not sure how realistic that is, but the Dolphins have #50, Raiders are at 53.... 

Armstead to Miami could help us....?

 

Cowboys will cut Collins if they can’t trade him. I don’t think it’s going to take any pick greater than a 3rd. Possibly our 4th.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 01:14 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Cowboys will cut Collins if they can’t trade him. I don’t think it’s going to take any pick greater than a 3rd. Possibly our 4th.

Everyone has their own opinion on cost, really depends on how many bidders they have and how bad teams want the guy.  

As I mentioned, any pick straight up for Collins is expected to be a 3rd or 4th according to the Cowboys Insiders - so you might be right on target.

I honestly have no idea.  

[CoachGeorge]

(03-13-2022, 12:51 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont disagree, and Jensen is a perfect example. I will say this past year wasnt Collins best, yet it far surpasses our guys by a long shot. The guy is very good, but more importantly his contract is unbelievable team friendly to the point we could add that 3rd guy on the line.


As to draft picks who at #31 or later would have a greater impact this season and next more than Collins?  Thanks in advance.

You’re correct, it wasn’t his best season it was his 2nd best season. Which begs the question is why have the fans and FO so easily want this guy gone? He has 10 starts in 2 years and there was seemingly no steep drop off by his replacements (Steele, etc.). Again, this is where his pass blocking matters. Cowboys recognize that what’s good for Dak is good for Dallas.

At pick 31, I would hope Zion or Lindenbaum drops (or a CB). That’s one starter. Add $10 million for another starter for the OL. That’s 2 starters vs. Collins by himself. I favor the former not the latter all things considered.

[*bfine32*]

(03-13-2022, 03:50 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I guess it is my job to make you look stupid.... 

I said he is the best RT and I proved this several posts ago



.

You might want to take a break from doing your job of making other look stupid and research Ryan Ramczyk

[Schmitbuck]

Man this thread is exhausting.

[J24]

(03-13-2022, 02:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You might want to take a break from doing your job of making other look stupid and research Ryan Ramczyk

He's available?

[Bengalbug]

(03-13-2022, 12:39 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: By all accounts Collins will be released, so keep the picks and players that would be required via trade and add him to the list of FAs. If he is the best fit of the available FA tackles, sign him.

Nah, you get him as a free agent and you will have more money committted.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 02:14 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: You’re correct, it wasn’t his best season it was his 2nd best season.  Which begs the question is why have the fans and FO so easily want this guy gone?  He has 10 starts in 2 years and there was seemingly no steep drop off by his replacements (Steele, etc.). Again, this is where his pass blocking matters.  Cowboys recognize that what’s good for Dak is good for Dallas.

At pick 31, I would hope Zion or Lindenbaum drops (or a CB).  That’s one starter.  Add $10 million for another starter for the OL.  That’s 2 starters vs. Collins by himself.  I favor the former not the latter all things considered.

It makes sense on paper.  But it looks like Zion is moving in the wrong direction.  Linderbaum most likely not there either.  Still, neither are tackles and this FA class is weak at tackle. Is there a guy you like in FA?  Armstead isnt an option, T Brown?

Also we have drafted ONE decent oline starter in 10 years and he isnt great and drafted #11.  So you have more faith in our staff than I do when it comes to picking big guys.  Im hoping this new hire is a strong evaluator.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 02:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You might want to take a break from doing your job of making other look stupid and research Ryan Ramczyk

The inaccuracy was your friend's misconception of all tackles vs RTs.

Yes Ramczyk is very good and better.  Happy pumpkin?

[pulses]

(03-13-2022, 07:06 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Well you did "misquote" me and I corrected you....

Im not a wanna be GM I only want the best blockers for our QB.  Kinda like we all used too, but then some folks changed their minds and decided to value risky draft picks over the top RT in the league... maybe too beholden to their mock drafts?

