Winker to Seattle

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-14-2022, 06:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sell the team, Bob.

Please

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

And to top it off, David Bell is still the manager.

This team is going to be hard to watch. My only pro for the DH is that it gives less decisions to Bell.

Hopefully Lodolo is ready.

Current starting pitchers
Luis Castillo
Tyler Mahle
Vlad Gutierez

Santillan?
Lodolo?
Hoffman?
Greene doesn't seem ready.

Unless they sign someone and don't move anyone else, this could be the lineup you see.

Akiyama/Schrock
Votto
India
Naquin/Friedl
Stephenson
Moustakis/Aquino
Farmer
Senzel/Schrock
Barerro

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-14-2022, 10:50 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: And to top it off, David Bell is still the manager.

This team is going to be hard to watch. My only pro for the DH is that it gives less decisions to Bell.

Hopefully Lodolo is ready.

Current starting pitchers
Luis Castillo
Tyler Mahle
Vlad Gutierez

Santillan?
Lodolo?
Hoffman?
Greene doesn't seem ready.

Unless they sign someone and don't move anyone else, this could be the lineup you see.

Akiyama/Schrock
Votto
India
Naquin/Friedl
Stephenson
Moustakis/Aquino
Farmer
Senzel/Schrock
Barerro

The Big Red Machine has been turned into the light pink blown motor.

[Murdock2420]

Ass cancer has now finally evolved into a fully human form. It has a name Bob Castellini


Sell the team Bob... sell it now

[Murdock2420]

(03-14-2022, 10:50 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: And to top it off, David Bell is still the manager.

This team is going to be hard to watch. My only pro for the DH is that it gives less decisions to Bell.

Hopefully Lodolo is ready.

Current starting pitchers
Luis Castillo
Tyler Mahle
Vlad Gutierez

Santillan?
Lodolo?
Hoffman?
Greene doesn't seem ready.

Unless they sign someone and don't move anyone else, this could be the lineup you see.

Akiyama/Schrock
Votto
India
Naquin/Friedl
Stephenson
Moustakis/Aquino
Farmer
Senzel/Schrock
Barerro

Castillo is still prime trade bait and there will be plenty of FA pitchers to round out the rotation and bullpen.

Such as gems like Jeff Hoffman, and Brad Bach, and Sean Doolittle...you know Reds' priced FAs.

[TecmoBengals]

Agreed, they'll dump Castillo and if Moose gets hot they'll also find a buyer for him.

[The D.O.Z.]

The Cincinnati Reds are the Double-A affiliate of The Cincinnati Reds.

Minor league baseball in a big league park!
Baseball! CATCH THE FEVER!

[TecmoBengals]

(03-15-2022, 10:35 AM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: The Cincinnati Reds are the Double-A affiliate of The Cincinnati Reds.

Minor league baseball in a big league park!
Baseball! CATCH THE FEVER!

It's so lame, the season is over before it began. Tune into a Reds game, watch Votto get pitched around! That's how this plays out.

[kevin]

I know fans are upset at Reds Owners now. I am not.

The lockout / strike produced a new MLB Collective Bargaining Agreement and many Rule Changes. It helps the Super Rich Big City Teams get Richer and it helps The Players get Richer. However is sticks it to small city owners in places like Cincinnati and Pittsburgh.

So more than ever before, Cincinnati is forced to go by the movie about Oakland Athletics, ' MONEY BALL '. At the beginning when he tells a room full of team staff, " Look, Giambi and Damon are gone. History. Stop trying to find players that cost the same price. If we we were going pay the same price, we would have kept Damon and Giambi. The Money just isn't there fella's. We have to start looking at the game different. We can't compete with teams like The Yankees on spending money. So we have to think outside the box. "

In Money Ball he brings in anybody cheap with a good OBP. Young, Old, Doesn't Matter. Hits or Walks, doesn't matter. A good OBP.

I don't think Reds haver to do it the same way. Nor do I think the Reds should stop bunting or stop stealing bases as in this movie. In fact, Ty Cobb as a manager would say to give him hitters that can bunt and steal and play the inside the park game, and he will beat the home run hitting Babe Ruth teams.

The Reds Owners say they had to dump payroll as far back as last year. I posted it. Fans got mad at me on here, in shooting the messenger. All I was saying is what Reds owners said. That they had gone way over on payroll. The 2020 short Covid Season and no Fans in the stands and no Reds Minor League Fans really hurt he Reds. A lot of lost TV Revenue off 2020 season also. So the Reds had to dump Bauer and Disco, and now Castellano, Miley, Gray, Burnhardt, Suarez, Winker. I don't think they wanted to dump Winker, but I think the only way to dump Suarez was to add in Winker.

