Either/Or (CB)

[*bfine32*]

First 4 (Stingly, Sauce, McDuffie, Booth) are off the board. Mikey asks you to pick between the 2. Who you got:

KAAIR ELAM

KYLER GORDON

[SunsetBengal]

Elam, because you can't coach size and speed. Most of his "issues" seem to be habits and underdeveloped technique. All coachable fixes. He should earn plenty of reps as a rookie, and compete for starting role in year 2.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Gordon.

Though playing in the Pac-10 worries me a bit. Elam's tackling is suspect.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-13-2022, 12:00 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Gordon.

Though playing in the Pac-10 worries me a bit. Elam's tackling is suspect.

Tackling can be coached.

I voted Elam because I think he's better equipped to be "sticky" to receivers given his size, athleticism, and speed.
I do also like Gordon a lot though, but I think he's going to get beat more by the likes of faster receivers such as Diontae Johnson.
Gordon will definitely make a good amount of plays though and is a sound tackler.
I'd be perfectly ok if Gordon does get picked. I just prefer Elam.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-13-2022, 01:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Tackling can be coached.

I voted Elam because I think he's better equipped to be "sticky" to receivers given his size, athleticism, and speed.
I do also like Gordon a lot though, but I think he's going to get beat more by the likes of faster receivers such as Diontae Johnson.
Gordon will definitely make a good amount of plays though and is a sound tackler.
I'd be perfectly ok if Gordon does get picked. I just prefer Elam.

That's where I am, as well.  There is always an annual debate on weather the lesser gifted, but more polished player with a lower ceiling is more of an asset than a guy with superior physical attributes, but needs some development to master his craft.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-13-2022, 01:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's where I am, as well.  There is always an annual debate on weather the lesser gifted, but more polished player with a lower ceiling is more of an asset than a guy with superior physical attributes, but needs some development to master his craft.

And if there's one position on defense I have confidence in coaches, it's probably DB.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-13-2022, 01:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And if there's one position on defense I have confidence in coaches, it's probably DB.

Especially with the team's shift in focus to emphasis on Safety.  Having very good Safeties allows for young/developing CBs to see more action sooner, with less magnification of every little mistake.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-13-2022, 01:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Especially with the team's shift in focus to emphasis on Safety.  Having very good Safeties allows for young/developing CBs to see more action sooner, with less magnification of every little mistake.

I wouldn't be mad if a S were taken within the first two picks...unless the Bengals ended up retaining both Bates and Bell. Then it's be a very high draft pick for a multi-year backup.

[*Synric*]

I'm definitely a bigger fan of Kyler Gordon over Kaair Elam.

[*Go Cards*]

Probably lean Elam per speed, bloodline, and coming from tougher conference.

But it's not an easy call with him getting beat deep when facing NFL caliber WR's.

Yet hopefully that trait can be changed with NFL coaching.

[Speedy Thomas]

(04-13-2022, 01:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Tackling can be coached.

I voted Elam because I think he's better equipped to be "sticky" to receivers given his size, athleticism, and speed.
I do also like Gordon a lot though, but I think he's going to get beat more by the likes of faster receivers such as Diontae Johnson.
Gordon will definitely make a good amount of plays though and is a sound tackler.
I'd be perfectly ok if Gordon does get picked. I just prefer Elam.

Up to a point.

Assuming Elam has been taught technique, it comes down to willingness.  Some kids want to do it.  Some don't.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-13-2022, 01:50 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Up to a point.

Assuming Elam has been taught technique, it comes down to willingness.  Some kids want to do it.  Some don't.

Elam's definitely not afraid to hit, so it wouldn't be unwillingness for contact.
The only thing that would come into play with what you're talking about is wanting to hit instead of wrapping up.

[Gdale_Bengal]

I think I’m going with Gordon. But I do hope the Bengals can trade out of the first and still get him in the 2nd. I think he’s a better AFC north corner than Elam is, and Gordon has made more plays on the ball. But I’d be happy with either

[Mike M (the other one)]

Elam, I think his ceiling is much higher and he can be a force in year one.

[Yogo]

(04-13-2022, 01:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Tackling can be coached.

I voted Elam because I think he's better equipped to be "sticky" to receivers given his size, athleticism, and speed.
I do also like Gordon a lot though, but I think he's going to get beat more by the likes of faster receivers such as Diontae Johnson.
Gordon will definitely make a good amount of plays though and is a sound tackler.
I'd be perfectly ok if Gordon does get picked. I just prefer Elam.

Up to a point, look at what Lou did.  If you can't tackle, you wouldn't have been retained and we'll just get a FA that can.  He overhauled the defensive backs completely.  Jessie Bates really had to work on his tackling to be average in it.

[Yogo]

(04-13-2022, 11:45 AM)bfine32 Wrote: First 4 (Stingly, Sauce, McDuffie, Booth) are off the board. Mikey asks you to pick between the 2. Who you got:

KAAIR ELAM

KYLER GORDON

Yogo’s recent draft hopes in hindsight….

