Quick Hits: Bengals Hope To Copy Rams' Super Rebound; Postseason OT Revamped

[CardCounterChris]

(03-31-2022, 07:53 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Fair enough and true, yet I disagree. 

Heck fans were wanting Zac fired at the 3/4 pole of the season even. Agree though that there was a lot of talent on this squad that could only manage 10 wins in a 17 game season while the entire AFCN was horrible.  

Marvin had 3 teams that equaled that regular season win total, and 3 that surpassed it with 11-5, 11-5, 12-4 records while playing one less game even. They were very talented teams too.

But will say that the 2022 team features way more talent than any of Marvin's teams and I personally really liked last years team much better than those of Marvin's as well.  

Yet that is due to Zac's culture change.

TBF, I don't have a problem with Zac as coach, but I do still have an issue with Zac as play caller.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-31-2022, 02:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, and I saw his Rams go 9-7 and miss the playoffs the year after the Super Bowl.

Same exact "culture" but missing Suh, Marcus Peters, Roger Saffold, Aqib Talib, and John Sullivan.

Still, 9-7>4-12, 2-14, 5-10-1, etc. They retooled and won it all within three years. McVay is renowned as a player's coach. I wouldn't see why a former underling wouldn't try to tap into that.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-31-2022, 03:07 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: The Bengals had some luck, good coaching, disciplined team that rarely got caught for penalties and elite play at skill positions.  That's why they went to the Super Bowl.  That KC game which clinched the division title was a great example of all that.  All those KC penalties near the end of regulation sealed the win for the Bengals.  That's luck cuz another official might not call it.  

Chase and Burrow were phenomenal in the playoffs, both are rare talents for their ages.  

All their wins were with 3 pts or less during Jan and Feb, same for their lone loss.  Hairs difference from losing or winning by the Bengals, so not one thing, just a bunch of different ways that football bounced right for the team.

Yep, and the year prior, they lost those close games.

[Ell Prez]

(03-30-2022, 02:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice read. I just love how we have brought everybody back that really helped us get to that Superbowl. A lot of teams that 
win or lose the SB are completely overturned, lose coaches, players etc.

Bringing back BJ Hill was huge along with us fortifying the OL like we did with Cappa, Karras and Collins. Adding Hurst made
it so losing Uzo wasn't a big deal. I mean, we are arguably much better than that team that made the SB and was a play away
and our young coaches and players will only get better at what they do.

McVay said some good things about us, classy guy. Taylor would of done the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

I agree we got better. But we all just agree we got lucky. That’s not a bad thing. Making the SB takes luck. Takes luck on a call or two, health, big play. We could have easily lost any of our 3 games that we won.

I think repeating SB appearance will be extremely challenging. Especially with how stacked the AFC is this year.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-31-2022, 07:53 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Fair enough and true, yet I disagree. 

Heck fans were wanting Zac fired at the 3/4 pole of the season even. Agree though that there was a lot of talent on this squad that could only manage 10 wins in a 17 game season while the entire AFCN was horrible.  

Marvin had 3 teams that equaled that regular season win total, and 3 that surpassed it with 11-5, 11-5, 12-4 records while playing one less game even. They were very talented teams too.

But will say that the 2022 team features way more talent than any of Marvin's teams and I personally really liked last years team much better than those of Marvin's as well.  

Yet that is due to Zac's culture change.

That is an absolutely terrible argument, man. W/L isn't a clear way to gauge talent.

Andy Dalton
Benjarvus Green-Ellis
AJ Green
Mohamed Sanu
Tyler Eifert (not 2015 Eifert)
Jermaine Gresham 

or

Joe Burrow
Joe Mixon
Ja'Marr Chase
Tee Higgins
Tyler Boyd
CJ Uzomah

That's not even close. The defense is the same way... they had Brandon Thompson making 7 starts because Atkins missed half the year, 35-year-old James Harrison in a 4-3, Terrence Newman, Domata Peko, Michael Johnson, Rey Maualuga, George Iloka... none of these guys in 2013 would start on the 2021 Bengals.

Honestly on their entire 2013 defense, the only players that would start on the 2021 team would be Vontaze Burfict, Adam Jones, and Reggie Nelson (Atkins would, but he got hurt in the 9th game and then Brandon Thompson started the rest of the year). 

