BJ Hill Re-signing with Bengals

[SunsetBengal]

(03-14-2022, 04:27 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Honestly, I would totally roll with this line:

Jonah - Karras - Hopkins - Cappa - Collins (or Trent Brown).

But, I'm sure Karras was brought in to play Center. But the versatility is good!

Nah, Hopkins got to go.  He was the proverbial turnstile, most of the pressure all season came up the gut over him and RG.

(03-14-2022, 04:30 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I’d rather Williams- Spain/Jackson- Karras- Cappa- Collins/Brown.

Yes

[*Synric*]

(03-14-2022, 04:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Im dont care that much for Spain.  He crumbled in the playoffs against good defenses.  Why sign him to a 5million a year contract if you could sign Connor Williams to a 7 million per year contract.

Quinton Spain was carted off the field in week 17 skipped week 18 like most of the offense and then was playing in the playoffs. Until week 17 Spain was having one of his best years as a pro then struggled after he came back. That screams playing through injury to me.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-14-2022, 04:17 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: You say that like it’s bad. There are only 32 teams and we don’t have the highest paid anything. We are bound to have to pay somebody high. You can’t skimp on every position or you get an O-line like last year or a D-line like the year before. You want the 17 sack D-line or the 42 sack D-line?

Yes, but there are 64 starting DEs and what.. something like 48 starting DTs? (I don't know exactly how many 3-4 vs 4-3 teams there are.) So of ~132 starting DEs+DTs in the NFL, the Bengals have 3 of the top 19 paid, making your lines of "skimping" on every position and "have to pay somebody high" extremely silly.

(03-14-2022, 04:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I get it. It's a risk. But it's also a risk to let both of your awesome DT tandem (Larry O and BJ Hill) walk with no apparent replacements.

Hill played great in the playoffs as the starter without Larry O rotating with him, and I'm sure we'll plug someone else in to keep him fresh this year.

They weren't awesome a year ago. They combined for 3.5 sacks in 2020. Hill had 1.0 sacks in both 2020 and 2019.

Maybe they were in a better scheme now, or maybe they just had career years while surrounded by DL talent.

Obviously I could be wrong and we won't know until games start being played, but I think it's a huge gamble to pay Hill like this, just don't like it and I don't think it'll pay off. If it keeps them from acquiring another quality OL I will go from not liking it to outright hating it.

(03-14-2022, 04:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What's your point? 

Do we not want a good DL? Did you see what the Rams did to us in the SB? 

If you watched the Super Bowl and your takeaway was that the Bengals needed a better DL in order to win, then you weren't watching the Super Bowl.

Not to mention the Bengals aren't signing Aaron Donald or Von Miller. We're talking about BJ Hill... who by the way, they are going to be yearly paying more than 10x the amount the Rams paid Von Miller.

They also did it with a 4th round pick first time starter on their DL. 

[Nepa]

(03-14-2022, 04:21 PM)Bengalion Wrote: This deal is getting some good grades out there. According to Walter Football:

"The Bengals have to be laughing at the Bears. Chicago signed Larry Ogunjobi to a 3-year, $40.5 million deal with $26 million guaranteed. Cincinnati retained a superior player at the same position for $10 million less overall and $11 million less guaranteed.

Not only is Hill better than Ogunjobi; he's a couple of years younger as well. I think this is a slight overpay, but compared to Ogunjobi's contract, it's a huge bargain."

Link: https://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php

But the deal is not finalized yet, correct? Wouldn't Hill's agent see the above and then ask for more before the Wednesday signing?

[*ochocincos*]

(03-14-2022, 03:58 PM)Weazzel80 Wrote: Honestly, I felt like our run defense improved when Larry O got injured and BJ took over for our playoff push. I'm cool with the signing.

Definitely. Ogunjobi may be a bit better as a pass rusher, but Hill is far more well-rounded.

[Housh]

Front loaded the deal to make sure we’re good when Burrow time comes. Smart.

[kalibengal]

(03-14-2022, 03:46 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: That was a big one. Now DL doesn’t become a need this year. Honestly DB is the biggest need on defense

I like it...especially now that one of my fave guys LArry O left us
As Cappa and Karras are now in.. If we can lock down a good O Tackle in FA, I think we definitely look at Dline with pick 31

[*ochocincos*]

(03-14-2022, 04:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's a big if, Shake. He's going to be a starter now. He can't rest by playing less than half of the snaps now. Didn't we learn this lesson with Carlos Dunlap's rookie season? He only ever reached that total 1 time in the next 11 years because he had to play more snaps.

