Trade Down Mock

[leonardfan40]

Did one trade down with our first pick. We get pick 45 and 76 from Baltimore. They get pick 31. Trade value chart favors us a bit but I believe those are a little outdated since the addition of the 5th year option on 1st round contracts.

Round 2-Pick 45: Nik Bonitto DE Oklahoma




Excellent pass rusher, probably all he will ever be which is fine. I love Ossai and our two starting ends, but even with Ossai hopefully healthy and productive we should still add another pass rusher. Bonitto is the perfect value here. Won’t be a 3 down DE but that’s not what we need. 


Round 2-Pick 63: Darian Kinnard OG/OT Kentucky 



D line with the first pick, O line with the 2nd. Sure looks like he eats glass in this pic. Consensus seems to be that he will move inside in the NFL which is fine, but I think he could be at min a VERY solid backup at tackle and maybe a starter out there. He competes with Carman for G year one. If he loses he competes at G/T for first man up and 6th O lineman duties.


Round 3-Pick 76: David Bell WR Purdue




A very underrated WR in a very good class. Seems like the forgotten man. Could easily be a top 50 pick most years but is still there in the middle of the 3rd. Easy choice, great value, solidifies our #4 WR spot this year with potential to become a starter in short order if need be.


Round 3-Pick 95: Marcus Jones CB Houston 





Another great value who can be one of the best CB#4’s for us on day one with starter potential. Great athleticism, can rotate at CB early on and add real ST’s value on top of that.


Round 4-Pick 136: Charlie Kolar TE Iowa State

Extremely productive TE in college. Could see him going much higher but appears to be another forgotten player in this draft. Steal potential late in the 4th. Worst case he should be a solid and affordable TE2 for the next 4 years, but I have higher hopes than that for him.


Round 5-Pick 174: Cordale Flott CB LSU

Developmental CB. Needs weight and some refinement but we can stomach that in round 5 with him being the 2nd CB we take. Bengals sent secondary coaches to LSU pro day. Everyone assumed it was for Stingley but him making it to 31 is highly unlikely, don’t be surprised if we take a chance on Flott on day 3.

Round 6: Jerrion Ealy RB Ole Miss

Low risk, high potential. Can upgrade the RB depth chart right away and maybe develop into more than that down the road 

Round 7: Brad Hawkins S Michigan 

Round 7: Austin Deculus OT LSU

I’ll try to add pics later.

[CJD]

My issues with this draft:

If we are trading for a division rival, I don't want a fair deal from them. I want to rake them over the coals. Getting a first round pick for a mid second and mid third is a great deal for them. It would be a fair-ish to slightly underwhelming deal for us with any given team, but only getting those picks from a division rival who just got to hand pick their player who they now get for at least 5 years is a terrible deal for us.

For reference, Baltimore traded up from 52 to 32 in 2018 and it cost them a 2nd round pick in 2018 and a 2nd round pick in 2019 which ended up being the 53rd overall pick in that draft (as well as a 4th round pick swap).

I'd accept nothing less than that from a division rival looking to trade up.

Bonitto is not a player that the Bengals typically take. I would be surprised if they took a guy who has no value in the run game. That said, I don't think he'd be a terrible pick, but these small-ish pass rushers are risky. They're also volatile. We all remember how Vic Beasley caught fire in 2016 and played 5 more years after that for teams just waiting for him to do anything close to that again. Bruce Irvin had similar peaks and valleys.

I don't like the Kinnard pick because I don't like this whole "take a tackle and convert him to a guard" thing. We tried it with Carman, he struggled. If we're going Oline, give me a guy who I can trust can come in day 1 and play at a high level. I don't want a guy who needs to learn a new position.

David Bell tested horrifically. a 6'1" 210 lb receiver running a 4.65 with a 33" vert, 118" broad, 4.57 shuttle and 7.14 3 cone is scary as shit. According to Mathbomb, the average WR from 1987 to 2022 had a 4.58 40, 34.5" vert, 119" broad, 4.29 shuttle and 7.06 3 cone. Spending a 3rd round pick on a guy who is below average in every single speed, power and agility drill is too risky for my blood. Lots of productive college players flame out in the NFL with better athletic profiles than that.

