Are we over-rating CJ Uzomah?

[*pally*]

(03-13-2022, 08:17 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Re-sign him or draft a guy for cheaper because Gronk is probably staying in TB now that Brady is playing another year with the Bucs.

and Ertz is staying in Arizona

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-13-2022, 08:07 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: No I mean over-rating his skill.  He is clearly good, but he is also in one of the best situations a TE could ask to be in.  Three bonafide stud WRs that a secondary has to worry about and an elite QB finding him.  

In regards to targets, receptions, yards and tds, his composite slot is 12.5. That would put him in the 8.2 to 8.5M range as far as AAV goes. 

Take that for what it's worth, which could be nothing...

[fredtoast]

(03-13-2022, 08:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He's probably average to slightly below average as a starting te.

This is not true at all.  He just does not get many targets because of the top 3 WRs we have.

Uzomah is one of the best combinations of size (6'6", 260) and speed (4.6 forty) in the league.  .  .    There were 47 TEs with at least 200 receiving yards last year who were more than just a "third OT".  None of them were taller than CJ.  Only 6 were heavier, but none by more than 7 lbs.  .  .  .  Coming out of college his 4.6 forty time was in the 90th percentile for TEs and would have made him the 2nd fastest TE at the combine.

If you look at his "efficiency" numbers instead of just totals you will see his value more.  Among the 47 TEs with at least 200 receiving yards Uzo ranked 8th in catch percentage and 17th in yards per target.

I don't see anyway possible he could be considered below average as a starting TE.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 08:41 PM)Joelist Wrote: This is where you have to be careful. Regardless of whether CJ is "elite" he is one of the emotional leaders of the team (along with Burrow). Moving on from CJ has to be done delicately lest you wreck the locker room in the process.

I kinda have a hard time with this. And not personal to you Joe.

But CJ is a leader of who?  Not our QB, Mixon? Chase? Boyd is more leader. Im not sure CJ leads Sample. He is a great guy, a hype guy, very good media guy... but leader?

I also think "delicately" doesnt give the other guys - better players - enough credit. They will all be happy for CJ if he moves on for more money.

I felt the same with many on Twitter worried the about the locker room if Bates was tagged.  As if DJ Reader, Hilton, Bell, Hub, Trey, Wilson and Pratt would melt if Bates was tagged (poor guy being the youngest, highest paid guy on D)

In my opinion, these guys are pros, they understand the biz and play with different rosters every season.  I would cut any player that blamed a poor season on us not re-signing our 5th option on offense...

Again Joe, not directed at you. I just see this in other places and wonder if someone asked Mixon about overcoming the emotional impact to our team due to CJ getting a better contract elsewhere... 

[QueenCity]

I think moving on from Tyler Boyd would give us the flexibility to pay CJ + O line. That would the route i'd take or replace Boyd with Mixon in this scenario.

Do not think those getting rid of those two guys will impact team chemistry as much.

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-13-2022, 08:52 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I kinda have a hard time with this. And not personal to you Joe.

But CJ is a leader of who?  Not our QB, Mixon? Chase? Boyd is more leader. Im not sure CJ leads Sample. He is a great guy, a hype guy, very good media guy... but leader?

I also think "delicately" doesnt give the other guys - better players - enough credit. They will all be happy for CJ if he moves on for more money.

I felt the same with many on Twitter worried the about the locker room if Bates was tagged.  As if DJ Reader, Hilton, Bell, Hub, Trey, Wilson and Pratt would melt if Bates was tagged (poor guy being the youngest, highest paid guy on D)

In my opinion, these guys are pros, they understand the biz and play with different rosters every season.  I would cut any player that blamed a poor season on us not re-signing our 5th option on offense...

Again Joe, not directed at you. I just see this in other places and wonder if someone asked Mixon about overcoming the emotional impact to our team due to CJ getting a better contract elsewhere... 

I don't agree with him leaving wrecking the locker room but he's definitely a vocal leader on the team. 

[*michaelsean*]

(03-13-2022, 08:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is not true at all.  He just does not get many targets because of the top 3 WRs we have.

Uzomah is one of the best combinations of size (6'6", 260) and speed (4.6 forty) in the league.  .  .    There were 47 TEs with at least 200 receiving yards last year who were more than just a "third OT".  None of them were taller than CJ.  Only 6 were heavier, but none by more than 7 lbs.  .  .  .  Coming out of college his 4.6 forty time was in the 90th percentile for TEs and would have made him the 2nd fastest TE at the combine.

If you look at his "efficiency" numbers instead of just totals you will see his value more.  Among the 47 TEs with at least 200 receiving yards Uzo ranked 8th in catch percentage and 17th in yards per target.

I don't see anyway possible he could be considered below average as a starting TE.

I ‘d love to see him stay here, and with this combined with leadership it seems to make sense. I don’t know where he’s ranked in YAC, but he seems pretty darn good in that area. Assuming some team doesn’t offer him insane money, I hope he’s back.

[casear2727]

I want to be clear I like CJ, met him. Wonderful person and a good TE. There are simply better out there skill-wise.

I keep seeing "leader" in every post - I think players see a difference in a hype guy vs a leader. Leadership is kinda earned and we have several leaders.

I watched one show in which players were making fun of other players when they were mic'd up and "over doing it" - not accusing CJ of this I believe he is very genuine.

I just think true leadership is shown on the field and by example. I think CJ is great for our team culture and our fanbase.

Im trying to not sound like a dick, but my vocabulary isnt as prolific as it needs to be to make this point.

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-13-2022, 08:59 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I ‘d love to see him stay here, and with this combined with leadership it seems to make sense. I don’t know where he’s ranked in YAC, but he seems pretty darn good in that area. Assuming some team doesn’t offer him insane money, I hope he’s back.