BJ Hill just feels a whole lot more like Jonathan Fanene/Wallace Gilberry. You don't massively overpay Fanene/Gilberry. You let someone else overpay them and you bring in somebody new to be the next one because you're not asking them to be the best, or even second best player on your DL. Heck, not even the third best in this case.


And being shot by a .22 is better than being shot by a .45, doesn't mean I should be excited to be shot.

I just don't like the idea of making a backup DT the 15th highest paid DT in the league based off a career year when surrounded by talent. Doubly so when you already have the 10th and 19th highest paid DEs and 11th highest paid DT.

I mean, it's worth pointing out that DJ Reader only played 52.5% of the snaps and signed a 4-year, $53 mill deal.
He makes $13.25 mill APY and barely plays above 50% of the snaps.
Hill doing about the same or possibly even more doesn't seem so bad given he's only gonna be $10 mill APY.

Plus, I think the Bengals will either add a cheaper FA or draft pick to rotate too.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-14-2022, 04:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Assuming Hopkins is the C and Karras the G, right?

Or Karras the C and Hopkins competes with Carman for LG.

Either way, yes.

I think though if they add Spain, Hopkins will be let go.

[TecmoBengals]

(03-14-2022, 04:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Or Karras the C and Hopkins competes with Carman for LG.

Either way, yes.

I think though if they add Spain, Hopkins will be let go.

I can't wait for Thursday or Friday, or whenever it happens this week, to hear what Duke & Zac have to say about the OL signings. I assume after the signings are official, we'll then get some pressers to hear from them both.

[Rubekahn29]

(03-14-2022, 04:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, but there are 64 starting DEs and what.. something like 48 starting DTs? (I don't know exactly how many 3-4 vs 4-3 teams there are.) So of ~132 starting DEs+DTs in the NFL, the Bengals have 3 of the top 19 paid, making your lines of "skimping" on every position and "have to pay somebody high" extremely silly.

Again, I think I’d rather have the 42 sack team than the 17 sack team. We already let a 7 sack DT leave, you want another 7 sack (I think including playoffs DT to leave? I’m sure we could go get Christian Covington or Marcus Hunt again. That might satisfy your wants. Hill was a huge part of our Pass rush and run stop last year. This is absolutely a fine deal. Considering what money is being thrown around.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-14-2022, 04:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They weren't awesome a year ago. They combined for 3.5 sacks in 2020. Hill had 1.0 sacks in both 2020 and 2019.

Maybe they were in a better scheme now, or maybe they just had career years while surrounded by DL talent.

Obviously I could be wrong and we won't know until games start being played, but I think it's a huge gamble to pay Hill like this, just don't like it and I don't think it'll pay off. If it keeps them from acquiring another quality OL I will go from not liking it to outright hating it.

I don't really care how they performed with the Giants and Browns. Awuzie was a meh player for the Cowboys, but great for us. Should we let him walk based on how he played for the Cowboys?

As far as the talent we have on the d-line, I remember people saying the same thing about Hendrickson. He was a risky signing. Probably a product of playing next to great players.

I don't think you can plug any scrub in at that spot and get 14 sacks like we did last year. Ogunjobi and Hill just turned out to be diamonds in the rough. It happens. Teams whiff for whatever reason, or a certain scheme or staff brings out the best in certain players.

We should have enough left to sign a solid RT.

If we have a line that looks like this:

LT - Jonah
LG - Spain
C - Karras
RG - Cappa
RT - Good Free Agent

I could live with that. We just started, and we're one guy away.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2022, 04:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm thinking Karras is penciled in at Center, and Hopkins is cleaning out his locker..

Gives them positional flexibility with how Carman’s development is coming along.

I don’t know with certainty who is in charge these past three seasons, but it ain’t the same person who is as in charge four seasons ago. Because business ain’t as usual. Three years in a row makes me believe this is the new normal.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-14-2022, 05:02 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Gives them positional flexibility with how Carman’s development is coming along.

I don’t know with certainty who is in charge these past three seasons, but it ain’t the same person who is as in charge four seasons ago. Because business ain’t as usual. Three years in a row makes me believe this is the new normal.

