Watson Joins Browns

[WiregrassBenGal]

To me, DeShaun Watson doesn't seem that good. Maybe Baker Mayfield just had a bad year. If Baker goes on to Indianapolis or something and goes deep into the playoffs, while the Browns are sub-500 again because of Watson's suspensions or general ineptitude, then the millions of Browns fans are gonna barf at the same time.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-25-2022, 09:11 PM)WiregrassBenGal Wrote: To me, DeShaun Watson doesn't seem that good. Maybe Baker Mayfield just had a bad year. If Baker goes on to Indianapolis or something and goes deep into the playoffs, while the Browns are sub-500 again because of Watson's suspensions or general ineptitude, then the millions of Browns fans are gonna barf at the same time.

As a football player? Because that is just wrong. Watson's last season was statistically better than Burrow's and nobody is thinking Burrow wasn't that good last year. The only difference is the Texans had the 30th overall/27th scoring defense and the 31st rushing offense so they couldn't win games.

3 of Watson's 4 years he's had a QB Rating of >103. Plus he is a primary passer has the ability to take advantage of openings if he needs and runs for 400-500 yards. This will be his 6th year in the NFL and he's just 1 year older than Burrow heading into his 3rd.

If that's not that good, then there's no good QBs in the league.

- - - - - -

Indy didn't want Baker. They would rather pay more money to get a 37-year-old Matt Ryan. 

Also Baker just isn't that good. 

Baker QB Rating+
2018: 105 (5% above average)
2019: 82 (18% below average)
2020: 106 (6% above average)
2021: 88 (12% below average)

Watson..
2017: 118
2018: 117
2019: 108
2020: 127

(For comparison, Dalton was 94, 103, 103, 93 his first four years as a 2nd round pick, not a 1st overall pick like Baker... and yet Baker is still worse than Dalton.)

Obviously QB Rating isn't the end-all stat, but it gives a pretty decent picture and Watson at his worst is still better than Baker at his best.

I just don't think that Baker is accurate enough to be a good starter in the NFL. Career 61.6% which isn't good in today's NFL. His Cmp%+ are 101, 79, 92, 79... almost dead on average followed by well below average. 

The Browns had 2 WRs and both would rather be gone than play with Baker anymore.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-25-2022, 04:30 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Ohhhhh. Yeahhhh....     Snap into a slim jim

Glad someone caught the intentionally botched Randy reference.

[HarleyDog]

(03-25-2022, 09:11 PM)WiregrassBenGal Wrote: To me, DeShaun Watson doesn't seem that good. Maybe Baker Mayfield just had a bad year. If Baker goes on to Indianapolis or something and goes deep into the playoffs, while the Browns are sub-500 again because of Watson's suspensions or general ineptitude, then the millions of Browns fans are gonna barf at the same time.

Baker played injured most of the year. He fought through it and continued to play. Browns organization is a shithole. I dislike Baker, but I have to say this sends a bad message to other players on the team. Dude was playing to win and was the QB and they treated him like dirty dishwater. For them to get Watson is Karma.

[C0de_M0nkey]

A suspension is doubtful for a few reasons. Deshaun Watson has 22 civil cases against him, but those will be uphill battles for the plaintiffs since no criminal charges were filed. The fact that he’s fighting the cases to clear his name shows that he believes in his own innocence. Since he can convince the Browns to give him $230m, he can probably convince the NFL to not suspend him. After all they didn’t suspend Big Ben, who didn’t even fight to clear his name in civil court like Deshaun Watson says he will

[Stewy]

(03-25-2022, 11:20 PM)C0de_M0nkey Wrote: A suspension is doubtful for a few reasons. Deshaun Watson has 22 civil cases against him, but those will be uphill battles for the plaintiffs since no criminal charges were filed. The fact that he’s fighting the cases to clear his name shows that he believes in his own innocence. Since he can convince the Browns to give him $230m, he can probably convince the NFL to not suspend him. After all they didn’t suspend Big Ben, who didn’t even fight to clear his name in civil court like Deshaun Watson says he will

Dude you are seriously mis-remembering.

Ben Roth.  - One woman accuses him, pays off loads of money, accusations but NO CHARGES BROUGHT, no guilt admitted or proven - 6 game suspension
Ezekiel Elliot - One woman accuses him of assault, NO CHARGES BROUGHT, no guilt admitted or proven - 6 Game Suspension - reduced to 4 on appeal

Deshaun Watson - 22 separate women in several different states over a 3 year period files a class action suit, at least 10 press charges, Depositions of details being leaked, NFL has and continues to have a HUGE black eye, NFL has been conducting it's own inventigation since the get go for over a year now - It doesn't matter how much he proclaims his innocence or doesn't pay them off, he is going to get suspended and suspended for a LONG time.  6 games for one offense for Ben - How many do you think DW is going to get for 22?

