Zach Wilson - First round pick. When do you give up?

[CloeHokie]

Lately a lot of you have said I will never give up on a early draft pick like Carman. He's too early of a pick to draft a possible replacement. I have made the argument that waiting to bring in competition regardless of where they are drafted can be harmful to the team.

Let's look at Zach Wilson. First round pick and early. He's awful. I don't need 3 more seasons to see it. Neither do most FA who aren't desperate according to this

"An NFL executive told Sando that the Jets "were in on a ton of guys and got nobody," including Tyreek Hill, who chose the Dolphins over the Jets when Kansas City granted him permission to seek a trade in March. “They don’t have a selling point to players right now," the executive said. "People don’t know what to think of Zach Wilson, players don’t necessarily covet playing in that market, and guys who have choices tend to wind up elsewhere. They are in this weird purgatory."

How long should the Jets just sit back and say hey he's the guy. We don't need to bring in any competition. Should no one challenge him for the starting job? If so how does that not hurt they team? Letting a garbage bag in there for another 3 years just because? Maybe he will improve! I'd say Joe flacco isn't really competition so let's see how it pans out for them sticking to their guns this year. Everything I have ever watched and seen tells me they will be wrong. But hey, let optimism run the franchise and let's see where it gets them! If they are smart they should see what QBs are around in this draft at least later to bring in some competition in case he doesn't get better which seems most likely to me

[leonardfan40]

It depends on the player and the situation. Zach was always going to need time and coaching. The competition increases drastically from BYU to the NFL. You don’t give up on the number 2 pick in the draft after less than a full season. This expectation that players need to be stars year one is ridiculous. I was never impressed by Wilson but giving up on him already would be stupid.

If we are talking Carman, giving up on an extremely talented OL after his rookie year would also be stupid. It’s not an easy transition to play OL in the NFL. There are tons of examples of OL struggling year one and going on to have good careers. There are just not that many good OL in the league and the ones coming in are typically not ready. It’s been that way for years, there is an OL talent shortage in the NFL and that isn’t going away any time soon. You need to be able to develop the guys you draft, not give up on them after a few months because they weren’t plug and play all stars.

I’d be fine bringing back Spain cheap to compete, or drafting o line in rounds 3-4 to compete and be a backup (Someone with G/C versatility would be perfect), but you don’t go replace him with a 1st-2nd rounder already. We have 4/5 of O line spots locked up for multiple years.

[XenoMorph]

(04-11-2022, 11:16 AM)CloeHokie Wrote: Lately a lot of you have said I will never give up on a early draft pick like Carman. He's too early of a pick to draft a possible replacement. I have made the argument that waiting to bring in competition regardless of where they are drafted can be harmful to the team.

Let's look at Zach Wilson. First round pick and early. He's awful. I don't need 3 more seasons to see it. Neither do most FA who aren't desperate according to this

"An NFL executive told Sando that the Jets "were in on a ton of guys and got nobody," including Tyreek Hill, who chose the Dolphins over the Jets when Kansas City granted him permission to seek a trade in March. “They don’t have a selling point to players right now," the executive said. "People don’t know what to think of Zach Wilson, players don’t necessarily covet playing in that market, and guys who have choices tend to wind up elsewhere. They are in this weird purgatory."

How long should the Jets just sit back and say hey he's the guy. We don't need to bring in any competition. Should no one challenge him for the starting job? If so how does that not hurt they team? Letting a garbage bag in there for another 3 years just because? Maybe he will improve!  I'd say Joe flacco isn't really competition so let's see how it pans out for them sticking to their guns this year. Everything I have ever watched and seen tells me they will be wrong. But hey, let optimism run the franchise and let's see where it gets them! If they are smart they should see what QBs are around in this draft at least later to bring in some competition in case he doesn't get better which seems most likely to me

I would say its too early to just cut Carman.   But i would not pencil him in as the starter yet either after what we saw last year....  

And we still need better depth across all the OL

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(04-11-2022, 11:16 AM)CloeHokie Wrote: Lately a lot of you have said I will never give up on a early draft pick like Carman. He's too early of a pick to draft a possible replacement. I have made the argument that waiting to bring in competition regardless of where they are drafted can be harmful to the team.

Let's look at Zach Wilson. First round pick and early. He's awful. I don't need 3 more seasons to see it. Neither do most FA who aren't desperate according to this

"An NFL executive told Sando that the Jets "were in on a ton of guys and got nobody," including Tyreek Hill, who chose the Dolphins over the Jets when Kansas City granted him permission to seek a trade in March. “They don’t have a selling point to players right now," the executive said. "People don’t know what to think of Zach Wilson, players don’t necessarily covet playing in that market, and guys who have choices tend to wind up elsewhere. They are in this weird purgatory."

How long should the Jets just sit back and say hey he's the guy. We don't need to bring in any competition. Should no one challenge him for the starting job? If so how does that not hurt they team? Letting a garbage bag in there for another 3 years just because? Maybe he will improve! I'd say Joe flacco isn't really competition so let's see how it pans out for them sticking to their guns this year. Everything I have ever watched and seen tells me they will be wrong. But hey, let optimism run the franchise and let's see where it gets them! If they are smart they should see what QBs are around in this draft at least later to bring in some competition in case he doesn't get better which seems most likely to me

Maybe if there was someone worth taking at QB in this years draft class but honestly Zach’s probably more appealing than anyone in this class. Might as well roll with him for at least one more year and see what you can do. I would have suggested increasing the talent around him but it sounds like they tried and failed at that.

