Collins' visit is over

[leonardfan40]

(03-20-2022, 02:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hope we gave LC a deadline when he left. "We'll give you until Tuesday; if you don't accept we're moving on". We've obviously offered him all we're willing to and it's apparent the Bengals are interested in upgrading RT,

The second he left we should have “moved on”. That’s not to say we should pull the offer like some crybabies suggested last night, but that we should proceed by making offers/vists/etc to whoever is the teams next best option.

FA is too much of a whirlwind to sit around and hope he decides to sign with us. If we agree to a deal with the next best option before he makes up his mind then so be it. We can’t afford to wait on him and in the mean time miss out on our next two best options and have nothing but scrubs left afterwards to fill a starting spot.

When we are ready to sign option B we can call him and give him one last chance but anything more than that is irresponsible. I hope they are lining up visits for RT’s or extending offers as we speak.

[KillerGoose]

(03-20-2022, 02:45 PM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: To be fair, Joe's next level pocket presence and manipulation played a huge role in the downfield game they produced.  The line was better, but still shoddy at this level.

The most telling thing being we all can see big as day that Burrow ain't some swashbuckling take the sack type like a McNair or FatBen.

He's a surgeon, he ain't taking sacks like that unless his line is shitty.  Behind a good line he will very rarely get sacked at all imo.

It's quite the opposite IMO. Joe's biggest flaw is that he plays hero ball and hangs onto the ball. Joe was responsible for quite a bit of those sacks. There are numerous examples of Burrow either not finishing his reads and just turtling or running around trying to make something happen and then getting sacked. It's something he will have to learn through. He doesn't have next level pocket presence - yet. If you want to watch that, watch Brady. 

[THE PISTONS]

(03-20-2022, 02:48 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It's quite the opposite IMO. Joe's biggest flaw is that he plays hero ball and hangs onto the ball. Joe was responsible for quite a bit of those sacks. There are numerous examples of Burrow either not finishing his reads and just turtling or running around trying to make something happen and then getting sacked. It's something he will have to learn through. He doesn't have next level pocket presence - yet. If you want to watch that, watch Brady. 

I agree with this during the regular season. People act like Burrow is amazing at everything, but there are some areas he could improve.

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-20-2022, 02:43 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: Fair point but on the flip side it is allowing him to just leavus us out to dry by getting in a bidding war with Miami.

Sometimes deals can get done in 2 minutes. Sometimes it's a process, but until Collins signs with somebody else, they're still a chance he will be come a Bengal.

I think his agent is doing right by him and letting him explore other options before locking them into a significant deal with one team. Sometimes the process is necessary to reach a firm agreement. 

[*bfine32*]

(03-20-2022, 02:46 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: The second he left we should have “moved on”. That’s not to say we should pull the offer like some crybabies suggested last night, but that we should proceed by making offers/vists/etc to whoever is the teams next best option.

FA is too much of a whirlwind to sit around and hope he decides to sign with us. If we agree to a deal with the next best option before he makes up his mind then so be it. We can’t afford to wait on him and in the mean time miss out on our next two best options and have nothing but scrubs left afterwards to fill a starting spot.

When we are ready to sign option B we can call him and give him one last chance but anything more than that is irresponsible. I hope they are lining up visits for RT’s or extending offers as we speak.

You make fair points but to me that's not being forthright to whomever we bring in. 

"Hey Trenton we're gonna give you $39 MIL for 3 years"

"Great!! I'll take it"

"Hold on...We gotta call LC"

[Ell Prez]

(03-20-2022, 02:36 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: because both sides think they have each other by the balls.

Why would the Bengals have any leverage? He’s getting attention from other teams. Bengals are reported still very interested. Collins didn’t sign. Why? Is it because he doesn’t like our mascot? It’s money/guaranteed money. Maybe we do end up signing him Bc we were the highest/best offer. But we have such a strong need to upgrade the O Line, we shouldn’t be playing games. He’s a top 5 talent. Give him a contract he’ll want to sign.


We all cried and complained about the O line for 2 years! We lost the SB Bc of it. And now we have the chance to get a top 5 talent and we want to quarrel over x amount of money to get the deal done.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-20-2022, 02:58 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Why would the Bengals have any leverage? He’s getting attention from other teams. Bengals are reported still very interested. Collins didn’t sign. Why? Is it because he doesn’t like our mascot? It’s money/guaranteed money. Maybe we do end up signing him Bc we were the highest/best offer. But we have such a strong need to upgrade the O Line, we shouldn’t be playing games. He’s a top 5 talent. Give him a contract he’ll want to sign.


We all cried and complained about the O line for 2 years! We lost the SB Bc of it. And now we have the chance to get a top 5 talent and we want to quarrel over x amount of money to get the deal done.

Why would he sign this quickly? He has other teams interested. He's the best free agent RT.

[CloeHokie]

Well the dolphins are looking at armstead. That could save us. Have to count on other team being cheap too. But almost all of them aren't

[Ell Prez]

(03-20-2022, 03:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why would he sign this quickly? He has other teams interested. He's the best free agent RT.