Goodell has absolute power to punish and it can be for no more than "Embarrassing the NFL".  He can place players on the exempt list at a whim and for very little reason.  On top of this, The Browns and Watson have tried to get around NFL punishment by reducing his 2022 salary to 1 mil dollars, so he won't lose money from a suspension.  I can guarantee you this pisses Goodell the hell off.  Lastly, the other owners are pissed at Watsons contract and the precedent it sets.  It is the first full guaranteed contract of it's kind and represents TWICE as much guaranteed money than the next largest contract ever given.  It's a baseball contract, and the other NFL owners don't want that.

The hammer is coming and it's coming down hard:  To teach Watson a lesson, to punish him, to punish the Browns and Watson for trying to circumvent punishment and punishment to the Browns for proposing a contract with so much guaranteed money.

To be placed on the exempt list an action requires fitting into just ONE of these categories, not all three.

Quote:1) a player must be charged with a felony offense or a crime of violence, 2) an NFL investigation must lead Goodell “to believe that a player may have violated” the league’s personal conduct policy, and 3) Goodell has the flexibility to temporarily place a player on the exempt list when “a crime of violence is alleged but further investigation is required.”

Note how entirely open ended number 3 is.

My prediction:  
(1) - Close to the start of training camp or the start of the season, Watson will be put on the Exempt List "Until the league finishes it's investigation", their investigation will strangely take the entire 2022 season, thus negating the Brown and Watson tactics of reducing the monetary loss of any suspension.
(2) - Some time after the 2022 season ends, it will announced that the leagues investigation is complete and it's finds disturbing and egregious with Watson being removed from the exempt list and suspended for the entirety of the 2023 season.  This will cost Watson 55 million dollars, that the Browns have to pay that still eats up cap space.

Remember this isn't just about whether anyone believe DW or not.  One has to look at how the league has reacted before, and knowing how the league reacts to being embarrassed (not good) on top of the Browns owner and organization embarrassing the other owners and setting a precedent they do not want with DW's salary.

The hammer is coming, and the punishment will be unprecedented.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-18-2022, 06:39 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't see how the Steelers are going to be relevant this year but they are like a cockroach that is hard to step on.  

Stooler relevance went out the door when they started cracking down on spearing players. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-26-2022, 01:07 PM)Stewy Wrote: Dude you are seriously mis-remembering.

Ben Roth.  - One woman accuses him, pays off loads of money, accusations but NO CHARGES BROUGHT, no guilt admitted or proven - 6 game suspension
Ezekiel Elliot - One woman accuses him of assault, NO CHARGES BROUGHT, no guilt admitted or proven - 6 Game Suspension - reduced to 4 on appeal

Deshaun Watson - 22 separate women in several different states over a 3 year period files a class action suit, at least 10 press charges, Depositions of details being leaked, NFL has and continues to have a HUGE black eye, NFL has been conducting it's own inventigation since the get go for over a year now - It doesn't matter how much he proclaims his innocence or doesn't pay them off, he is going to get suspended and suspended for a LONG time.  6 games for one offense for Ben - How many do you think DW is going to get for 22?

Goodell has absolute power to punish and it can be for no more than "Embarrassing the NFL".  He can place players on the exempt list at a whim and for very little reason.  On top of this, The Browns and Watson have tried to get around NFL punishment by reducing his 2022 salary to 1 mil dollars, so he won't lose money from a suspension.  I can guarantee you this pisses Goodell the hell off.  Lastly, the other owners are pissed at Watsons contract and the precedent it sets.  It is the first full guaranteed contract of it's kind and represents TWICE as much guaranteed money than the next largest contract ever given.  It's a baseball contract, and the other NFL owners don't want that.

The hammer is coming and it's coming down hard:  To teach Watson a lesson, to punish him, to punish the Browns and Watson for trying to circumvent punishment and punishment to the Browns for proposing a contract with so much guaranteed money.

To be placed on the exempt list an action requires fitting into just ONE of these categories, not all three.
Note how entirely open ended number 3 is.