All I have done is squelch the uninformed worry of an injury that was 2 years ago and explained the non-event suspension, but people want to demand choir boy character over excellent production.  And the thing is the guy hasn't really done anything crazy to warrant this scrutiny.

If everyone is allowed to have an opinion that includes me as well, right?  My opinion is that it would be silly to want a lesser - yet way more expensive player over a better one with an extremely team friendly and inexpensive contract.


My take is that this is the most vital offseason in Bengals history.  We have an incredible opportunity to fix our number one need and then some.  This is possible because the best RT in the league had some issues the last couple of years.  But instead of taking advantage of this opportunity people like you complain about the very non-serious issues that put us in this position.

I understand I keep repeating myself but you and others will not answer which player you believe we can draft that would have a more profound impact than Collins?

Im not suggesting we offer more than it would take to get him, but if there truly is no other player at his high level the pick shouldn't matter.

If people are still concerned over Collins missing 7 tests out 187 two years ago for a substance that is no longer banned or him telling a tester he would "hook him up" if he ever tested positive for weed or missed a test, please fill us in on how that outweighs the positives this signing could have on our team? for the next 3 years?

It's simply a potential NFL player transaction that likely wont happen and regardless if it does or doesnt there isnt any need to get your feelings involved. 

You're allowed to have one but stop cramming it down everyone's throats in multiple threads like some wanna be GM.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 04:01 PM)pulses Wrote: You're allowed to have one but stop cramming it down everyone's throats in multiple threads like some wanna be GM.

I didnt know we were limited to how many posts we were were allowed to make? 

I was unaware you were the board master?   I've been reading here since 2015-16, I think this is my 3rd user name, didnt post often but been around a while.   You tell me the board parameters and I'll try to abide.

I think some of us need to have lunch to discuss civilly, as there is no way you would be this disrespectful in person. Bfine is invited as well.

Brian Poe btw, nice to meet you.

@bpoe_tweets if you want to hit me up on twitter... 

[fredtoast]

(03-13-2022, 03:57 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Also we have drafted ONE decent oline starter in 10 years and he isnt great and drafted #11.  So you have more faith in our staff than I do when it comes to picking big guys. 

Did Higgins fail because we drafted Ross?

When was the last time we drafted a good DE before Hubbard?

Prior failures don't mean current picks will be failures.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 04:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Did Higgins fail because we drafted Ross?

When was the last time we drafted a good DE before Hubbard?

Prior failures don't mean current picks will be failures.

I guess that is true... but 10 years is enough of a pattern to instill a lack of faith....

We drafted Dunlap, then only 3 others before Hubbard in a 7 year span. Want to guess how many oline we have drafted in this 10 year drought?

[pulses]

(03-13-2022, 04:08 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I didnt know we were limited to how many posts we were were allowed to make? 

I was unaware you were the board master?   I've been reading here since 2015-16, I think this is my 3rd user name, didnt post often but been around a while.   You tell me the board parameters and I'll try to abide.

I think some of us need to have lunch to discuss civilly, as there is no way you would be this disrespectful in person. Bfine is invited as well.

Brian Poe btw, nice to meet you.

@bpoe_tweets if you want to hit me up on twitter... 

Well unless you're blind their have been others who mentioned maybe you should cool it down a bit...FYI.  Not really nice to meet someone who calls others stupid in a thread because they don't agree with your opinion.  Good Day!

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 04:20 PM)pulses Wrote: Well unless you're blind their have been others who mentioned maybe you should cool it down a bit...FYI.  Not really nice to meet someone who calls others stupid in a thread because they don't agree with your opinion.  Good Day!

Im fine with disagreement, you actually were a tad more aggressive because you couldnt provide context when asked by me and others as to your point.  I'll apologize for the use of the word stupid, but in that case you were mocking and absolutely wrong about what I said.

Anonymity is such a great thing for some.  I promise you that I will be as respectful in person as I am online.  And Im fine with anyone that wants to meet up and talk Bengals or whatever.