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(03-20-2022, 01:03 PM)Science Friction Wrote: I think the Collins dude ends up a Bengal. He was here the better part of two days. Clearly, they were close and both sides like a lot of what they heard. Others aren't exactly beating down La'el's door to get to him. My best guess is that he will be in black and orange.
That's my guess and I hope it's more than just my hope. He is likely drumming up another offer for the Bengals increase the "structure" of the offer.
Side note, can you imagine if they miss out on him bringing in another tackle for a visit? Do we peddle Burrow out with the same fanfare?
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(03-20-2022, 01:23 PM)jj22 Wrote: Rather people are ready to realize it or not, we've lost more than we've gained. We've downgraded from CJ if only the locker room presence (and it's a tough sell to say we've upgraded), lost Spain, lost larry O, lost Reiff, haven't upgraded one of the worst pass defenses, in a conference that has upgraded it's pass catchers and qb's.... We've strengthened Center and RG and people will hang their hats on that to claim we haven't fallen behind, but other spots have taken hits.
The only concern I have is RT and depth at DT. If it doesn’t work out with Collins then they will have to figure out another way to solidify the RT spot. I think they will get some guys to help with the CB and WR areas where it gets thin after the starters.
Interior O line was the weakest group on the team last year and they have made big upgrades there so I don’t think they are worse off at this point. TE is still similar to what they had with CJ but not a major concern for a position where that guy is going to be the 4th or 5th option on almost every play.
I am concerned at how many good players have come to the AFC but by week 1 the Bengals will be just as talented as every other top team. The top 5 or so teams in the AFC will all have SB caliber rosters. Injuries and luck will play a big part in how teams finish next year.
The Bengals are fortunate in that they didn’t need to make any big splash FA signings/trades at the skill positions like the Browns, Raiders and Broncos did because they already have studs at those positions.
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(03-20-2022, 01:42 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: A player getting outplayed by 2 all pro talents means he’s worse than a mediocre CJ Uzomah?
Please.
You crack me up Frank.
You honestly think that NFL teams hand out contracts just based on looking at stat sheets?
There is a good reason that in a free market competition between teams with professional scouts Uzo got paid a lot more than Hurst.
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(03-20-2022, 01:44 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: tough sell tough sell tough sell
like a broken record
If you don't repeat your point, people will try to put words in your mouth and get upset and worked up over something you never said....
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
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(03-20-2022, 01:45 PM)jj22 Wrote: I never said he was worse... Don't put words in my mouth just to get yourself worked up. That's lame.
The question was is he an upgrade.
You never said he was worse? Ok
Well if he’s not an upgrade....
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(03-20-2022, 01:44 PM)Sled21 Wrote: No shit, but if guarantees are the sticking point and the Bengals won't budge (which evidently they won't) then there is no reason not to put some pressure to sign back on the player.
Issue with that is our courting of Collins is such a big public piece, you might have issue getting other RT options to come in right now knowing we are using THEM for leverage.
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(03-20-2022, 01:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You crack me up Frank.
You honestly think that NFL teams hand out contracts just based on looking at stat sheets?
There is a good reason that in a free market competition between teams with professional scouts Uzo got paid a lot more than Hurst.
Hurst is a better talent than Uzomah
Uzomah got overpayed by a franchise that always makes dumb decisions. Jets saw he was a locker room leader on a team that made it to the super bowl, and that was enough for them to give him a bunch of money
Hurst signing with cincy was an actual case of the so called “Burrow effect”
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Then it's a wash... that isn't worse.... It also doesn't make us better.
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(03-20-2022, 01:50 PM)jj22 Wrote: Then it's a wash... that isn't worse....
If you want to call it a wash, fine lol
But hurst is cheaper. So, yea, it’s an upgrade
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(03-20-2022, 01:49 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Hurst signing with cincy was an actual case of the so called “Burrow effect”
I didn't realize Hurst had all these options and took less money to play with Burrow for a chance at a Super Bowl ring...
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(03-20-2022, 01:45 PM)jj22 Wrote: The question was is he an upgrade.
No. The question is if the "team" gets upgraded.
A small drop in talent at a position like TE will not matter if we used the extra $4 million to upgrade another more important position.
Last year we let a $13.5 million CB (Jackson) walk and replaced him with a $7.3 million CB (Awuzie) and $6 million CB (Hilton).
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(03-20-2022, 01:50 PM)jj22 Wrote: Then it's a wash... that isn't worse.... It also doesn't make us better.
