Linderbaum

[Whatever]

(04-16-2022, 08:57 AM)samhain Wrote: I'd probably be fine drafting Linderbaum at 31.  He's a good fit value-wise there.  

As for what would bother me about it, well, it would basically mean they've lost faith in a guy they spent a second round pick on last season.  That hurts in terms of value and long-term team building.  It also continues the steak of them being abysmal at drafting linemen, which would make me question their evaluation of Linderbaum as well.  I want Carman to be a starter here if he's ready, and he allegedly lost about 50 pounds since the start of camp.  I'm just not sure he's earned anyone's trust yet, and even with the rebuild up front, it leaves a huge hole at LG if he busts in year 2.  I guess there's always Spain.

I like Linderbaum a lot as an athlete.  I get Billy Price vibes when I hear discussions about his arm length, but I don't think Billy was nearly as explosive out of his stance as Linderbaum.  

I suppose at the end of the day, it comes down to whether or not you think the huge athletic upside that Linderbaum possesses is enough to counter the fearsome DL he will face as a rookie in the AFC North.  Those guys are huge and they have plenty of league experience to throw at a physically overmatched rookie of that's the case.  I put a lot of stock in Tyler's experience in a wide zone at Iowa.  In the same vein, it shouldn't go by the wayside that OL from that program rarely disappoint at the pro level.  James Daniels was small coming out and we were all slobbering over him when he became a free agent after his rookie deal, so size isn't everything.  Guys from Ferentz's system have the technical ability to get by with non-elite size in some cases, and I think Linderbaum is a much better natural athlete than Daniels.  I'd just like a bit more in terms of physical measurables from a guy that's going to be protecting arguably the most important player in the history of this franchise in the prime of his career.  

In summary, I'm not ride or die with him, but I'm good with the pick if it happens.

Daniels is a decent comp, but he was 10 pounds heavier at the Combine and had 2-1/2" longer arms, so no arm length concerns.  He didn't test as well, but he also didn't take an extra month to train and hold a private Pro Day, either. Greg Zuerlein graded them both at 6.7.

Daniels got a lot of hype in FA largely due to his age, however he really hasn't evolved into that impressive of a player.  He has PFF scores of 68.4, 69.9, 65.8,  and 71.0 in his four years in the league.  Not bad, but not great.  Would you trade the #31 pick for Daniels?  No.  #63?  Maybe.  

[Savagehenry54]

(04-16-2022, 03:17 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I don’t know all of them, just Pace mostly. I’m not discrediting OSU but I feel like Iowa has produced more OL in recent memory than OSU, but Alabama has produced a ton of lineman in the past few years too. Idk.

But I know Linderbaum might not succeed in every blocking scheme, but he could very well be an all pro in Pollacks. If that’s how the Bengals feel then definitely pull that trigger. He’s a freak athlete and this team needs those.

Its volume.  Osu cranks out so many nfl guys their offensive lineman get over shadowed by the skill and edge guys where as Wisconsin and Iowa guys who go early are usually their olinemen.

This year its all about Wilson and Olave but LT petit frere is going early, maybe first round too.

[Savagehenry54]

(04-16-2022, 06:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For sure. Iowa, Bama, Wisconsin, Georgia, Penn State put out good OL.

Not saying OSU puts out terrible OL but they sure haven't been putting out good ones like these teams lately.

Tristan Whirfs has a bunch of pro bowls.  Very cool and all but the buckeyes have a ton of offensive lineman starting or on 53 man rosters throughout the league and there's never been a point in time this wasn't the case for many decades now.
Other than qb osu is a machine that produces so much nfl talent their olinemen get over looked but they're there, they always have been.
Ppl think other big ten schools who aren't factories like state have better linemen....no, its just that if Wisconsin puts a guy in the first round, its almost always an olinemen.
Which Hawkeye other than linderbaum coming out this year?  If petit frere was states only prospect you'd be more aware of him.  Wilson and Olave are the main buckeyes you're hearing about but Petit Frere might be going in the first round too.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-17-2022, 06:54 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Its volume. Osu cranks out so many nfl guys their offensive lineman get over shadowed by the skill and edge guys where as Wisconsin and Iowa guys who go early are usually their olinemen.