6th in YAC, 11th in YAC/r. 

[Bengalpool]

(03-13-2022, 08:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2018....43 rec... 439 yds... 10.2 avg... 3 td 
2021....49 rec... 493 yds... 10.1 avg... 5 td 

If that's your standard for relevant, touché. I believe we can find better production at the TE position for a similar price. What do you think?

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-13-2022, 09:06 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I want to be clear I like CJ, met him. Wonderful person and a good TE. There are simply better out there skill-wise.

I keep seeing "leader" in every post - I think players see a difference in a hype guy vs a leader.  Leadership is kinda earned and we have several leaders.

I watched one show in which players were making fun of other players when they were mic'd up and "over doing it" - not accusing CJ of this I believe he is very genuine.  

I just think true leadership is shown on the field and by example.  I think CJ is great for our team culture and our fanbase.

Im trying to not sound like a dick, but my vocabulary isnt as prolific as it needs to be to make this point.

To that point, in my two previous posts, his composite rank for targets, receptions, yards and tds is 12.5--just outside the top 10. And he's 6 in total YAC. 

I'd give him that he shows it on the field. 

His current market value, per sportrac is 8.2M, which lines up with what i posted before and i don't see any names on the TE FA market that i would take over him, with Gronk likely staying in TB. Maybe OJ Howard, with his athleticism. That's about it for me.  

EDIT: from what he appears, it wouldn't surprise me to see him take a team-friendly deal to stay with Burrow.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 09:15 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: To that point, in my two previous posts, his composite rank for targets, receptions, yards and tds is 12.5--just outside the top 10. And he's 6 in total YAC. 

I'd give him that he shows it on the field. 

His current market value, per sportrac is 8.2M, which lines up with what i posted before and i don't see any names on the TE FA market that i would take over him, with Gronk likely staying in TB. Maybe OJ Howard, with his athleticism. That's about it for me.  

EDIT: from what he appears, it wouldn't surprise me to see him take a team-friendly deal to stay with Burrow.

I think he had a very good year, but a low ceiling.  Even with his good year for him its not on the level of a Burrow, Chase, Mixon etc... guys that can really take charge of the team.  I have never heard a player say CJ is a leader, they all say Burrow is our leader. Many have said Bates and DJ are leaders. 

I think they all love CJ and he is a super culture guy.  I just have a hang up with the "leader" tag with the other guys we have on our team... if that makes sense?

[BrownAssClown]

CJ is a decent TE. If the front office deems an upgrade is needed they should try and find one. If they want to resign Uzomah, they should offer him a deal that reflects his production, if he isn't satisfied with what's offered , he's free to look elsewhere. I guess we'll see if we overvalue or undervalue him by he new deal he gets.

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-13-2022, 09:27 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think he had a very good year, but a low ceiling.  Even with his good year for him its not on the level of a Burrow, Chase, Mixon etc... guys that can really take charge of the team.  I have never heard a player say CJ is a leader, they all say Burrow is our leader. Many have said Bates and DJ are leaders. 

I think they all love CJ and he is a super culture guy.  I just have a hang up with the "leader" tag with the other guys we have on our team... if that makes sense?

Yep. 

A lot of people may see those as the same thing.

[Soonerpeace]

I don’t know who is not retained but I can promise you and I know 1000% that Zac doesn’t want to mess up the dynamics of the teams culture. It’s the best in the NFL and although he’s not been with teams more than 10 years he’s values the heck out of this one. He won’t let it get to messed up. The Blackburns and Mike Brown to a fault get real close to the players. I’ll be shocked if C J isn’t back.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 09:55 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I don’t know who is not retained but I can promise you and I know 1000% that Zac doesn’t want to mess up the dynamics of the teams culture. It’s the best in the NFL and although he’s not been with teams more than 10 years he’s values the heck out of this one. He won’t let it get to messed up. The Blackburns and Mike Brown to a fault get real close to the players. I’ll be shocked if C J isn’t back.

I agree and if any player would stay on a perceived discount it would be CJ, he is Mr Bengal.  He has a lot of collateral positives here in Cincy that would not be easy to just pick right up elsewhere.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(03-13-2022, 08:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: There are several TE's in FA and even with his best year CJ is very average.  Not a knock on him as much as there is a lot of talent in the NFL.

I don’t know. He’s been a project for a while and was drafted because of his raw talent at the time. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but he could probably do more if he wasn’t buried under 4 pro bowl/all pro players. I don’t care if they keep him or let him go, but I bet he would be many teams #3 option and a reliable red zone target with his hands.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-13-2022, 08:07 PM)pulses Wrote: This class is very deep at TE  and I have no problem drafting one in the 2nd or 3rd and let Uzo get his payday somewhere else.

I disagree.

There's a reason that no TE is considered a Rd 1 lock.
There's no top tier talent.
A bunch of guys who are either raw, TE2-type, or low TE1-type guys.

Not a good year to be needing a TE.
I believe that's why so many vets are getting tagged/re-signed.

[casear2727]

(03-13-2022, 11:07 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I don’t know. He’s been a project for a while and was drafted because of his raw talent at the time. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but he could probably do more if he wasn’t buried under 4 pro bowl/all pro players. I don’t care if they keep him or let him go, but I bet he would be many teams #3 option and a reliable red zone target with his hands.

You make a great a point. I just think we have seen the best of CJ, in my opinion he gets every ounce of potential he has, which is basically saying he has a low ceiling. The guy is 100% effort all the time and not bad by any means. There are so many really good receivers and solid blockers in the league. The talent level at TE is undervalued in my opinion.

[Okeana]

I like the guy for the right price