[ElkValleyBengal]

One need only look at the state income tax structure for New York vs. Florida to see why Hill chose the Dolphins over the Jets. Again, money talks. The teammates are a nice bonus.

[*jason*]

I dunno... More than one season though. Half a season in Carman's case. I do know that the Jets have been pitiful at identifying, developing, and retaining first round talent though. Go have a look at their last 10 drafts or so... It'd be depressing if that was my team.

[plantmanky]

Its the JETS! the whole team sucks. What is he supposed to be working with on the JETS.

[puddycat]

For Zach Wilson, the end of his 1st contract, or until a replacement costs less. His salary in 2024 is $5.2M, high for a backup QB, but not unreasonably so. QB is complicated by the tendency of teams not to carry backups that could threaten the starter because QBs are sensitive geniuses
Carman will be paid $1.6M in 2024. He's not going anywhere. At that price, he only leaves if he can be replaced at low cost because the team can't afford the chance of him seeing the field. We're not there.

[sandwedge]

I think the kid needs some weapons on the field with him.

[Sled21]

I still can't believe we are still having these conversations about Carman. The dude was a rookie coming off back surgery, who not only changed positions but also changed sides of the line, and showed some flashes of what he's capable of, and has shown the power necessary to dominate the opposing linemen. All the coaches say is he needs to be more consistent, as almost anyone in a new job would need to be. And some are ready to already label him a bust and move on. It's just baffling.....

[XenoMorph]

(04-14-2022, 09:24 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I still can't believe we are still  having these conversations about Carman. The dude was a rookie coming off back surgery, who not only changed positions but also changed sides of the line, and showed some flashes of what he's capable of, and has shown the power necessary to dominate the opposing linemen. All the coaches say is he needs to be more consistent, as almost anyone in a new job would need to be. And some are ready to already label him a bust and move on. It's just baffling.....

its the Era of Instant Gratification....

[CloeHokie]

Ahem. Like I said. Sometimes you can just see garbage. Garbage does not get better. It rots

[SunsetBengal]

(12-17-2022, 12:18 PM)CloeHokie Wrote: Ahem. Like I said. Sometimes you can just see garbage. Garbage does not get better. It rots

The small but growing Cordell Volson fan club supports this message.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(12-17-2022, 12:18 PM)CloeHokie Wrote: Ahem. Like I said. Sometimes you can just see garbage. Garbage does not get better. It rots

Speaking of Zach Wilson, I'm curious how Kenny Pickett would have been if the Jets had drafted him. Kid certainly hasn't played lights out, but you got to credit the dude for going out there and slinging the ball around and trying to make plays. I think he might be okay for Pittsburgh. Really interested to see how year two goes. Being the Steelers I hope he sucks ass, but if I try to not be biased he's intriguing.


They definitely made the right choice with Sauce Gardner.

Also I would roll with Mike White the rest of the season. Even Joe Flacco outperformed Wilson this year in my opinion. Joe should be the #2.

[MTBengalsFan]

(12-19-2022, 01:00 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Speaking of Zach Wilson, I'm curious how Kenny Pickett would have been if the Jets had drafted him. Kid certainly hasn't played lights out, but you got to credit the dude for going out there and slinging the ball around and trying to make plays. I think he might be okay for Pittsburgh. Really interested to see how year two goes. Being the Steelers I hope he sucks ass, but if I try to not be biased he's intriguing.


They definitely made the right choice with Sauce Gardner.

Also I would roll with Mike White the rest of the season. Even Joe Flacco outperformed Wilson this year in my opinion. Joe should be the #2.

I think you give Wilson the rest of the year to prove himself. The Jets are going to get to a place where college QB's are going to pull an "Eli" and tell them to pick somebody, especially if they're entering the draft after having  signed a multi-millions contract in college.

Play him , then trade him. It'll let future picks know they're not forever stuck with the Jets, a QB's hraveyard.

[*bengalfan74*]

Wilson has a serious attitude problem. I'd say his time in New York is over.

[jfkbengals]

(12-25-2022, 04:32 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Wilson has a serious attitude problem. I'd say his time in New York is over.

There was a headline yesterday that the Jets FO has already decided to move on from him after this season.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-25-2022, 04:35 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: There was a headline yesterday that the Jets FO has already decided to move on from him after this season.

Doesn't surprise me. Like the announcers said a game or two ago. He'll wow you with a lazer 40 yards down the field right in stride to WR. Then the next 3 series you're like they drafted this guy in the first round ?

He's not worth the trouble of trying to coach up with that attitude.

[CKwi88]

Back in April it might have still been premature, but at this point yeah, Wilson is looking done. Between the Jets looking like they are a QB away from contention and his deficiencies as a leader, best to just stop the bleeding now. If the team was still in a long-haul rebuild and Wilson displayed any of the intangibles you want in a QB there might have been justification for a year 3.

[Bengal Dude]

(12-25-2022, 04:35 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: There was a headline yesterday that the Jets FO has already decided to move on from him after this season.

I'm really curious to see what team trades capital for Wilson.