This year its all about Wilson and Olave but LT petit frere is going early, maybe first round too.

(04-17-2022, 07:08 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Tristan Whirfs has a bunch of pro bowls.  Very cool and all but the buckeyes have a ton of offensive lineman starting or on 53 man rosters throughout the league and there's never been a point in time this wasn't the case for many decades now.
Other than qb osu is a machine that produces so much nfl talent their olinemen get over looked but they're there, they always have been.
Ppl think other big ten schools who aren't factories like state have better linemen....no, its just that if Wisconsin puts a guy in the first round, its almost always an olinemen.
Which Hawkeye other than linderbaum coming out this year?  If petit frere was states only prospect you'd be more aware of him.  Wilson and Olave are the main buckeyes you're hearing about but Petit Frere might be going in the first round too.

And that’s exactly why I said they aren’t known for producing “TOP” offensive lineman in the NFL.

Which you’ve pretty much confirmed by arguing about “volume” and “quantity.” Not to mention bringing up an OT that was drafted in the 90’s.

[PDub80]

(04-17-2022, 06:54 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Its volume.  Osu cranks out so many nfl guys their offensive lineman get over shadowed by the skill and edge guys where as Wisconsin and Iowa guys who go early are usually their olinemen.

This year its all about Wilson and Olave but LT petit frere is going early, maybe first round too.

- What % of Ohio State O Linemen have turned out to be regular or quality starters in the NFL over the last 10 years? The last 2 the Bengals got were poop (Prince & Price). Not many. Even over the last 15 years, which is 5x the avg length of an NFL career, OSU hasn't been killing it w OL talent in the NFL. Draft picks, sure... good to great players? NO.

- The Iowa coach is an OL guru, has strong NFL experience, and personally coaches the Iowa O-linemen during practice. It's his main focus. So, it makes sense that Iowa OL guys get pushed in the draft or turn out solid.

- Historically, even recent history, shows that the majority of O-Linemen that are strong players with longevity... especially interior... are mid to late rounders. The Bengals have some really great OTs in the first round historically, but have stunk it up everywhere else along the line - regardless of school - for the last 20 years. The Bengals need to reevaluate their OL criteria, generally speaking.

[*bfine32*]

What quality QBs did LSU have in the NFL before Joe Burrow?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-17-2022, 12:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What quality QBs did LSU have in the NFL before Joe Burrow?

QB is a totally different animal. There aren’t really any schools you could call “QB U” like you can with other positions.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-17-2022, 12:43 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: QB is a totally different animal. There aren’t really any schools you could call “QB U” like you can with other positions.

Oklahoma has/had Sam Bradford, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray (Heisman #1 ) and Jalen Hurts. 3 current NFL starters

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-17-2022, 01:30 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Oklahoma has/had Sam Bradford, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray (Heisman #1 ) and Jalen Hurts. 3 current NFL starters

Baker is hardly a hot commodity at this point. To say the least. Jury is still out on Hurts, but I personally don’t think Philly is sold on him. Not exactly the most impressive list.

Again - when I think of a school that’s specifically known for producing certain positions (Iowa; OL, LSU/Alabama/Clemson; WR, OSU; DE, etc) I’m talking top players at said positions.

[WVUHomer]

(04-17-2022, 01:30 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Oklahoma has/had Sam Bradford, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray  (Heisman #1 ) and Jalen Hurts. 3 current NFL starters

Bradford made Eifert look durable.

Baker can't get a team to take on his contact (haha suck it Cleveland).

Murray is in a fight with his FO and can't win a PO game. Also talks that he falters down the stretch (as in starts hot cools off fast).