Because if you give him a contract he likes, he’ll sign. How many of our previous FA’s signed without a visit vs doing the old school tour of clubs?

[leonardfan40]

(03-20-2022, 02:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You make fair points but to me that's not being forthright to whomever we bring in. 

"Hey Trenton we're gonna give you $39 MIL for 3 years"

"Great!! I'll take it"

"Hold on...We gotta call LC"

Teams negotiate with multiple players at the same time. Players negotiate with multiple teams at the same time. It’s not disingenuous unless you lie about it. You can tell player B up front you’re negotiating with another player or players.

It’s no different than what Collins is doing right now. You also don’t have to wait until the very last minute to tell Collins you need an answer. once the negotiations look to be close you can check in with LC to see where he stands. He’ll come back to us if he gets a better offer and try to start a bidding war. No problem with him doing that, everybody should do what’s in their own best interest. Right now it may be in his best interest to see what’s out there. If we are about to sign somebody and pull our offer it might be in his best interest to make his decision quickly. The longer the leash we give him the less reason he has to make up his mind anytime soon and the more backup options we may lose out on.

I’m not suggesting we lie or keep anyone in the dark. If you’re honest and upfront most people can handle it and understand the situation.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-20-2022, 02:58 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Why would the Bengals have any leverage? He’s getting attention from other teams. Bengals are reported still very interested. Collins didn’t sign. Why? Is it because he doesn’t like our mascot? It’s money/guaranteed money. Maybe we do end up signing him Bc we were the highest/best offer. But we have such a strong need to upgrade the O Line, we shouldn’t be playing games. He’s a top 5 talent. Give him a contract he’ll want to sign.


We all cried and complained about the O line for 2 years! We lost the SB Bc of it. And now we have the chance to get a top 5 talent and we want to quarrel over x amount of money to get the deal done.

We also got to the Super Bowl because of the strong signings of free agents in 2021 on defense. Massive part of the turnaround

[reuben.ahmed]

While on my daily walk I thought about this situation and thought if it's like a relationship, if you try too hard it could look bad (let's say if another team came around and just said we will give you X years for Y dollars take it or leave it). We spent a lot of time with this person trying to court them lol.

[KillerGoose]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but Cincinnati is rather cash poor, correct? This would explain why large, guaranteed contracts are few and far between here. I believe guaranteed money is paid out immediately into an escrow account.

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-20-2022, 03:10 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Someone correct me if I am wrong, but Cincinnati is rather cash poor, correct? This would explain why large, guaranteed contracts are few and far between here. I believe guaranteed money is paid out immediately into an escrow account.

I've heard mixed numbers but the numbers are tight. Also, the team typically likes to roll over 5 to 7 mil

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-20-2022, 02:48 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It's quite the opposite IMO. Joe's biggest flaw is that he plays hero ball and hangs onto the ball. Joe was responsible for quite a bit of those sacks. There are numerous examples of Burrow either not finishing his reads and just turtling or running around trying to make something happen and then getting sacked. It's something he will have to learn through. He doesn't have next level pocket presence - yet. If you want to watch that, watch Brady. 

But he escapes a ton of sacks where a lot of other QB’s would be dead to rights though. Some of the ones he slipped out of this past season were just insane.

[KillerGoose]

(03-20-2022, 03:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But he escapes a ton of sacks where a lot of other QB’s would be dead to rights though. Some of the ones he slipped out of this past season were just insane.

Oh for sure, he has great playmaking ability but you could argue that he gets in some of those situations by holding onto the ball for too long still.

The pressure issues are a combination of Burrow's developing pocket presence and playmaking plus poor offensive line play. 

[fredtoast]

(03-20-2022, 03:10 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Someone correct me if I am wrong, but Cincinnati is rather cash poor, correct? This would explain why large, guaranteed contracts are few and far between here. I believe guaranteed money is paid out immediately into an escrow account.

The team can continue to collect the interest earned from the money while it is held in an escrow account.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-20-2022, 03:04 PM)CloeHokie Wrote: Well the dolphins are looking at armstead. That could save us. Have to count on other team being cheap too. But almost all of them aren't

Denver is who we have to worry about. They need a RT, and they just restructured some of their contracts to free up some cap space.

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-20-2022, 03:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The team can continue to collect the interest earned from the money while it is held in an escrow account.

I wouldn't imagine that the interest rate would be all that high though.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-20-2022, 02:58 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Why would the Bengals have any leverage? He’s getting attention from other teams. Bengals are reported still very interested. Collins didn’t sign. Why? Is it because he doesn’t like our mascot? It’s money/guaranteed money. Maybe we do end up signing him Bc we were the highest/best offer. But we have such a strong need to upgrade the O Line, we shouldn’t be playing games. He’s a top 5 talent. Give him a contract he’ll want to sign.


We all cried and complained about the O line for 2 years! We lost the SB Bc of it. And now we have the chance to get a top 5 talent and we want to quarrel over x amount of money to get the deal done.

Not sure about top 5 talent but yes good but also with some issues with limited interest  so far .. and we signed 2 good lineman already on day 1 which we normally dont do.