Zimmer was just simply a better DC than Lou is, not that he had better players.

- - - - - -

It is not due to Zac's "culture change" unless culture change is a code word for sucking your way into back-to-back top-5 picks that turn into Joe Burrow and Ja'Marr Chase, and then spending good money to sign good players in FA for the first time in franchise history. If that is the case, then agreed. Lol

[*Go Cards*]

(03-31-2022, 09:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That is an absolutely terrible argument, man. W/L isn't a clear way to gauge talent.

Andy Dalton
Benjarvus Green-Ellis
AJ Green
Mohamed Sanu
Tyler Eifert (not 2015 Eifert)
Jermaine Gresham 

or

Joe Burrow
Joe Mixon
Ja'Marr Chase
Tee Higgins
Tyler Boyd
CJ Uzomah

That's not even close. The defense is the same way... they had Brandon Thompson making 7 starts because Atkins missed half the year, 35-year-old James Harrison in a 4-3, Terrence Newman, Domata Peko, Michael Johnson, Rey Maualuga, George Iloka... none of these guys in 2013 would start on the 2021 Bengals.

Honestly on their entire 2013 defense, the only players that would start on the 2021 team would be Vontaze Burfict, Adam Jones, and Reggie Nelson (Atkins would, but he got hurt in the 9th game and then Brandon Thompson started the rest of the year). 

Zimmer was just simply a better DC than Lou is, not that he had better players.

- - - - - -

It is not due to Zac's "culture change" unless culture change is a code word for sucking your way into back-to-back top-5 picks that turn into Joe Burrow and Ja'Marr Chase, and then spending good money to sign good players in FA for the first time in franchise history. If that is the case, then agreed. Lol

The entire argument was whether talent is the reason for winning or not. Guess you've just proven that its not freakin talent according to win/loss records. 

Anyway , Rudi ran for more yards in 05 than Mixon did this year 1,458 to 1,205
Carson and Burrow were very close on TD's but Burrow had a few more INT's 
Chad and Chase were within 23 yds of each other
Higgins beat TJ by 135 yds but had less TD's 
CJ was clearly better than Kelly though
Boyd is a scale tipper though

Both had good teams

Plus wins is everything to me and why I love this Bengals team so much, playoff success.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-31-2022, 02:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, and I saw his Rams go 9-7 and miss the playoffs the year after the Super Bowl.

Same exact "culture" but missing Suh, Marcus Peters, Roger Saffold, Aqib Talib, and John Sullivan.

you forgot to mention that the Rams thought they had their QB of the future as well.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-31-2022, 11:29 PM)Go Cards Wrote: The entire argument was whether talent is the reason for winning or not. Guess you've just proven that its not freakin talent according to win/loss records. 

Anyway , Rudi ran for more yards in 05 than Mixon did this year 1,458 to 1,205
Carson and Burrow were very close on TD's but Burrow had a few more INT's 
Chad and Chase were within 23 yds of each other
Higgins beat TJ by 135 yds but had less TD's 
CJ was clearly better than Kelly though
Boyd is a scale tipper though

Both had good teams

Plus wins is everything to me and why I love this Bengals team so much, playoff success.

Winning is always easier with better talent, but talent doesn't always equal winning.

You can give both me and Jeff Gordan equal racing vehicles and he'll crush me. You give me a racing vehicle and him a moped and I will beat him.

Counting statists aren't a real good gauge either, honestly. 
AJ Green 2020: 16 games, 47/523 (11.1)/2
AJ Green 2021: 16 games, 54/848 (15.7)/3

It's not like AJ got more talented between years. 

Heck, 2005 is a great example of this. Santana Moss in 2005 had more receiving yards, higher YPC, and equal TDs compared to Chad in 2005. Nobody is going to be saying that Santana Moss is more talented than Chad Johnson, though. (Chad was 1st team All-Pro that year.)

- - - - - -

Yeah, I enjoyed the playoff run too. I am just saying it's not some mystical culture. It's getting better players. 2021 was probably the most talented team in Mike Brown's history. They were beat by the Rams who got even more talented players (and had better coaching who didn't have Samaje Perine be the one who had the entire SB rest on his shoulders).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-31-2022, 09:18 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: I agree we got better. But we all just agree we got lucky. That’s not a bad thing. Making the SB takes luck. Takes luck on a call or two, health, big play. We could have easily lost any of our 3 games that we won.