Jones is a slot corner, only 5'8". We need someone who can contest Apple on the outside. I have no faith that we'd get much value out of Jones for at least 2 to 3 years.

I do like Kolar though, and don't have a problem with Flott in the 5th.

[SunsetBengal]

I had to vote "no", based upon the principle that I'm against trades that strengthen division rivals, especially when you consider how competitive the AFCN should be this season.

[leonardfan40]

(04-12-2022, 03:26 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: My issues with this draft:

If we are trading for a division rival, I don't want a fair deal from them. I want to rake them over the coals. Getting a first round pick for a mid second and mid third is a great deal for them. It would be a fair-ish to slightly underwhelming deal for us with any given team, but only getting those picks from a division rival who just got to hand pick their player who they now get for at least 5 years is a terrible deal for us.

For reference, Baltimore traded up from 52 to 32 in 2018 and it cost them a 2nd round pick in 2018 and a 2nd round pick in 2019 which ended up being the 53rd overall pick in that draft (as well as a 4th round pick swap).

I'd accept nothing less than that from a division rival looking to trade up.

Bonitto is not a player that the Bengals typically take. I would be surprised if they took a guy who has no value in the run game. That said, I don't think he'd be a terrible pick, but these small-ish pass rushers are risky. They're also volatile. We all remember how Vic  Beasley caught fire in 2016 and played 5 more years after that for teams just waiting for him to do anything close to that again. Bruce Irvin had similar peaks and valleys.

I don't like the Kinnard pick because I don't like this whole "take a tackle and convert him to a guard" thing. We tried it with Carman, he struggled. If we're going Oline, give me a guy who I can trust can come in day 1 and play at a high level. I don't want a guy who needs to learn a new position.

David Bell tested horrifically. a 6'1" 210 lb receiver running a 4.65 with a 33" vert, 118" broad, 4.57 shuttle and 7.14 3 cone is scary as shit. According to Mathbomb, the average WR from 1987 to 2022 had a 4.58 40, 34.5" vert, 119" broad, 4.29 shuttle and 7.06 3 cone. Spending a 3rd round pick on a guy who is below average in every single speed, power and agility drill is too risky for my blood. Lots of productive college players flame out in the NFL with better athletic profiles than that.

Jones is a slot corner, only 5'8". We need someone who can contest Apple on the outside. I have no faith that we'd get much value out of Jones for at least 2 to 3 years.

I do like Kolar though, and don't have a problem with Flott in the 5th.

As far as the trade goes, trade value chart has it lopsided for Cincy giving up 600 pts but getting 660 back. Now I don’t think those charts are all that great but it gives you the ballpark. In 2018 Bal moved up 20 spots and basically only gave up a future 2nd rounder. Future picks are not as valuable as current year picks (would you rather have $100 today or $100 a year from now).

In this case they’d only be moving up 14 spots and giving up a day 2 pick to do it. Now maybe we could try to get their 4th rounder too but that would push things way in our favor. I’d obviously take the extra pick if it was there to be had. And yes this could strengthen Bal but it also strengthens us with another valuable player.

For perspective, in 2020 the Chargers moved from 37 to 23 and only gave up pick 71. That’s 14 spots, just like the trade in this mock. Only difference is pick 23 is more valuable than 31.

For Bell, there are more than just measurables that make up good WR’s. For instance, based on those numbers Tyler Boyd would be a completely “average” WR out of ALL WR’s tested. A ton of those never accomplished anything in the NFL including guys with much better numbers than Boyd. Then of the ones who actually have done anything I’d say Boyd would still probably be better than average of those guys. Bell’s tape speaks for itself, he’s an NFL WR. His numbers aren’t the best, but when combined with his tape they are more than good enough to be a starter at the next level.