My prediction:  
(1) - Close to the start of training camp or the start of the season, Watson will be put on the Exempt List "Until the league finishes it's investigation", their investigation will strangely take the entire 2022 season, thus negating the Brown and Watson tactics of reducing the monetary loss of any suspension.
(2) - Some time after the 2022 season ends, it will announced that the leagues investigation is complete and it's finds disturbing and egregious with Watson being removed from the exempt list and suspended for the entirety of the 2023 season.  This will cost Watson 55 million dollars, that the Browns have to pay that still eats up cap space.

Remember this isn't just about whether anyone believe DW or not.  One has to look at how the league has reacted before, and knowing how the league reacts to being embarrassed (not good) on top of the Browns owner and organization embarrassing the other owners and setting a precedent they do not want with DW's salary.

The hammer is coming, and the punishment will be unprecedented.

Pardon my ignorance, but where does that 55 million actually go?

I agree with you, they're not going to let him off Scot free, and I can see Goodell being quite vindictive about all of this. I can't say that I blame him in this instance.

[XenoMorph]

(03-26-2022, 01:07 PM)Stewy Wrote: The hammer is coming, and the punishment will be unprecedented.

They will likely Consider 2021 as time served already against any punishment coming.

[Stewy]

(03-31-2022, 01:12 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: They will likely Consider 2021 as time served already against any punishment coming.

No they won't.  He didn't play by choice.  He refused to step on the field and got paid anyway.  That wasn't punishment.

Wow you people who think there will be no punishment really are clueless to the situation and how the NFL has handled similar issues in the past.  

Mark it down.  The hammer is coming.

[Stewy]

(03-31-2022, 01:11 PM)Wyche Wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but where does that 55 million actually go?

I agree with you, they're not going to let him off Scot free, and I can see Goodell being quite vindictive about all of this. I can't say that I blame him in this instance.

From what I was reading.

FINES:  Go to an NFL former player wellness charity.  It is a charity agreed upon by the league and the NFLPA

SUSPENSIONS
The Player:  Loses 1/17th salary per game suspended + will likely not qualify for any performance bonus' depending upon the length of the suspensions.
The Team:  Doesn't have the pay the salary, but still counts against the cap, so they can't go out and spend the money on a different player.  So in Deshaun's case they'll save 3.24 mil per game he's suspended in 2023, but they can't spend it on other players.
Also, while the player does not count against the 53 man roster while suspended, the team MUST make room for them the day the suspension ends.

It should be noted, that we haven't spoken of fines Deshaun could receive on top of his suspension, but player fines usually are more jokes in terms of amounts vs. costly.  It's the suspension that could cost the most money depending on when it gets enforced.

[XenoMorph]

(03-31-2022, 07:11 PM)Stewy Wrote: No they won't.  He didn't play by choice.  He refused to step on the field and got paid anyway.  That wasn't punishment.

Wow you people who think there will be no punishment really are clueless to the situation and how the NFL has handled similar issues in the past.  

Mark it down.  The hammer is coming.

I thought he was exempted last year so that was all voluntentary sitout?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-31-2022, 07:11 PM)Stewy Wrote: No they won't.  He didn't play by choice.  He refused to step on the field and got paid anyway.  That wasn't punishment.

Wow you people who think there will be no punishment really are clueless to the situation and how the NFL has handled similar issues in the past.  

Mark it down.  The hammer is coming.

The Texans actually healthy scratched him the whole season. I am pretty sure it was their choice, not his, hence the still getting paid. If he "refused to step on the field" then they wouldn't have paid him and could have fined him.

[Stewy]

(04-01-2022, 07:45 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: I thought he was exempted last year so that was all voluntentary sitout?

Correct.  He and the team mutually agreed he wouldnt play for the Texans again. It was not league punishment.

[Stewy]

(04-01-2022, 08:04 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Texans actually healthy scratched him the whole season. I am pretty sure it was their choice, not his, hence the still getting paid. If he "refused to step on the field" then they wouldn't have paid him and could have fined him.

Incorrect.  He refused to play for the Texans, and they accommodated him when he asked for a trade.  He caused such a caustic situation, that the Texans didn't want him on the field representing the team.  Thus it was mutual, though not amicable.

[*psychdoctor*]

I just wanted to chime in on my perspective of Watson's alleged sexual assaults. I haven't read all of the individual cases. Just a couple.

It is my opinion that deshaun Watson has a paraphilia disorder or is a sexual deviant. Sexual deviance is not necessarily unlawful if it is between two individual adults with consent.