Year / What Yogo wanted / What Bengals got / Hindsight
 
2009 / Rey Maualuga and Andre Smith / Bengals miraculously get both! (HAPPY!) / Andre was good, Rey was eh.
2010 / Jermaine Gresham / Bengals got him! (HAPPY!) / Gresh was eh.
2011 / AJ Green and Andy Dalton / Bengals got both! (HAPPY!) / Very satisfied!
2012 / David DeCastro and Janoris Jenkins and Vontaze Burfict / Dre K and Zeitler, but getting Tez as a UDFA (PISSED then a little relieved!) / Should’ve hit a freakin’ homerun!!!
2013 / Tyler Eifert / Bengals got him! (HAPPY!) / If it wasn’t for injuries….
2014 / Aaron Donald (to pair with Geno) / Darqueze Dennard / Very satisfied since Donald was gone.
2015 / DJ Humphries, Andrus Peat, Ereck Flowers / Og and Fisher (Who?) / the start of inevitable long suffering.
2016 / Robert Nkemddiche and Andrew Billings / Got WJII (Ok) and stole Billings (YAY!) / Satisfactory
2017 / OJ Howard and Joe Mixon / John Ross and Joe Mixon (Not bad!) / Breaks even.
2018 / Frank Ragnow and Jessie bates / Billy Price and Jessie Bates / Could’ve been better.
2019 / Devin Bush Jr. / Jonah Williams (Ok) / Glad we took Jonah over Bush
2020 / Chase Young / Joe Burrow (SIGH) / Glad I was wrong!
2021 / Pinei Sewell  / Ja’Marr Chase (PISSED!) / Glad I was way wrong again!
2022 / Kaiir Elam, Kyler Gordon, Derek Stingly / ______________ / ___________________
 
It seems that the current drafting regime disagrees with me a lot and I am glad that I have been so way wrong and eat lots of crow.  With the way the trend has been going, I do not think we will get the DB’s I want.  So I do believe that we are gonna draft a DT or S.
 
How’s that for scientific method?

[*ochocincos*]

(04-13-2022, 05:32 PM)Yogo Wrote: Yogo’s recent draft hopes in hindsight….

Year / What Yogo wanted / What Bengals got / Hindsight
 
2009 / Rey Maualuga and Andre Smith / Bengals miraculously get both! (HAPPY!) / Andre was good, Rey was eh.
2010 / Jermaine Gresham / Bengals got him! (HAPPY!) / Gresh was eh.
2011 / AJ Green and Andy Dalton / Bengals got both! (HAPPY!) / Very satisfied!
2012 / David DeCastro and Janoris Jenkins and Vontaze Burfict / Dre K and Zeitler, but getting Tez as a UDFA (PISSED then a little relieved!) / Should’ve hit a freakin’ homerun!!!
2013 / Tyler Eifert / Bengals got him! (HAPPY!) / If it wasn’t for injuries….
2014 / Aaron Donald (to pair with Geno) / Darqueze Dennard / Very satisfied since Donald was gone.
2015 / DJ Humphries, Andrus Peat, Ereck Flowers / Og and Fisher (Who?) / the start of inevitable long suffering.
2016 / Robert Nkemddiche and Andrew Billings / Got WJII (Ok) and stole Billings (YAY!) / Satisfactory
2017 / OJ Howard and Joe Mixon / John Ross and Joe Mixon (Not bad!) / Breaks even.
2018 / Frank Ragnow and Jessie bates / Billy Price and Jessie Bates / Could’ve been better.
2019 / Devin Bush Jr. / Jonah Williams (Ok) / Glad we took Jonah over Bush
2020 / Chase Young / Joe Burrow (SIGH) / Glad I was wrong!
2021 / Pinei Sewell  / Ja’Marr Chase (PISSED!) / Glad I was way wrong again!
2022 / Kaiir Elam, Kyler Gordon, Derek Stingly / ______________ / ___________________
 
It seems that the current drafting regime disagrees with me a lot and I am glad that I have been so way wrong and eat lots of crow.  With the way the trend has been going, I do not think we will get the DB’s I want.  So I do believe that we are gonna draft a DT or S.
 
How’s that for scientific method?

Bengals didn't choose Williams over Bush. Bush went the pick before Williams.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-13-2022, 05:31 PM)Yogo Wrote: Up to a point, look at what Lou did.  If you can't tackle, you wouldn't have been retained and we'll just get a FA that can.  He overhauled the defensive backs completely.  Jessie Bates really had to work on his tackling to be average in it.

That might be why Bengals would potentially pass on Elam. If Anarumo wants guys who are good tacklers now and doesn't want to coach that up, that's his choice and I respect it.

[Yogo]

(04-13-2022, 06:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals didn't choose Williams over Bush. Bush went the pick before Williams.

Oh.  That's right!  Thanks!

[Speedy Thomas]

(04-13-2022, 06:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals didn't choose Williams over Bush. Bush went the pick before Williams.

After the draft the Bengals were adamant that they wanted Jonah all along.  Do we believe that?  Maybe.