Is Jackson Carman "Your" Starting LG

[CloeHokie]

Depends on who we draft. If we grab one of the 2 top OGs in round 1 I would say let them duke it out and the best man win. I would prefer this.

[*bfine32*]

As of 4/6/22 YES. Ask me again on 4/28/22

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-06-2022, 08:31 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

Now I'm going to be fair to the guy because its still in the development stages of what he could become. The body of work is inconclusive because when we thought that he was turning the corner he was back benched . Now mind you I'd prefer a veteran as a starter initially but he's " A Guy You Specifically Selected!" Lets just exclude Paul Alexander to this point whom said that he is the starting RT.( Probably deleted from his feed for credibility purposes.)
Clemson:
https://youtu.be/7Mx-lqy4IYk
Bengals:
https://youtu.be/8bE1Luf2yFQ

My guess is that they roll with Jackson and give him competition late unless one of the Big 3 fall.
Linderbaum/ Johnson/ Green

PS :
To those still wanting Quinton Spain..... Why isn't he signed yet if hes that good! Stop it. I told you when FA started that he'd be guilty by association and available in July.

It is all about the back. If it is good I think Jackson Carman can be a fine Guard at LG if not the best in the NFL eventually.

If he has back problems all my thoughts are moot.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-06-2022, 08:31 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

Now I'm going to be fair to the guy because its still in the development stages of what he could become. The body of work is inconclusive because when we thought that he was turning the corner he was back benched . Now mind you I'd prefer a veteran as a starter initially but he's " A Guy You Specifically Selected!" Lets just exclude Paul Alexander to this point whom said that he is the starting RT.( Probably deleted from his feed for credibility purposes.)
Clemson:
https://youtu.be/7Mx-lqy4IYk
Bengals:
https://youtu.be/8bE1Luf2yFQ

My guess is that they roll with Jackson and give him competition late unless one of the Big 3 fall.
Linderbaum/ Johnson/ Green

PS :
To those still wanting Quinton Spain..... Why isn't he signed yet if hes that good! Stop it. I told you when FA started that he'd be guilty by association and available in July.

There are several things about Carman that give me hope that he takes over the job at LG and never looks back:  

One, he was 21 last year.  People seem to forget Whit wasn't a HOF his rookie season, either, and he was something like 28 before he became the starting LT.  Age does matter.

Two, he was injured late last year.  I was unaware of that as I believe many of us were.  I don't know the extent of the injury, and I know he wanted to play anyways.  But I am not going to hold that against him.

Three, he deserves the opportunity to learn from his previous mistake of not coming in to camp in great shape.  The veterans they added to the line can only help him.  

Lastly, he did show flashes where he mauled a guy.  A big guy.  Moved him like 10 yards downfield.  It happened more than once.  Strength he has...consistency is what needs work.  He could still go on to have a great career.  

That being said, I still try to bring back Spain as a quality competition and backup.  D'Ante Smith should be groomed as a tackle. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-06-2022, 08:43 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

I at the very least think strongly about the Big 3 if available at 31. I know hes putting in work but....

Linderbaum is my guy if he falls to 31.  That kicks Karras to LG and Carman will be developed as a backup for now.  The depth is almost always tested and this would be our best possible scenario to improve the entire offense.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-06-2022, 09:13 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Honestly, I'll be hammered hard on this, I would. We still have needs at CB, 3T and S. JC was a high pick so its inconceivable they throw in the towel so fast. Between those 3 though, I alternate between DT and CB with edge to CB slightly. Despite me loving CTB, if Elam is there at 31, I think I take him and don't look back. 3T, Winfrey fits their Senior Bowl standout player preference and was disruptive in the backfield all week.

That's what she said.  Sorry, never stops being funny for me...

Seriously, though, you bring up an excellent point.  Where is there more depth than on the offensive line now?  If Carman is the starter, then you have D'Ante Smith, Isiah Prince, Hakeem Adeniji, and Trey Hill as backups.   All guys that have seen some game action and know the system.  CB and 3T is paper thin in comparison.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-06-2022, 10:16 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: It’s honestly so hard to see the Bengals doing that. That’s admitting they made a wrong move three times. Trading back, Drafting Carman, and singing a C in FA only to draft one at 31.