But in Watson's case he gets thrills when an unsuspected partner is touching or rubbing his genitals; turning him on. So I think his presentation best fits exposure disorder or indecent exposure would be the legal statute I believe in Ohio. He may also have frotteurism disorder. Thus far I have not read any evidence that he groped or coerced a woman into have sexual intercourse or perform sexual deeds. At least not regards to the 22 women that are involved and depending civil case.

A lot of these complaints rarely go forward, especially against a person in power because of the backlash. Some of the women in a case are a
Alleging that they are receiving death threats from Cleveland Brown fans and others that support deshaun Watson which is sickening really. Sexual related offense even minor ones rarely go before court because the accuser is embarrassed and doesn't want the details to come out in public. It is part of the power that sexual offenders have over women.

It's basically he said she said evidence and this is flimsy and very difficult for a grand jury to indict using the standard beyond a reasonable doubt. Preponderance of evidence is a different thing and this is why civil case is tend to be more successful than criminal cases as it should.

If you're wondering why an individual would become sexually aroused during a massage when he has a beautiful wife, it is because two things one the masseuse is unsuspecting. This arousal activity which turns him on and two sexual deviance turns him on more so than sex with his wife. Sexual deviance is sometimes a fetish and involves objects that's necessary to ejaculate and this may be his thing with the blankets and towels.

[XenoMorph]

(04-01-2022, 12:07 PM)Stewy Wrote: Correct.  He and the team mutually agreed he wouldnt play for the Texans again.  It was not league punishment.

Goodell has got to be sweating this one....  

[grampahol]

(04-01-2022, 01:06 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I just wanted to chime in on my perspective of Watson's alleged sexual assaults.  I haven't read all of the individual cases. Just a couple.

 It is my opinion that deshaun Watson has a paraphilia disorder or is a sexual deviant. Sexual deviance is not necessarily unlawful if it is between two individual adults with consent.  

 But in Watson's case he gets thrills when an unsuspected partner is touching or rubbing his genitals; turning him on.  So I think his presentation best fits exposure disorder or indecent exposure would be the legal statute I believe in Ohio.  He may also have frotteurism disorder.  Thus far I have not read any evidence that he groped or coerced a woman into have sexual intercourse or perform sexual deeds. At least not regards to the 22 women that are involved and depending civil case.

A lot of these complaints rarely go forward, especially against a person in power because of the backlash. Some of the women in a case are a
Alleging that they are receiving death threats from Cleveland Brown fans and others that support deshaun Watson which is sickening really. Sexual related offense even minor ones rarely go before court because the accuser is embarrassed and doesn't want the details to come out in public. It is part of the power that sexual offenders have over women.

It's basically he said she said evidence and this is flimsy and very difficult for a grand jury to indict using the standard beyond a reasonable doubt. Preponderance of evidence is a different thing and this is why civil case is tend to be more successful than criminal cases as it should.

If you're wondering why an individual would become sexually aroused during a massage when he has a beautiful wife, it is because two things one the masseuse is unsuspecting. This arousal activity which turns him on and two sexual deviance turns him on more so than sex with his wife. Sexual deviance is sometimes a fetish and involves objects that's necessary to ejaculate and this may be his thing with the blankets and towels.

Wow..You seem to know a lot more than I ever even wanted to know about sexual deviance and the law so I'll assume you either studied this stuff or perhaps have a case of deviance best left unsaid.. LOL
Anyways.. Most sexual related offenses go unreported simply because as my wife, the legal eagle of the family here knows that in the case of rape (especially) when reported and sometimes prosecuted there is more than just one rape. First there's the case of rape, the physical rape and then there's the rape that occurs by the legal system. Very few women (or men for that matter) want to go through such an ordeal since their entire lives get dragged through every bit of mud they've ever thought of and a lot they've never thought of.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-01-2022, 09:08 PM)grampahol Wrote: Wow..You seem to know a lot more than I ever even wanted to know about sexual deviance and the law so I'll assume you either studied this stuff or perhaps have a case of deviance best left unsaid.. LOL
Anyways.. Most sexual related offenses go unreported simply because as my wife, the legal eagle of the family here knows that in the case of rape (especially) when reported and sometimes prosecuted there is more than just one rape. First there's the case of rape, the physical rape and then there's the rape that occurs by the legal system. Very few women (or men for that matter) want to go through such an ordeal since their entire lives get dragged through every bit of mud they've ever thought of and a lot they've never thought of.

What gave it away, his name?

[JPPT1974]

He will be on such a short and tight leash knowing second chances are very rare. If he does that again, heard Browns would cut him on the spot!