I agree on Jones, I didn’t want to reach at CB and he was a great value but not really what we are needing at the moment. That’s why I doubled up. If it played out like this I’d be looking to add Steven Nelson or someone similar in FA. I was also thinking Hilton’s contract was up next year but looks like we’ve got him locked up 3 more years. May flip him out.

I also agree Bonitto is not the guy we usually take, but I’d argue he is exactly what we need at this point. We have DE depth. We lack pass rush depth outside of Hendrickson, Hubbard and hopefully Ossai. We need a guy who can wreak havoc as we have multiple “well rounded” guys back there who are mediocre at best getting after the QB

[pulses]

(04-12-2022, 03:26 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: My issues with this draft:

If we are trading for a division rival, I don't want a fair deal from them. I want to rake them over the coals. Getting a first round pick for a mid second and mid third is a great deal for them. It would be a fair-ish to slightly underwhelming deal for us with any given team, but only getting those picks from a division rival who just got to hand pick their player who they now get for at least 5 years is a terrible deal for us.

For reference, Baltimore traded up from 52 to 32 in 2018 and it cost them a 2nd round pick in 2018 and a 2nd round pick in 2019 which ended up being the 53rd overall pick in that draft (as well as a 4th round pick swap).

I'd accept nothing less than that from a division rival looking to trade up.

Bonitto is not a player that the Bengals typically take. I would be surprised if they took a guy who has no value in the run game. That said, I don't think he'd be a terrible pick, but these small-ish pass rushers are risky. They're also volatile. We all remember how Vic  Beasley caught fire in 2016 and played 5 more years after that for teams just waiting for him to do anything close to that again. Bruce Irvin had similar peaks and valleys.

I don't like the Kinnard pick because I don't like this whole "take a tackle and convert him to a guard" thing. We tried it with Carman, he struggled. If we're going Oline, give me a guy who I can trust can come in day 1 and play at a high level. I don't want a guy who needs to learn a new position.

David Bell tested horrifically. a 6'1" 210 lb receiver running a 4.65 with a 33" vert, 118" broad, 4.57 shuttle and 7.14 3 cone is scary as shit. According to Mathbomb, the average WR from 1987 to 2022 had a 4.58 40, 34.5" vert, 119" broad, 4.29 shuttle and 7.06 3 cone. Spending a 3rd round pick on a guy who is below average in every single speed, power and agility drill is too risky for my blood. Lots of productive college players flame out in the NFL with better athletic profiles than that.

Jones is a slot corner, only 5'8". We need someone who can contest Apple on the outside. I have no faith that we'd get much value out of Jones for at least 2 to 3 years.

I do like Kolar though, and don't have a problem with Flott in the 5th.

David Bell was even worse at his pro day running 4.71. That dude is overrated not underrated.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-12-2022, 02:58 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Did one trade down with our first pick. We get pick 45 and 76 from Baltimore. They get pick 31. Trade value chart favors us a bit but I believe those are a little outdated since the addition of the 5th year option on 1st round contracts.

Round 2-Pick 45: Nik Bonitto DE Oklahoma




Excellent pass rusher, probably all he will ever be which is fine. I love Ossai and our two starting ends, but even with Ossai hopefully healthy and productive we should still add another pass rusher. Bonitto is the perfect value here. Won’t be a 3 down DE but that’s not what we need. 


Round 2-Pick 63: Darian Kinnard OG/OT Kentucky 



D line with the first pick, O line with the 2nd. Sure looks like he eats glass in this pic. Consensus seems to be that he will move inside in the NFL which is fine, but I think he could be at min a VERY solid backup at tackle and maybe a starter out there. He competes with Carman for G year one. If he loses he competes at G/T for first man up and 6th O lineman duties.


Round 3-Pick 76: David Bell WR Purdue




A very underrated WR in a very good class. Seems like the forgotten man. Could easily be a top 50 pick most years but is still there in the middle of the 3rd. Easy choice, great value, solidifies our #4 WR spot this year with potential to become a starter in short order if need be.


Round 3-Pick 95: Marcus Jones CB Houston 





Another great value who can be one of the best CB#4’s for us on day one with starter potential. Great athleticism, can rotate at CB early on and add real ST’s value on top of that.


