Collins' visit is over

[fredtoast]

(03-20-2022, 01:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A Public Service Announcement from bfine:

CATASTROPHIZING


Ways to combat the cognitive distortion:


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/catastrophizing

REP.

[StoneTheCrow]

(03-20-2022, 01:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think you lost track of the conversation.  My post that you just quoted was no a reply to your post.

Here is where you said "if"



And here is my reply to that post




My reply was not about the "if" it was about the "continue" part of your comment.

How’d that all work out in terms of protection? And IFFFFF the dude gets rag dolled an avoidable 70 times a year for the next couple years is it not within the realm of possibility he MIGHT say **** this?

[Ell Prez]

(03-20-2022, 11:30 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Well you were obviously wrong and that comes from Willie Anderson. Willie Anderson states the Bengals are very much in play for Collins and that him leaving was not at all about the money of the offer. Willie said there were some hold ups on contract structure and as well that this is Collins' first go round in FA so there is nothing at all wrong with testing the market.

Are you talking about the Ogenjobi who failed his physical with Chicago while we added BJ Hill who was pivotal down the stretch when Larry was injured. As well, news flash...RT was not the weak link on this line even after Reiff went down with injury. The interior of the line was the issue and it has been dramatically improved.

I would say what you seem to find "obvious" is anything but.

No man, when I said it was about money…it could be APY or it could be the guaranteed money ie structure of the contract. So I was actually spot on.

I’m not talking about ogejobi at all. I’m talking about Collins, like we didn’t not sign him Bc he failed a physical.

RT was a huge issue. Why not sign a top 5 talent who obviously wanted to come here, if the money was right. It wasn’t right.

[phil413]

(03-20-2022, 01:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Remember that you are talking about the QB who wanted us to take a WR instead of a O-liineman with our first pick last year.

Burrow realizes that last year we signed one of the highest paid RTs in the league in free agency and used two draft picks in the first 4 round on O-line.

Burrow also realizes that we had to free agent upgrades to the o-line already in place before free agency started this year.

And most important Burrow does not have the crybaby victim mentality of many Bengal fans who have to spin everything negative after going to the Super Bowl.

I get your intention but using high resources doesn't mean you are delivering.  Cincy did a great job in FA and went to the super bowl, that fact doesn't negate the fact that they've been terrible about getting resources to translate to a good line.

You're pitching the idea that Burrow is "realizing" that we are using resources but what does it matter if the product isn't better?  I don't know why we have to either be a homer or a crybaby victim. Why can't we observe that this big money FA you reference (Reiff) is someone everyone wants to upgrade over a year later regardless of why.  

We also realize that they're likely to let those 2 picks that didn't produce (yet) be counted on for a starting LG job.  I don't like it. Heck, I wrote a post about the reality of it in the compromised offensive line post, it's what they do.  If we end up with another aging RT stopgap and our youth doesn't improve, are we to call Burrow a crybaby victim if he chooses to call out the FO?  There's a difference between being negative and being real.  I want these guys to succeed, but even I realize that Cappa was a huge upgrade but they're currently one injury away from having the same line except the marginal upgrade at center. They have resources to use but for some reason they have been bad, not just misfortunate at building a line.  

[Gdale_Bengal]

If he goes for more money then whatever. I heard Miami was interested. Lol

[phil413]

Also Karras is an improvement over Hopkins, I could have phrased that better. He's consistent, healthy and versatile.

[fredtoast]

(03-20-2022, 01:36 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: How’d that all work out in terms of protection? 

Our protection in 2021 was better than 2020.

In 2020 we did not even attempt to throw the ball down the field because we did not have time.  All we could do was dink and dunk.

Burrow still got sacked a lot in 2021 but he also had time to throw a lot of deep passes.  When Burrow got sacked 8 times in the first two games he had over 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball every time.  That was big improvement over 2020.  Burrow will not cry about sacks as long as he is taking a lot of sacks because he is holding onto the ball too long.

Not saying we don't have to continue do a lot of work on the O-line this year, but so far we have made some big moves and we are not finished yet.

[jj22]

Panthers don't seem interested..

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/20/panthers-are-pursuing-free-agent-tackle-duane-brown/

They may just need a LT though.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-20-2022, 01:37 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: No man, when I said it was about money…it could be APY or it could be the guaranteed money ie  structure of the contract. So I was actually spot on.

I’m not talking about ogejobi at all. I’m talking about Collins, like we didn’t not sign him Bc he failed a physical.

RT was a huge issue. Why not sign a top 5 talent who obviously wanted to come here, if the money was right. It wasn’t right.

This is Collins first time testing the market. 
Remember he went undrafted and threatened to sit out and re-enter if anyone drafted him late. 
So he's looking for a payday. Also I'm wondering about the hip, is it degenerative? if so, long term contract/high guarantees wouldn't be a good move. Just let those in the know handle it. They know what they need to do. So let them.

[StoneTheCrow]

(03-20-2022, 02:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Our protection in 2021 was better than 2020.

In 2020 we did not even attempt to throw the ball down the field because we did not have time.  All we could do was dink and dunk.

Burrow still got sacked a lot in 2021 but he also had time to throw a lot of deep passes.  When Burrow got sacked 8 times in the first two games he had over 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball every time.  That was big improvement over 2020.  Burrow will not cry about sacks as long as he is taking a lot of sacks because he is holding onto the ball too long.

Not saying we don't have to continue do a lot of work on the O-line this year, but so far we have made some big moves and we are not finished yet.

I’m actually in agreement with you about the mentality of Burrow, and I think the Bengals will do what’s necessary to protect the franchise. Just noting a scenario that could be plausible if they do not.