Yes it does make us better because we have an extra $4 million to upgrade th team in other ways.
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(03-20-2022, 01:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it does make us better because we have an extra $4 million to upgrade th team in other ways.
Idk tough sell tough sell tough sell
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(03-20-2022, 01:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it does make us better because we have an extra $4 million to upgrade th team in other ways.
But we haven't yet, which makes my point accurate. When we do then we can reevaluate if we've kept up with the AFC.
I get your hope, but nothing you've said has happened so you are claiming I am wrong based off a bunch of if's... Obviously ifs change things, but you can't claim we haven't fallen behind based off of a bunch of "ifs".
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(03-20-2022, 01:56 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Idk tough sell tough sell tough sell
"If's" always are...
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Can anyone tell me if Collins is still around, being over here in Scotland I'm only getting the news from boards like this, twitter and FB and I read that it was reported a hour ago on CBT he's still in Cincinnati.
Can anyone confirm this?
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Let's get the current OL lineup straight first:
LT: Jonah
LG: Carman (and likely Spain)
C: Karras
RG: Cappa
RT: (Open)
I am unhappy they failed to land Collins. But even RIGHT NOW the OL is hugely upgraded. Remember that the vast majority of the line issues last season came from the right side. And I have to think they are not going to ride with Isaiah Prince next season - we missed on Collins but they will get an improvement (maybe Daryl Williams?). And as to LG they are almost certainly going to resign Spain who contrary to some opinions played well for us at LG - the issue in the last two playoff games was more about him having to play injured because as it turned out Carman was also nursing an injury.
I still think they need to rethink parts of their Free Agency approach in particular concerning ESTABLISHED tier 1 players - that is where this kind of result seems to bite the most.
Finally, yes asking for fully guaranteed contracts hits small market teams hard and there needs to be some kind of alternative developed. Maybe a financial product the team can buy where the product vendor pays the contract then the team pays a fee plus the payment to the company writing the product? Just thinking out loud there.
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(03-20-2022, 01:46 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: The only concern I have is RT and depth at DT. If it doesn’t work out with Collins then they will have to figure out another way to solidify the RT spot. I think they will get some guys to help with the CB and WR areas where it gets thin after the starters.
Interior O line was the weakest group on the team last year and they have made big upgrades there so I don’t think they are worse off at this point. TE is still similar to what they had with CJ but not a major concern for a position where that guy is going to be the 4th or 5th option on almost every play.
I am concerned at how many good players have come to the AFC but by week 1 the Bengals will be just as talented as every other top team. The top 5 or so teams in the AFC will all have SB caliber rosters. Injuries and luck will play a big part in how teams finish next year.
The Bengals are fortunate in that they didn’t need to make any big splash FA signings/trades at the skill positions like the Browns, Raiders and Broncos did because they already have studs at those positions.
True.
AND THAT'S THE BOTTOMLINE ... BECAUSE GRISWOLD SAID SO!!!
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(03-20-2022, 02:23 PM)Joelist Wrote: Let's get the current OL lineup straight first:
LT: Jonah
LG: Carman (and likely Spain)
C: Karras
RG: Cappa
RT: (Open)
I am unhappy they failed to land Collins. But even RIGHT NOW the OL is hugely upgraded. Remember that the vast majority of the line issues last season came from the right side. And I have to think they are not going to ride with Isaiah Prince next season - we missed on Collins but they will get an improvement (maybe Daryl Williams?). And as to LG they are almost certainly going to resign Spain who contrary to some opinions played well for us at LG - the issue in the last two playoff games was more about him having to play injured because as it turned out Carman was also nursing an injury.
I still think they need to rethink parts of their Free Agency approach in particular concerning ESTABLISHED tier 1 players - that is where this kind of result seems to bite the most.
Finally, yes asking for fully guaranteed contracts hits small market teams hard and there needs to be some kind of alternative developed. Maybe a financial product the team can but where it pays the contract then the team pays a fee plus the payment to the company writing the product? Just thinking out loud there.
Collins will be a Bengal, in my opinion.
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(03-20-2022, 02:16 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: Can anyone tell me if Collins is still around, being over here in Scotland I'm only getting the news from boards like this, twitter and FB and I read that it was reported a hour ago on CBT he's still in Cincinnati.
Can anyone confirm this?
No sir, Collins left Cincinnati. Cinci is still in play but things are done for now.
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