So, like The Money Ball Movie, The Reds are tearing apart the team they built. I think the lost money Covid Season, The Lockout / Strike, the new MLB CBA was all too much for Cincinnati. It forced cutting payroll. Once Reds get fans in the stands and TV money coming in regular again, in Majors and Minors, they can rebuild again. 2020 covid no fans season killed the Reds, plus they lost a ton of TV revenue with such a short season.

When one door closes, another door opens. Right now Moose has 3rd Base with Suarez gone. Votto at 1st. India at 2nd. They really just need a good glove at Short with the DH now. Short can bat 9th. The OF just got thin, but now is the time to look at Naquin, Senzel and Aquino has a rocket of an arm in Right Field and can jack it out of Great American Small Park when he gets playing time. Stephenson is going to be a great hitting catcher. For a DH, I have no problem with Farmer. The Reds have some good young pitchers that were on Reds last year. Castillo and Mahle are the anchors, but there are others. Sims is in there. Didn't the Reds discover Lorenzen is better warming up as a starter than short warm up as reliever. So the door opens for many Reds to use this as an opportunity to show they belong in the Bigs. The Reds have needed to look at some of these players. I don't think the Reds have to add players yet.

However, the DH could provide the Reds getting a hitter on THE CHEAP in the future. Reds have got hitters in the past that other teams were still paying most of their salary, so Reds got players like Scooter Gennett and such ON THE CHEAP. I think the DH is great for real old dudes going down in salary. The DH is going to help drive in runs for The Reds. Who gets injured more, Naquin or Senzel. Who is the worst in the outfield. Maybe one of them can be the DH, and the Asian OF people want in can play CF.

The Reds will field a team, and it may not be all that bad. I am not mad at Reds Owners. I know they lost a ton of money on No Fan Covid 2020, and lost TV revenue Covid 2020. I knew Reds said they had to cut payroll a lot. I understand. The Reds Owner DID go out and spend money and put a team together that made a run at The World Series. I understand why the Reds have to cut payroll now. Fans that think Cincinnati is the same as New York do not understand baseball. In the NFL, Cincinnati gets TV Revenue Sharing, but in baseball Cincinnati doesn't get close to what the Yankees or Dodgers get in TV Money. There in lies the HUGE difference.

So I am not one bit upset. I understand. Go Reds. Some of these players now have an opportunity. If Naquin, Senzel, Aquino can hit the ball as in the past. The Moose has an opportunity to play 3rd again. Stephenson finally gets a chance to be every day Catcher. Wasn't India Rookie Of Year ? There is enough left to get behind and root for. I saw the Reds with goons like Wayne Krenchickey, and and some teams of just awful players many years. One year Reds biggest player was Kevin Mitchell. So I've seem worse Reds teams. One years the Reds brought in every Tommy John Pitcher on The Cheap, and that really didn't work. The 2022 Reds are not as low on talent as many Reds teams in the past. SO GO REDS.

[Nicomo Cosca]

The small market excuse is total crap. Under the new CBA every team receives $54 million from the tv deal right off the bat. The Reds current payroll is sitting at like $76 million. When the league is paying the majority of your players that’s pretty embarrassing…

Obviously they’ll add some guys, but I wouldn’t hold my breath on anything significant.

[plantmanky]

(03-14-2022, 06:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Gray
Winker
Suarez
Castellanos
Barnhart
Lorenzen
Miley

All gone.

No reason to go to games or try to watch on TV this year.

Another fun fact - Bob Castellini has the lowest net worth of all the MLB owners. Only $400 mill.

Bob only owns 15% of the team so that makes sense. 

[plantmanky]

(03-14-2022, 07:33 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: The Reds are not interested in contending this year. We will basically be a AAA club in the major leagues. Salary dumping for the future I guess. Wait when Votto's gone.

...Votto gone, Stephenson settled in a catcher, Greene and Lodolo, and mahle set in rotation (maybe castillo too).  India........make sense too me. 

[MileHighGrowler]

(03-15-2022, 02:26 PM)plantmanky Wrote: ...Votto gone, Stephenson settled in a catcher, Greene and Lodolo, and mahle set in rotation (maybe castillo too).  India........make sense too me. 