I don’t think any of the O linemen will be there anyways. And I think it’s corner all day long. I’d rather have an edge if one was BPA. We seriously  need more rushers. If Trey Hendrickson goes down, we have absolutely no one who get get pressure consistently.

Agreed with everything here, except that last point.  Karras has experience playing LG, recently, and played very well there.  If  you can move him there and not weaken the line with the addition of a guy like Linderbaum, you have potentially improved all four weak spots on the line in one offseason.

Carman not starting at year 2 is not a sign that he is an epic failure.  You draft guys like him and hope they can contribute right away, but that is rarely the case.  They still have lots of time to develop Carman before he would become a free agent.  Having guys groomed to take over when it is their turn is how you avoid massive drop offs in talent when you lose veterans to FA.  You can't simply address every position in FA...there just isn't enough dollars to go around.

That is another reason why you most likely draft a CB or EDGE rusher.  The absurd cost of those positions once they hit their second contract (if they are a solid player).  Just look at the difference between a top slot CB and a top outside CB.  About $10 million per year.  Ditto top EDGE rusher vs. Top interior rusher.  

I still like Linderbaum because I believe the experts that see him as a top 15 talent that would be a steal at 31, but I don't think he will be there so it doesn't really matter.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

At this point, i really can't give a definite answer.

to me, who's left in FA plays a big part in how i would draft.

For example, if JC Tretter is still a FA once the draft starts, then i'd likely skip on drafting on OL early and try to fill other needs. Then after, try to fill my weakest spot with a solid vet, and give them a 1 year deal. Something like that would ensure that I know if Carman can handle LG without sacrificing Burrow.

[bonesaw]

I mean Carman had some wow moments with violent blocks. He had some rookie mental mistakes and being in the wrong spot/set but it wasn't like he got tossed around like Adenji and Spain often did

[XenoMorph]

If he wins it in camp against someone else with a shot sure.. But should not just be handed to him

[*ochocincos*]

(04-06-2022, 08:47 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: If he shows up healthy and in shape I think he will earn it. Being back on the left side might help. If he can get his back right I think he is a stud.

If health continues to be a problem for Carman, he'll be yet another example of Bengals taking a gamble on a guy with health issues/concerns when drafted that didn't actually pan out.
Hopefully Carman follows more like Jonah Williams, who has continued to improve since he was out his whole rookie year and has become a good starter in short time.

[*Go Cards*]

(04-06-2022, 11:15 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: he's ok. Average. He was the 2nd best lineman on the team in 2021 at the end of the day

the 2nd best lineman on a horrible line is not saying much. 

Every team needs O-lineman and if he was average he would already be employed imo. 

Not saying he will not be employed but the length of time it's taking is very telling when most teams seek O-line help. 

Yet my opinion was unpopular when giving it in midseason and suspect it always will be on here. Still my opinion though. 

[SunsetBengal]

Carman is definitely talented enough to be the starting LG. The question is will he be physically capable of holding down the job? And, is it really what's best for the team? Coming off of a Superbowl season, the Bengals will have one of the hardest strength of schedules in the league. The last thing they need is to be having to shuffle the OL to accommodate a player with a pre-existing condition.

[007BengalsFan]

Carman had back surgery before the season started last year and then missed playing in the Super Bowl because of his back issues. I would be almost willing to bet he has back issues again this year and misses playing time.

[Housh]

I don’t really see any rookie beating out a healthy Carmen or Spain if brought back.


Just hope he’s healthy and takes a step. If he’s our weak link teams will target him relentlessly

[007BengalsFan]

(04-07-2022, 08:14 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: At this point, i really can't give a definite answer.

to me, who's left in FA plays a big part in how i would draft.

For example, if JC Tretter is still a FA once the draft starts, then i'd likely skip on drafting on OL early and try to fill other needs. Then after, try to fill my weakest spot with a solid vet, and give them a 1 year deal. Something like that would ensure that I know if Carman can handle LG without sacrificing Burrow.