I think repeating SB appearance will be extremely challenging. Especially with how stacked the AFC is this year.

I don't believe in luck or coincidences. We made our own luck, lots of things went our way for once but that has to happen
with any team that makes it to the Superbowl. The difference now is that we have Joe Burrow who I believe makes everyone
better and if we get the ball last with our Kicker in a tie game we WILL win against anyone.

What I like now is that we might actually be scoring a lot of points and not have to be in such close games.

Having a decent running game behind this revamped OL will also help to keep our Defense fresh and we don't have to be 
just a quick scoring passing Offense. Would be nice to just wear Defenses down for once and punch it in instead of having 
to rely on Chase and Higgins for the big plays to win.

I agree repeating a SB appearance will be extremely challenging and that the AFC is stacked but it is supposed to be like 
that. It isn't supposed to be easy, all I know is that there isn't a team in the AFC let alone the NFL that I like better right 
now to go to the Superbowl this coming season. The Bills and Broncos I think will be tough along with the Chargers and 
maybe the Colts with Ryan now there but how are they going to beat Burrow and company with a good OL and this D that
will be improved?

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-01-2022, 01:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't believe in luck or coincidences. We made our own luck, lots of things went our way for once but that has to happen
with any team that makes it to the Superbowl. The difference now is that we have Joe Burrow who I believe makes everyone
better and if we get the ball last with our Kicker in a tie game we WILL win against anyone.

What I like now is that we might actually be scoring a lot of points and not have to be in such close games.

Having a decent running game behind this revamped OL will also help to keep our Defense fresh and we don't have to be 
just a quick scoring passing Offense. Would be nice to just wear Defenses down for once and punch it in instead of having 
to rely on Chase and Higgins for the big plays to win.

I agree repeating a SB appearance will be extremely challenging and that the AFC is stacked but it is supposed to be like 
that. It isn't supposed to be easy, all I know is that there isn't a team in the AFC let alone the NFL that I like better right 
now to go to the Superbowl this coming season. The Bills and Broncos I think will be tough along with the Chargers and 
maybe the Colts with Ryan now there but how are they going to beat Burrow and company with a good OL and this D that
will be improved?

The Rams were "lucky" to beat the 49ers ! Had the niners HC remembered they can run the ball in the 2nd half it's doubtful they even make the S.B. ?

[Murdock2420]

(04-01-2022, 06:16 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Rams were "lucky" to beat the 49ers ! Had the niners HC remembered they can run the ball in the 2nd half it's doubtful they even make the S.B. ?

You can make the luck argument for almost every team that is in the playoffs.

The Bengals were lucky they stayed so healthy... if they get the injuries like years past or like the Ravens did, it is doubtful they make the playoffs. See? It's coaching, players and luck all mixed together to crown a champion.

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-01-2022, 07:56 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: You can make the luck argument for almost every team that is in the playoffs.

The Bengals were lucky they stayed so healthy... if they get the injuries like years past or like the Ravens did, it is doubtful they make the playoffs. See? It's coaching, players and luck all mixed together to crown a champion.

For sure !

Some poster was saying the Bengals were "lucky". So I was saying everybody is "lucky" at some point to make the S.B. At least way more often than not. 

[Murdock2420]

(04-01-2022, 08:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: For sure !

Some poster was saying the Bengals were "lucky". So I was saying everybody is "lucky" at some point to make the S.B. At least way more often than not. 

Absolutely.

You didn't survive the regular season and playoffs without some good fortune helping you along the way.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-31-2022, 07:53 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Fair enough and true, yet I disagree. 

Heck fans were wanting Zac fired at the 3/4 pole of the season even. Agree though that there was a lot of talent on this squad that could only manage 10 wins in a 17 game season while the entire AFCN was horrible.  

Marvin had 3 teams that equaled that regular season win total, and 3 that surpassed it with 11-5, 11-5, 12-4 records while playing one less game even. They were very talented teams too.

But will say that the 2022 team features way more talent than any of Marvin's teams and I personally really liked last years team much better than those of Marvin's as well.  

Yet that is due to Zac's culture change.