Isn't Votto's contract through 2023?  It's going to be a long 2 seasons to wait for that and then possibly another 2 to get into position.  In a sport with waning interest as it is, who wants to wait 4 years for relevance?  

[plantmanky]

(03-15-2022, 05:38 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Isn't Votto's contract through 2023?  It's going to be a long 2 seasons to wait for that and then possibly another 2 to get into position.  In a sport with waning interest as it is, who wants to wait 4 years for relevance?  

2024 with the option I beleive, but 2024 was what I was basing my post on.  I think it depends on how well Green and Lodolo adapt to pitching in the MLB.  The key to that will be having a strong bullpen that can bail them out, thats where the money will need spent at that time. 

[MileHighGrowler]

(03-16-2022, 02:20 PM)plantmanky Wrote: 2024 with the option I beleive, but 2024 was what I was basing my post on.  I think it depends on how well Green and Lodolo adapt to pitching in the MLB.  The key to that will be having a strong bullpen that can bail them out, thats where the money will need spent at that time. 

I get it.  I just think the Reds are missing an opportunity.  With apathy toward the sport trending the wrong direction for the league, I think making an attempt now was critical.  Coming off a strong Bengals season, the momentum was with the city to support baseball as well.  But between the dispute and this fire sale, I think it's all going to bite the team big time.  

I also don't really believe the "Cincinnati is a baseball town" narrative. It was.  Hugely so.  Growing up, everyone loved baseball.  We all played it and followed it, collected cards, watched games and listened on the radio every night.  But I don't think it is a baseball town any more.  Not to many under the age of 50 at least.  It's possible the Reds surprise people this year, and it's possible they'll get back to solid relevance in a couple of years and the city will be there ready to support them.  But I think the passion for baseball is fading, and it's expedited when ownership doesn't seem to really care. 

[plantmanky]

(03-16-2022, 02:59 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I get it.  I just think the Reds are missing an opportunity.  With apathy toward the sport trending the wrong direction for the league, I think making an attempt now was critical.  Coming off a strong Bengals season, the momentum was with the city to support baseball as well.  But between the dispute and this fire sale, I think it's all going to bite the team big time.  

I also don't really believe the "Cincinnati is a baseball town" narrative. It was.  Hugely so.  Growing up, everyone loved baseball.  We all played it and followed it, collected cards, watched games and listened on the radio every night.  But I don't think it is a baseball town any more.  Not to many under the age of 50 at least.  It's possible the Reds surprise people this year, and it's possible they'll get back to solid relevance in a couple of years and the city will be there ready to support them.  But I think the passion for baseball is fading, and it's expedited when ownership doesn't seem to really care. 

I don't know that they are missing, they are getting rid of guys, that couldn't win, couldn't preform (yes winker had a good year, but still barley played 100 games).  The Reds can no bring up some young guys, that fans can get behind, watch develop, and heck maybe even win a few.  

I also think you are right about not being a baseball town anymore, mostly because there are other entertainment things to be attracted too anymore.  The biggest miss I think some have too is that more and more fans just watch on TV/Streaming.  So while the stands for the game may be empty, the viewership may be greater.  Baseball is behind in capitalizing on that.  Support comes in multiple formats. 

[Goalpost]

(03-17-2022, 02:08 PM)plantmanky Wrote: I don't know that they are missing, they are getting rid of guys, that couldn't win, couldn't preform (yes winker had a good year, but still barley played 100 games).  

Basically true.  Reds finished 13-20 last year while they were in a pennant race.  That's a .393 winning percentage when the games really counted.  

[*psychdoctor*]

I love Stephenson and India but the Reds are dead to me at this point.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-14-2022, 10:50 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: And to top it off, David Bell is still the manager.

This team is going to be hard to watch. My only pro for the DH is that it gives less decisions to Bell.

He'll still find a way to pinch hit for his #3 or #4 hitter with a much inferior hitter (but who swings and misses from the other side of the plate) by the 5th inning. I'm sure it won't ever backfire later in the game.  

[TecmoBengals]

(03-18-2022, 12:30 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I love Stephenson and India but the Reds are dead to me at this point.

It's hard to not already be thinking two outcomes for India's career as a Red:

1) He'll continue to have success and then be traded away rather than paid.

or

2) He'll be the next Votto; meaning he's the player that gets a long term contract with big dollars but then never has any talent around him. Thus, he plays his career on losing teams.