Round 4-Pick 136: Charlie Kolar TE Iowa State

Extremely productive TE in college. Could see him going much higher but appears to be another forgotten player in this draft. Steal potential late in the 4th. Worst case he should be a solid and affordable TE2 for the next 4 years, but I have higher hopes than that for him.


Round 5-Pick 174: Cordale Flott CB LSU

Developmental CB. Needs weight and some refinement but we can stomach that in round 5 with him being the 2nd CB we take. Bengals sent secondary coaches to LSU pro day. Everyone assumed it was for Stingley but him making it to 31 is highly unlikely, don’t be surprised if we take a chance on Flott on day 3.

Round 6: Jerrion Ealy RB Ole Miss

Low risk, high potential. Can upgrade the RB depth chart right away and maybe develop into more than that down the road 

Round 7: Brad Hawkins S Michigan 

Round 7: Austin Deculus OT LSU

I’ll try to add pics later.

Some questions before I submit my vote...

Bonitto - Is he able to play 4-3 DE? From what I've read about him, he's more of a pass rusher from the LB position, not a DL.
Kinnard - Do people think he's athletic enough to succeed in Bengals scheme? I know he tested horribly at the Combine on the athletic drills. He has great length and size though. Big power guy.
Bell - Is the thought for him to be a big slot guy? He's too slow to play outside. 
Marcus Jones - Do people think he can cover outside? He's real short at 5'8". If he's slot-only, he could be riding the bench a lot unless/until there's an injury to Hilton.

Right now, I'm leaning heavily toward no, but depending on the answers to my above questions, I might be convinced to say yes.

[leonardfan40]

(04-12-2022, 05:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Some questions before I submit my vote...

Bonitto - Is he able to play 4-3 DE? From what I've read about him, he's more of a pass rusher from the LB position, not a DL.
Kinnard - Do people think he's athletic enough to succeed in Bengals scheme? I know he tested horribly at the Combine on the athletic drills. He has great length and size though. Big power guy.
Bell - Is the thought for him to be a big slot guy? He's too slow to play outside. 
Marcus Jones - Do people think he can cover outside? He's real short at 5'8". If he's slot-only, he could be riding the bench a lot unless/until there's an injury to Hilton.

Right now, I'm leaning heavily toward no, but depending on the answers to my above questions, I might be convinced to say yes.

Bonitto will definitely be a pass rush specialist. He can rush standing up or with a hand down at the end of the line. He will never be a 3 down DE in a 4-3 but can absolutely be effective being brought in on passing downs to rush from either spot and add that wrinkle to our D.

Kinnard questions are really about his ability to play Tackle and they are fair. I’d argue at worst he could be a backup or emergency tackle while starting at G. I don’t have any concerns about his skill set at G. Someone already mentioned here they don’t like moving guys from college (like Carman) that’s for every person to decide. I’d rather take the best OL and move him to G than take a lesser talent who played at the same position in college but wasn’t nearly as good as Kinnard. College to NFL o line jump is big for just about everyone with the way the games are played now. Everyone could use time. Kinnard will have time to be a backup if he isn’t ready day one but I think he’d give Carman a good competition for the starting spot day 1.

Bell- people are going soooo far overboard with his testing results and obviously have never seen him play. I view him as a guy you move around. He can absolutely play inside and outside. I could see him being moved around so much it’d be close to 50/50 split. He is a polished route runner but does lack that extra gear that would make him a sure fire 1st rounder.
If you’re concerned with his measurements go look at Cooper Kupp’s.

Jones- see previous reply

[*ochocincos*]

(04-12-2022, 05:19 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Bonitto will definitely be a pass rush specialist. He can rush standing up or with a hand down at the end of the line. He will never be a 3 down DE in a 4-3 but can absolutely be effective being brought in on passing downs to rush from either spot and add that wrinkle to our D.