Yep. We've been active on day 1 for 3 years straight.

Tbh, we shouldn't be surprised moving forward.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-14-2022, 04:51 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Again, I think I’d rather have the 42 sack team than the 17 sack team. We already let a 7 sack DT leave, you want another 7 sack (I think including playoffs DT to leave? I’m sure we could go get Christian Covington or Marcus Hunt again. That might satisfy your wants. Hill was a huge part of our Pass rush and run stop last year. This is absolutely a fine deal. Considering what money is being thrown around.

Yes, you are right. The ONLY reasonable options are either paying BJ Hill $10m/yr, or going to Christian Covington and Margus Hunt. There's ZERO middle ground available. Also BJ Hill is clearly the deciding factor between 17 or 42 sacks. He got all 25 of them all on his own. Broke the NFL single-season sack record.  



Dude, you just got done trying to tell me that having 3 players in the top 19 out of ~132 is "skimping on every position". I guess I should have expected a "if you don't want BJ Hill for $10m/yr then you want Christian Covington" from you after that.

(03-14-2022, 04:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't really care how they performed with the Giants and Browns. Awuzie was a meh player for the Cowboys, but great for us. Should we let him walk based on how he played for the Cowboys?

As far as the talent we have on the d-line, I remember people saying the same thing about Hendrickson. He was a risky signing. Probably a product of playing next to great players.

I don't think you can plug any scrub in at that spot and get 14 sacks like we did last year. Ogunjobi and Hill just turned out to be diamonds in the rough. It happens. Teams whiff for whatever reason, or a certain scheme or staff brings out the best in certain players.

We should have enough left to sign a solid RT.

If we have a line that looks like this:

LT - Jonah
LG - Spain
C - Karras
RG - Cappa
RT - Good Free Agent

I could live with that. We just started, and we're one guy away.

I like how seamlessly you are both now calling BJ Hill a 7 sack player by adding together regular and post season games. So you're comparing stats he compiled over 20 games while most potential replacements will only have up to 17 games to try to fill that void as a comparison. Lol

I'm kind of done with Spain, but I would be fine with that. Need to see that happen first, though, before I dislike this signing less.

[Millhouse]

Definitely good deal all the way around since Ogunjobi is gone.

[007BengalsFan]

(03-14-2022, 04:34 PM)Nepa Wrote: But the deal is not finalized yet, correct? Wouldn't Hill's agent see the above and then ask for more before the Wednesday signing?

I might be wrong but I think the Bengals can resign their own players and not wait until Wednesday

[WeezyBengal]

(03-14-2022, 04:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont care that much for Spain.  He crumbled in the playoffs against good defenses.  Why sign him to a 5 million a year contract if you could sign Connor Williams to a 7 million per year contract.

This is assuming Williams and Spains contracts would be close to PFF prediction.

I agree. He sold his teammates out after the super bowl as well. I just don't love him. 

[WeezyBengal]

(03-14-2022, 04:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, but there are 64 starting DEs and what.. something like 48 starting DTs? (I don't know exactly how many 3-4 vs 4-3 teams there are.) So of ~132 starting DEs+DTs in the NFL, the Bengals have 3 of the top 19 paid, making your lines of "skimping" on every position and "have to pay somebody high" extremely silly.


They weren't awesome a year ago. They combined for 3.5 sacks in 2020. Hill had 1.0 sacks in both 2020 and 2019.

Maybe they were in a better scheme now, or maybe they just had career years while surrounded by DL talent.

Obviously I could be wrong and we won't know until games start being played, but I think it's a huge gamble to pay Hill like this, just don't like it and I don't think it'll pay off. If it keeps them from acquiring another quality OL I will go from not liking it to outright hating it.


If you watched the Super Bowl and your takeaway was that the Bengals needed a better DL in order to win, then you weren't watching the Super Bowl.

Not to mention the Bengals aren't signing Aaron Donald or Von Miller. We're talking about BJ Hill... who by the way, they are going to be yearly paying more than 10x the amount the Rams paid Von Miller.

They also did it with a 4th round pick first time starter on their DL. 

Wait, the SAME line that BJ Hill was a part of? So...why wouldn't you want him back then?

[jj22]

Good to have hill back. With Sample able to play 3t we don't have to reach in the draft for one.