[Ell Prez]

(03-20-2022, 02:16 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: This is Collins first time testing the market. 
Remember he went undrafted and threatened to sit out and re-enter if anyone drafted him late. 
So he's looking for a payday. Also I'm wondering about the hip, is it degenerative? if so, long term contract/high guarantees wouldn't be a good move. Just let those in the know handle it. They know what they need to do. So let them.

So why are they still interested in him, but didn’t sign him?

[*bfine32*]

I hope we gave LC a deadline when he left. "We'll give you until Tuesday; if you don't accept we're moving on". We've obviously offered him all we're willing to and it's apparent the Bengals are interested in upgrading RT,

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-20-2022, 01:43 PM)phil413 Wrote: I get your intention but using high resources doesn't mean you are delivering.  Cincy did a great job in FA and went to the super bowl, that fact doesn't negate the fact that they've been terrible about getting resources to translate to a good line.

You're pitching the idea that Burrow is "realizing" that we are using resources but what does it matter if the product isn't better?  I don't know why we have to either be a homer or a crybaby victim. Why can't we observe that this big money FA you reference (Reiff) is someone everyone wants to upgrade over a year later regardless of why.  

We also realize that they're likely to let those 2 picks that didn't produce (yet) be counted on for a starting LG job.  I don't like it. Heck, I wrote a post about the reality of it in the compromised offensive line post, it's what they do.  If we end up with another aging RT stopgap and our youth doesn't improve, are we to call Burrow a crybaby victim if he chooses to call out the FO?  There's a difference between being negative and being real.  I want these guys to succeed, but even I realize that Cappa was a huge upgrade but they're currently one injury away from having the same line except the marginal upgrade at center. They have resources to use but for some reason they have been bad, not just misfortunate at building a line.  

As a fan, it's been frustrating watching the front office struggle on improving the offense line over the past few years.  It's not like they haven't tried. 

That's part of the frustration, but I also think the distrust the fans have with the front office was compounded by a statement made by I believe Troy Blackburn when they signed Bobby Hart.

The front office made a public statement earlier in the off-season that they were going to give Burrow help up front as I paraphrase. Normally they would not make a such a statement and do a hopspin piece. 


I think Collins is still in play but I also don't think the right tackle was the problem last year. It was interior.  Hopefully the player they draft in the upcoming draft can compete well against Carman who may also have improved.

[thompson19osu]

(03-20-2022, 02:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hope we gave LC a deadline when he left. "We'll give you until Tuesday; if you don't accept we're moving on". We've obviously offered him all we're willing to and it's apparent the Bengals are interested in upgrading RT,

I don’t understand why we don’t bring in more guys. By bringing in just Collins he has all the leverage because we appear desperate. Bring in other guys to at least give the appearance we also have other options.

[KillerGoose]

(03-20-2022, 02:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2020 we did not even attempt to throw the ball down the field because we did not have time.  All we could do was dink and dunk.

Burrow still got sacked a lot in 2021 but he also had time to throw a lot of deep passes.  

Just provided some data for context here so everyone can visualize what you're talking about. Below is Burrow's air yards per attempt broken out by season. 

2020- 8.64
2021 - 7.74

I have also broken out Burrow's attempts by air yards to get a feel for the number of attempts that traveled past certain distances. For 2020, 19% of Burrow's attempts traveled 15 yards or more compared to 16% in 2021. Here are a few more categories below...

Greater than 20 - 10% for each season, 2020 & 2021.
Greater than 25 - 6% for 2020 and 8% for 2021.
Greater than 30 - 3% for 2020 and 5% for 2021. 

Some noticeable differences between the seasons the deeper down the field you go. The protection was able to hold up a little better for deep throws down the field but Burrow saw on overall reduction in throw depth, particularly in the intermediate game. 

[BuildTheWall]

If we can’t get Collins, it’s not the end of the world. RG was by far the worst spot, and we got a nice upgrade. Karras is a great center as well. If Reiff is healthy I don’t mind signing him back for one more year and grooming a day 2 pick.

I would still like another cornerback as well if we can get one.

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-20-2022, 02:30 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: I don’t understand why we don’t bring in more guys. By bringing in just Collins he has all the leverage because we appear desperate. Bring in other guys to at least give the appearance we also have other options.

If the front office brought in other guys it would also indicate the message that Collins is not special to them and I think it shows that they are genuinely interested in him as a person and a player that it's not business as usual.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-20-2022, 02:21 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: So why are they still interested in him, but didn’t sign him?

because both sides think they have each other by the balls.

[thompson19osu]

(03-20-2022, 02:34 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If the front office brought in other guys it would also indicate the message that Collins is not special to them and I think it shows that they are genuinely interested in him as a person and a player that it's not business as usual.

Fair point but on the flip side it is allowing him to just leavus us out to dry by getting in a bidding war with Miami.

[Savagehenry54]

(03-20-2022, 02:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Our protection in 2021 was better than 2020.

In 2020 we did not even attempt to throw the ball down the field because we did not have time.  All we could do was dink and dunk.

Burrow still got sacked a lot in 2021 but he also had time to throw a lot of deep passes.  When Burrow got sacked 8 times in the first two games he had over 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball every time.  That was big improvement over 2020.  Burrow will not cry about sacks as long as he is taking a lot of sacks because he is holding onto the ball too long.

Not saying we don't have to continue do a lot of work on the O-line this year, but so far we have made some big moves and we are not finished yet.

To be fair, Joe's next level pocket presence and manipulation played a huge role in the downfield game they produced.  The line was better, but still shoddy at this level.

The most telling thing being we all can see big as day that Burrow ain't some swashbuckling take the sack type like a McNair or FatBen.

He's a surgeon, he ain't taking sacks like that unless his line is shitty.  Behind a good line he will very rarely get sacked at all imo.