Kinnard questions are really about his ability to play Tackle and they are fair. I’d argue at worst he could be a backup or emergency tackle while starting at G. I don’t have any concerns about his skill set at G. Someone already mentioned here they don’t like moving guys from college (like Carman) that’s for every person to decide. I’d rather take the best OL and move him to G than take a lesser talent who played at the same position in college but wasn’t nearly as good as Kinnard. College to NFL o line jump is big for just about everyone with the way the games are played now. Everyone could use time. Kinnard will have time to be a backup if he isn’t ready day one but I think he’d give Carman a good competition for the starting spot day 1.

Bell- people are going soooo far overboard with his testing results and obviously have never seen him play. I view him as a guy you move around. He can absolutely play inside and outside. I could see him being moved around so much it’d be close to 50/50 split. He is a polished route runner but does lack that extra gear that would make him a sure fire 1st rounder.
If you’re concerned with his measurements go look at Cooper Kupp’s.

Jones- see previous reply

I don't have Kupp's snap distribution, but doesn't (or didn't) he play primarily in the slot?

As for Kinnard, I'm not sure I'd be able to go back far enough to Kent Lee Platte's tweets, but Kinnard was bad athletically even for an OG. Not just when comparing him to OTs. KLP is the creator of RAS for those that don't know. My nervousness is just about him fitting with what Pollack would look to run.

I've watched Bell, and I think he's slow. He is smooth though. I think he'll be an ok producer, maybe as solid WR3 or maybe WR2 caliber. 600-900 yard per season range. I'd be worried he'll never be a 1000 yard WR. He has a 2.72 RAS. I don't think Combine or Pro Day drills are the end-all, be-all, but man he really bombed it. Big concern.
You mention Kupp, but Kupp at least had good shuttle and 3-cone, which indicates he's able to shift well to get open despite not having long speed. Bell had an abysmal 3-cone and shuttle.
Bell - https://twitter.com/mathbomb/status/1499764540065697796
Kupp - https://twitter.com/mathbomb/status/1247880625656197121?lang=en

For the pass rusher, I'm not a fan of taking just a situational pass rusher that early. If Bengals could find a way to have him play off-ball LB on early downs and rush him on passing downs, I'd be more ok with that.

I'm not going to take a chance that a 5'8" CB is going to be able to play outside CB. I think he can be a good slot guy though.

[CJD]

(04-12-2022, 04:18 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: As far as the trade goes, trade value chart has it lopsided for Cincy giving up 600 pts but getting 660 back. Now I don’t think those charts are all that great but it gives you the ballpark. In 2018 Bal moved up 20 spots and basically only gave up a future 2nd rounder. Future picks are not as valuable as current year picks (would you rather have $100 today or $100 a year from now).

Well, we're comparing a 3rd today or a 2nd tomorrow. If you asked if I wanted 100 dollars today or 150 dollars next year, I probably take the 150. 

But my main point was trading with a division rival, you gotta get a huge deal, not just a good or fair deal. 

Quote:For Bell, there are more than just measurables that make up good WR’s. For instance, based on those numbers Tyler Boyd would be a completely “average” WR out of ALL WR’s tested. A ton of those never accomplished anything in the NFL including guys with much better numbers than Boyd. Then of the ones who actually have done anything I’d say Boyd would still probably be better than average of those guys. Bell’s tape speaks for itself, he’s an NFL WR. His numbers aren’t the best, but when combined with his tape they are more than good enough to be a starter at the next level.

There are exceptions to every rule, but for what it's worth, Tyler Boyd was ever so slightly above average. And Bell's biggest concerns are his 3 cone and shuttle, which Boyd bested him by a significant margin in both (while still being moderate or below average). 

I'm not saying Bell can't succeed in the NFL, just that the odds are stacked against him. I wouldn't mind taking a flier on him in the 6th or 7th round the way we did with Auden Tate (who was even worse, athletically, but was at least tall) but spending a mid 3rd round pick on him when you could probably get a safer player who could contribute more in year 1 is not something that I would do. Some may do it, but I wouldn't.

