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(03-14-2022, 07:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah people mostly use reg season stats for comparisons and whatnot, but I also hear plenty of people combining reg season and playoff stats if the player had a big playoffs like Hill did. Stats are used in all sorts of ways to prove all sorts of points about a player's greatness or lack thereof.
Hill's playoff performance is especially relevant here, because you said he's a risk because he wasn't a starter. Well he was in the playoffs, and he was exceptional.
Based on those rankings (and throw in a great playoff run) and I'd say Hill got around what he deserved. Maybe a tiny overpay, but maybe not. Contracts are always increasing as the cap does.
Just trying to make you feel better, bro. I don't think it's as bad as your initial sticker shock when you provide context.
Well said, could be a bit of an overpay, could be a bargain, dude is young and now gets his chance to really show how good he is.
He sure showed up when it counted and we needed him to. I am happy we recognized this and rewarded him.
This is how you should do these things and I for one love what we have done today in getting Cappa and Karras and bringing back
BJ Hill who I thought was a must player to extend. Young, talented and versatile DT going into his prime. Would of been pizzed if
we paid Ogunjobi what he got from the Bears. We got the better deal and if we cut Waynes and Hop we can add a RT and really
free up the Draft.
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Happy to have BJ back, but would much rather have Larry O. if I could only take one of the two. Larry seems to be far more disruptive in both the passing and running game.
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(03-14-2022, 10:11 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Happy to have BJ back, but would much rather have Larry O. if I could only take one of the two. Larry seems to be far more disruptive in both the passing and running game.
On splash plays maybe, but I definitely wouldn't of paid Larry O what he got from the Bears, actually I would of been PO'ed big time.
BJ Hill is a much better run stopper, Larry O gets a TFL here and there but overall is very inconsistent against the run.
BJ Hill is also younger and can grow in the pass rushing department and can pick the ball off lol
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(03-14-2022, 10:11 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Happy to have BJ back, but would much rather have Larry O. if I could only take one of the two. Larry seems to be far more disruptive in both the passing and running game.
BJ Hill was more consistent. PFF also had him rated 20 points higher than Larry O. Glad to have him for 10M less. Great work Bengals brass.
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(03-14-2022, 05:43 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: He tweeted after Joe got sacked on the last play of the SB "don't look at me, wasn't my fault" or something similar to that. He kind of sucks on social media.
Does Spain not understand anybody can watch the Bengals last play of the Super Bowl? Its on NFL.com and has been posted several times. It was clearly his fault. Perine was running a route out of the backfield and was on the right side of the line so he wasnt going to help. Jonah was locked up with his guy so Jonah couldnt help. The one person that could have helped was Hopkins if Spain had forced Donald to the inside but Spain let Donald go around him to the outside where he had no help. That's on Spain. He had help on the inside but he let Donald get to the outside and beat him. Whose fault does Spain think it is, if its not his?
https://www.nfl.com/videos/can-t-miss-play-aaron-donald-s-pressure-on-burrow-seals-super-bowl-lvi-win-for-r
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(03-14-2022, 10:19 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: BJ Hill was more consistent. PFF also had him rated 20 points higher than Larry O. Glad to have him for 10M less. Great work Bengals brass.
I can't believe the contract Larry O signed.
The Bears could have added like one of the best lineman for that.
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(03-14-2022, 05:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I know, right? It's so stupid when people claim we gave up 70 sacks last year. Those playoff ones shouldn't count. 
Fine. Let's roll with 5.5 sacks and the 70.4 PFF grade.. Where did those place him among DTs?
I could go either way with Spain as well, but it may be difficult to (solidly) replace 4 of 5 o-line spots in one off-season.
For the entire year,
Grade - 18th
Pressures - 22nd (11 above him played more than 17 games)
Sacks - 9th (4 above him played more than 17 games)
Tackles - 12th
Stops - 19th
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
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(03-14-2022, 10:11 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Happy to have BJ back, but would much rather have Larry O. if I could only take one of the two. Larry seems to be far more disruptive in both the passing and running game.