I would sign Tretter now and move Karras to LG.  That would be a pretty good offensive line and better than we currently have.  You wouldnt need to worry about if Linderbaum were there at 31 or any other O-lineman.  You could concentrate most of the draft on making the defense better.

If we go with our currently signed guys on O-line, that leaves a question mark at LG.  How will Carman handle the job.  Can he stay healthy.  Then you have Karras at center.  He played much better at guard.  When he played center his PFF was on par with Hopkins.  I would rather have Karras at left guard where he played better and sign an elite center like Tretter.  Our Oline would be much better with this setup.  Right now we have only upgraded two spots on the O-line and that is RG and RT.  The rest is on par with last year.  I think we still need to improve on the O-line. 

Drafting someone to help the Oline is always a guessing game.  You dont know how they will pan out.  Right now we have a chance to sign a know commodity in Tretter.  You sign him and you know you have improved the Oline.  Make the Oline good by signing Tretter and use the draft to improve the defense.

[Frank Booth]

(04-07-2022, 10:21 AM)Go Cards Wrote: the 2nd best lineman on a horrible line is not saying much. 

Every team needs O-lineman and if he was average he would already be employed imo. 

Not saying he will not be employed but the length of time it's taking is very telling when most teams seek O-line help. 

Yet my opinion was unpopular when giving it in midseason and suspect it always will be on here. Still my opinion though. 

He’s not employed because teams are hesitant to give multiple years to a guy who’s over 30 and is average. Plus, those kinds of players get paid like dirt nowadays. Spain wants to make more than that

I’d love to see him back in cincy though. Great insurance if Carman whiffs in preseason

[*Go Cards*]

(04-07-2022, 11:30 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: He’s not employed because teams are hesitant to give multiple years to a guy who’s over 30 and is average. Plus, those kinds of players get paid like dirt nowadays. Spain wants to make more than that

I’d love to see him back in cincy though. Great insurance if Carman whiffs in preseason

We differ on this opinion but maybe he can be better with the better supporting cast the Bengals now have. 

Yet definitely don't want him back if if he is wanting above market value on a 3 year deal as you're suggesting. Bengals need to spend remaining cap money very wisely.

Would take him on the cheap for 1 or 2 years maybe.  Yet really hoping the Bengals are aspiring for much better and they've rarely missed in draft lately which would be much friendlier on the cap. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-07-2022, 10:28 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Carman is definitely talented enough to be the starting LG.  The question is will he be physically capable of holding down the job?  And, is it really what's best for the team?  Coming off of a Superbowl season, the Bengals will have one of the hardest strength of schedules in the league.  The last thing they need is to be having to shuffle the OL to accommodate a player with a pre-existing condition.

Agree

I'm a little hesitant to just pencil in Carman as starting LG. Especially considering our backups !

Starters being Williams Carman Karras Cappa Collins. Then look at the backups - OT Prince ummmm OG's Adeniji and Smith neither of which I have much faith in. Then the two dudes at C.

People talk about how we need depth at DT, CB, S and I don't disagree. However, our depth at Oline is very weak IMHO. I know when do you ever have great depth ? I get it. But it seems to me we could at least get a little better.

The shorter version is I wish they would bring Spain back or some other vet more established backup in case Carman falters.

[northernbengal]

(04-06-2022, 09:13 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Honestly, I'll be hammered hard on this, I would. We still have needs at CB, 3T and S. JC was a high pick so its inconceivable they throw in the towel so fast. Between those 3 though, I alternate between DT and CB with edge to CB slightly. Despite me loving CTB, if Elam is there at 31, I think I take him and don't look back. 3T, Winfrey fits their Senior Bowl standout player preference and was disruptive in the backfield all week.

You're right on. Also aside from Jonah I think all the OL starters are on 3 year deals. So even with the fifth year options you get two years at most. We need to give Carman another year and reevaluate next year. If things look bad by week 7 then we should look to trade to replace him.