Quote:I agree on Jones, I didn’t want to reach at CB and he was a great value but not really what we are needing at the moment. That’s why I doubled up. If it played out like this I’d be looking to add Steven Nelson or someone similar in FA. I was also thinking Hilton’s contract was up next year but looks like we’ve got him locked up 3 more years. May flip him out.

Agreed. I would want to add a veteran if we couldn't nab a good corner in the first two rounds. And yea, Hilton's contract was very team friendly haha.

Quote:I also agree Bonitto is not the guy we usually take, but I’d argue he is exactly what we need at this point. We have DE depth. We lack pass rush depth outside of Hendrickson, Hubbard and hopefully Ossai. We need a guy who can wreak havoc as we have multiple “well rounded” guys back there who are mediocre at best getting after the QB

Bonitto would be an interesting pick. I think a situational pass rusher can really help a team, especially one that is right on the cusp. I just don't know if the Bengals do that haha.

[leonardfan40]

(04-12-2022, 05:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't have Kupp's snap distribution, but doesn't (or didn't) he play primarily in the slot?

As for Kinnard, I'm not sure I'd be able to go back far enough to Kent Lee Platte's tweets, but Kinnard was bad athletically even for an OG. Not just when comparing him to OTs. KLP is the creator of RAS for those that don't know. My nervousness is just about him fitting with what Pollack would look to run.

I've watched Bell, and I think he's slow. He is smooth though. I think he'll be an ok producer, maybe as solid WR3 or maybe WR2 caliber. 600-900 yard per season range. I'd be worried he'll never be a 1000 yard WR. He has a 2.72 RAS. I don't think Combine or Pro Day drills are the end-all, be-all, but man he really bombed it. Big concern.
You mention Kupp, but Kupp at least had good shuttle and 3-cone, which indicates he's able to shift well to get open despite not having long speed. Bell had an abysmal 3-cone and shuttle.
Bell - https://twitter.com/mathbomb/status/1499764540065697796
Kupp - https://twitter.com/mathbomb/status/1247880625656197121?lang=en

For the pass rusher, I'm not a fan of taking just a situational pass rusher that early. If Bengals could find a way to have him play off-ball LB on early downs and rush him on passing downs, I'd be more ok with that.

I'm not going to take a chance that a 5'8" CB is going to be able to play outside CB. I think he can be a good slot guy though.

Kupp started as a slot WR and has evolved into a more well rounder WR especially this year. He’s still his best in the slot but as his route running improved he’s been outside more often and to open up the best matchups. Last year he was almost 50/50 slot/outside (still got most of his yards in the slot).

And I’m not saying Bell is Kupp or anything, just pointing out that 40 time, vert/broad jumps, etc do not determine if a WR will be successful.
Kupp absolutely beats Bell in short area burst which is important, but Bell is a better route runner at this point than Kupp was coming out. Bell won’t do the same things Kupp does but he’s absolutely athletic enough to produce.

The point is, people are putting way too much stock in workout numbers. His weren’t good, but they were good enough to show he can compete at this level if he makes up for it in other aspects of his game. He absolutely has those aspects to his game. Writing him off based on pad-less workouts would not be wise. Used the right way he can absolutely be a very good starting WR in this league. His tape speaks for itself.

Look at his top college performances and matchups:
2020 Greg Newsome (Browns 1st rounder) 9 catches 78 yards in 4 of the other 5 games played that season (covid shortened) he had over 100 yards
2021 Denzel Burke (likely first rounder) 9 catches 76 yards vs Burke and 11 catches 103 yards overall that game.
2021 Iowa 240 yards
2021 MSU 217 yards
2019 Iowa 197 yards and had 100 yard games in 6/12 contests as a true freshman

Treylon Burks workout numbers are pretty comparable to Bell’s. Bell’s tape and production are better. Burks will still be a first rounder most likely while Bell will probably fall to round 3 or later. Acting like one can’t play while the other can is ridiculous but if it plays out that way some team will get a steal.

200 yard games against top ranked college teams are rare, multiple for one player is very rare. Putting up 76+ yards a matchup against first or likely first round CB’s is also a good sign.