Have you seen this article? Very eye opening for me regarding BJ and LO...
https://theathletic.com/3175989/2022/03/11/defining-bengals-free-agency-decisions-part-2-b-j-hill-vs-larry-ogunjobi-and-the-nightmare-scenario/
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(03-14-2022, 10:11 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Happy to have BJ back, but would much rather have Larry O. if I could only take one of the two. Larry seems to be far more disruptive in both the passing and running game.
Nope. Ogunjobi is pretty bad against the run. Hill is a much better all around player.
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(03-15-2022, 12:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Nope. Ogunjobi is pretty bad against the run. Hill is a much better all around player.
Larry gambles a lot trying to make big splash plays & shoot gaps. He does make some. But when he guesses wrong there is a huge hole in the space he vacates.
Hill is more solid & gambles less. But still makes more plays & created more pressures & sacks.
If I had to choose, I'd take Hill every time.
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(03-14-2022, 11:50 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Have you seen this article? Very eye opening for me regarding BJ and LO...
https://theathletic.com/3175989/2022/03/11/defining-bengals-free-agency-decisions-part-2-b-j-hill-vs-larry-ogunjobi-and-the-nightmare-scenario/
Can't get past the paywall.
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(03-14-2022, 10:19 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: BJ Hill was more consistent. PFF also had him rated 20 points higher than Larry O. Glad to have him for 10M less. Great work Bengals brass.
This is just another of the dozens of examples of how NFL teams ignore PFF rankings because PFF individual rankings are not that accurate.
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(03-15-2022, 12:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Nope. Ogunjobi is pretty bad against the run. Hill is a much better all around player.
Everyone is saying this but I did not see it during games.
Where is this claim coming from?
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(03-14-2022, 11:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I can't believe the contract Larry O signed.
The Bears could have added like one of the best lineman for that.
Ogunjobi is one of the best.
Larry is in his prime (27 years old), and until this year had almost zero injury issues.
if you take out the '20 season when the Browns played him out of position at NT look at where Larry ranked among DTs in these key stats.
.....................'18.......'19........'21
Tkl for loss..... 11th ... 3rd ... 3rd
Sacks............. 11th ... 8th ... 8th
QB hits........... 11th ... 5th ... 7th
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(03-15-2022, 10:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Everyone is saying this but I did not see it during games.
Where is this claim coming from?
The field.
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(03-15-2022, 12:22 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Larry gambles a lot trying to make big splash plays & shoot gaps. He does make some. But when he guesses wrong there is a huge hole in the space he vacates.
Hill is more solid & gambles less. But still makes more plays & created more pressures & sacks.
If I had to choose, I'd take Hill every time.
Larry O had more pressures than Hill did, 24 to 15. Larry also had more sacks, 7 to 5.5.
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(03-15-2022, 10:59 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The field.
I watched games. I didn't see it.
Our run defense was the strength of the defense during the regular season and I did not see us getting gashed with Larry in there.
Was there some podcast or talk show eher they showed all this film of Larry getting abused in the run game? I am just wondering what I missed?
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(03-15-2022, 11:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I watched games. I didn't see it.
Our run defense was the strength of the defense during the regular season and I did not see us getting gashed with Larry in there.
Was there some podcast or talk show eher they showed all this film of Larry getting abused in the run game? I am just wondering what I missed?
From Paul Dehner’s piece on The Athletic:
There’s quite a bit to digest, most of it revolving around how similar the two performed, specifically as pass rushers the two were close to identical in every category. I want to focus on the differences.
The major one is outlined in bold. Ogunjobi’s missed tackles are a big deal when looking for a differentiator between similar players. He finished fifth on the team in total missed tackles and worst in missed tackle percentage among defenders with at least 20 total tackles. That’s a major flaw especially when put up against Hill who was the opposite in that category.
Ogunjobi struggled with tackling his final year in Cleveland, as well, missing 14 percent of tackles, via Pro Football Focus. So, when looking at the significant discrepancy in PFF grade between the two, it almost entirely boils down to those 11 missed tackles by Ogunjobi. Awareness and inability to finish plays where he splashes into the backfield are just part of his profile at this point.
Ogunjobi had 13 missed tackles to Hills’s 2 (22.4% to 3.6%), and a lower stop % (8.50% to 9.20%).
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(03-15-2022, 08:18 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Can't get past the paywall.
Sorry about that.
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