This team had won what 5 games the last 2 years previous to this season? This team built momentum and confidence. This fan base is so hypercritical. They have a literally historic turnaround. Yet some want to say it was all the talent. They got there for a lot of reasons. They started gaining confidence when they waxed the Steelers and Ravens. But the culture at least some will admit contributed immensely. Changing after losing so many games isn’t like a light switch.

But the coaching of this staff gets ridiculously overlooked. Lou Anarumo coached brilliantly in the two KC games. Likewise on the road in the second half only 3 teams did better offensively . That’s not luck. The offense responded as did the defense against KC twice. The last minute playoff wins were evident of good offensive play calling.

This offense just got a new “hemi” engine. The OL is a game changer. Joe Mixon will go off this year. He’s going to take up so much attention that the receivers are going to be open all the time. Burrow with time is going to be unstoppable and Taylor won’t be limited.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2022, 12:09 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote:  They have a literally historic turnaround. Yet some want to say it was all the talent. 

We literally added historic talent in Burrow and Chase.

[*Go Cards*]

(04-02-2022, 12:09 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: This team had won what 5 games the last 2 years  previous to this season? This team built momentum and confidence. This fan base is so hypercritical. They have a literally historic turnaround. Yet some want to say it was all the talent. They got there for a lot of reasons. They started gaining confidence when they waxed the Steelers and Ravens. But the culture at least some will admit contributed immensely. Changing after losing so many games isn’t like a light switch.

But the coaching of this staff gets ridiculously overlooked. Lou Anarumo coached brilliantly in the two KC games. Likewise on the road in the second half only 3 teams did better offensively . That’s not luck. The offense responded as did the defense against KC twice. The last minute playoff wins were evident of good offensive play calling.

This offense just got a new “hemi” engine. The OL is a game changer. Joe Mixon will go off this year. He’s going to take up so much attention that the receivers are going to be open all the time. Burrow with time is going to be unstoppable and Taylor won’t be limited.

Agree completely, Bengals fans are just not happy being happy. 

Only moaning and groaning seems to float their boat.  Most had given up on this team at Bye week and then many still wanted the coach fired afterwards and now act like "well you could see that coming a mile away, look at all the talent". 

Evidently its just whichever way the wind blows.

 Enjoying every aspect of this team and what the coaches are doing. Plus agree with the new and  improved O-line the running game will be sick and we already know how good the passing game is already. So glad they went after run blockers to make it almost impossible to stop Bengals offense unless the defense just guesses right. 

Stoked for the upcoming season and loving the culture change.   

[*Go Cards*]

What about the oh so talented 4-12 Bengals 2010 team

Carson Palmer
Chad Johnson
Terrell Owens - Hall of Fame and one of the greatest of all-time
Jerome flippin' Simpson
Ced Benson
Jermaine Gresham
Andrew Whitworth
Andre Smith
Geno Atkins
Jonathan Joseph
Leon Hall
Pacman Jones
Reggie Nelson
Roy Williams
Carlos Dunlap
Michael Johnson
Peko
Tank Johnson

Mike Zimmer, Paul Guenther, Piano Man, and Marvin Lewis

These are all very talented individuals yet sometimes talent does not equate to wins or greatness. It takes something else from within that only a few disciplined individuals bring to the table.

Disclaimer, I'm no fan of Piano Man yet somebody arguing talent is a fan so I included as a joke

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-01-2022, 06:16 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Rams were "lucky" to beat the 49ers ! Had the niners HC remembered they can run the ball in the 2nd half it's doubtful they even make the S.B. ?

Yes sir. The 49ers just choked honestly. Dropped an easy interception and didn't run the ball.

(04-01-2022, 08:15 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Absolutely.

You didn't survive the regular season and playoffs without some good fortune helping you along the way.

That is definitely true, I just don't call it luck. We earned every win in the Playoffs and almost got the big one if Spain tries
to block Aaron Donald. I think we will improve our good fortunes significantly with this revamped O-line.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-02-2022, 02:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes sir. The 49ers just choked honestly. Dropped an easy interception and didn't run the ball.


That is definitely true, I just don't call it luck. We earned every win in the Playoffs and almost got the big one if Spain tries
to block Aaron Donald. I think we will improve our good fortunes significantly with this revamped O-line.

I’d give anything to get Zion Johnson.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-02-2022, 02:23 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’d give anything to get Zion Johnson.

You wanting to trade up for Zion? I think that is the only way we get him...