You don’t have to agree with me, just getting my thoughts down for a later date.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-12-2022, 10:16 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Kupp started as a slot WR and has evolved into a more well rounder WR especially this year. He’s still his best in the slot but as his route running improved he’s been outside more often and to open up the best matchups. Last year he was almost 50/50 slot/outside (still got most of his yards in the slot).

And I’m not saying Bell is Kupp or anything, just pointing out that 40 time, vert/broad jumps, etc do not determine if a WR will be successful.
Kupp absolutely beats Bell in short area burst which is important, but Bell is a better route runner at this point than Kupp was coming out. Bell won’t do the same things Kupp does but he’s absolutely athletic enough to produce.

The point is, people are putting way too much stock in workout numbers. His weren’t good, but they were good enough to show he can compete at this level if he makes up for it in other aspects of his game. He absolutely has those aspects to his game. Writing him off based on pad-less workouts would not be wise. Used the right way he can absolutely be a very good starting WR in this league. His tape speaks for itself.

Look at his top college performances and matchups:
2020 Greg Newsome (Browns 1st rounder) 9 catches 78 yards in 4 of the other 5 games played that season (covid shortened) he had over 100 yards
2021 Denzel Burke (likely first rounder) 9 catches 76 yards vs Burke and 11 catches 103 yards overall that game.
2021 Iowa 240 yards
2021 MSU 217 yards
2019 Iowa 197 yards and had 100 yard games in 6/12 contests as a true freshman

Treylon Burks workout numbers are pretty comparable to Bell’s. Bell’s tape and production are better. Burks will still be a first rounder most likely while Bell will probably fall to round 3 or later. Acting like one can’t play while the other can is ridiculous but if it plays out that way some team will get a steal.

200 yard games against top ranked college teams are rare, multiple for one player is very rare. Putting up 76+ yards a matchup against first or likely first round CB’s is also a good sign.

You don’t have to agree with me, just getting my thoughts down for a later date.

I get your point.
I just have a hesitation when his testing was that bad.
Again, I think he'll still produce some, but I don't think he'll be a consistent 1000+ yard WR.
Maybe he will.
Let's see over the course of the next few years.

EDIT - One thing I forgot to comment on was your comparison between Burks and Bell.
Burks is about 13 lbs heavier than Bell, but he ran a 4.55 compared to Bell's 4.65.
That's a BIG difference.
Burks actually had a decent RAS - https://twitter.com/mathbomb/status/1499522923455033346?lang=en

Looking back, Bell's RAS actually matches up closely with former Bengal Auden Tate.
Tate:
40 - 4.68 (4.66 pro day)
10 - 1.64 (1.60 pro day)
vert - 31.0
broad - 904
shuttle - 4.58 (pro day)
3-cone - 7.37 (pro day)

Keep in mind, Tate was also 15 lbs heavier than Bell too.
Bell tested just slightly better than Tate, but very very close.

Again, combine/pro day results not fully indicative of performance in the NFL, but it can help show things that tape may not. Tape can mask certain things because of the competition they're going against. Someone playing opponents in the Big 10 and someone else playing opponents in the PAC 12 are going against different players and schemes.

My expectation of Bell going into the NFL is Mohamed Sanu. As a slot receiver in a solid passing offense, he'd put up between 500-900 yards. If Bell's speed and agility really are more indicative of his performance and similar to Sanu, this is about the production I would expect from Bell in the NFL. And that's not bad. Sanu was a 3rd rounder too, and he was a solid WR2/3.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

I like the Draft, but as others said I don't like trading with probably our biggest rival at this point in our own Division.

Like the picks a lot, but I think we need to take a Corner early more than exclusively a pass rusher unless it is someone
like Karlaftis, Boye or Ojabo at 31 who are exceptional talents that can grow into 3 down Ends. Love the Kinnard and David
Bell picks, same with Marcus Jones and of course Kolar who might be my favorite TE in this class.

Overall I like the Draft so I voted yes. I like Bonitto too, just don't like trading with the Ratbirds.

[Speedy Thomas]

You lost me at Baltimore.