Hurts is a Running QB, on a running team and has a completion percentage less than 60% that his team is stockpiling picks in case he doesn't take the next step next year. Not really proving OU is good at developing QB talent, just picks.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2022, 01:30 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Oklahoma has/had Sam Bradford, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray  (Heisman #1 ) and Jalen Hurts. 3 current NFL starters

fine example; WTS, we'll see what happens without Lincoln Riely. He's now at what used to be QB-U

[Soonerpeace]

(04-17-2022, 03:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: fine example; WTS, we'll see what happens without Lincoln Riely. He's now at what used to be QB-U

He obviously was the draw for the recent players. But Oklahoma had 2 Heisman QB’s and one runner up under Stoops prior to Riley

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2022, 04:11 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: He obviously was the draw for the recent players. But Oklahoma had 2 Heisman QB’s and one runner up under Stoops prior to Riley

Oh, I'm not knocking the program

[Soonerpeace]

(04-17-2022, 04:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I'm not knocking the program

No but Riley leaving certainly will tell the tale

[Savagehenry54]

(04-17-2022, 11:17 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And that’s exactly why I said they aren’t known for producing “TOP” offensive lineman in the NFL.

Which you’ve pretty much confirmed by arguing about “volume” and “quantity.” Not to mention bringing up an OT that was drafted in the 90’s.

Semantics.  Laughable.  What you said was dumb bro.

[Savagehenry54]

(04-17-2022, 12:29 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - What % of Ohio State O Linemen have turned out to be regular or quality starters in the NFL over the last 10 years? The last 2 the Bengals got were poop (Prince & Price). Not many. Even over the last 15 years, which is 5x the avg length of an NFL career, OSU hasn't been killing it w OL talent in the NFL. Draft picks, sure... good to great players? NO.

- The Iowa coach is an OL guru, has strong NFL experience, and personally coaches the Iowa O-linemen during practice. It's his main focus. So, it makes sense that Iowa OL guys get pushed in the draft or turn out solid.

- Historically, even recent history, shows that the majority of O-Linemen that are strong players with longevity... especially interior... are mid to late rounders. The Bengals have some really great OTs in the first round historically, but have stunk it up everywhere else along the line - regardless of school - for the last 20 years. The Bengals need to reevaluate their OL criteria, generally speaking.

Im speaking to a general observation that dismissed osu as just being a krappy place to get an olineman from....its never been seen that way cuz its never been that way.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-15-2022, 09:48 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well we added some good pieces but no depth behind our starters besides what we already had that wasn't all that good. Plus one of those starters is a player who wasn't good enough to start last year. If one of those of those main guys are there at 31 they should take them. If they don't then they should be drafting one on day 2.

I wasn't saying that they shouldn't take an OL (I'm an OL guy..), I was just offering my opinion based upon what I observe from their offseason activity so far.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-18-2022, 08:13 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Semantics.  Laughable.  What you said was dumb bro.

Differentiating between top players at their positions and mere roster filler is not semantics. Bro.

What I said was accurate. Literally no one thinks about OSU when it comes to producing top OL talent in the modern NFL. Period.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-18-2022, 08:23 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Im speaking to a general observation that dismissed osu as just being a krappy place to get an olineman from....its never been seen that way cuz its never been that way.

Go back and reread my original post that sent you into this scarlet and gray tizzy. All I said was that Iowa is known for producing top OL players at the NFL level, unlike OSU. Never said OSU doesn’t have guys. Just that Iowa has some of the best. And I figured it was understood that I was taking about in recent years. I didn’t think people would be dragging up guys from the 90’s…

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-17-2022, 07:08 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Tristan Whirfs has a bunch of pro bowls.  Very cool and all but the buckeyes have a ton of offensive lineman starting or on 53 man rosters throughout the league and there's never been a point in time this wasn't the case for many decades now.
Other than qb osu is a machine that produces so much nfl talent their olinemen get over looked but they're there, they always have been.
Ppl think other big ten schools who aren't factories like state have better linemen....no, its just that if Wisconsin puts a guy in the first round, its almost always an olinemen.
Which Hawkeye other than linderbaum coming out this year?  If petit frere was states only prospect you'd be more aware of him.  Wilson and Olave are the main buckeyes you're hearing about but Petit Frere might be going in the first round too.

It is true that OSU puts out so many other good players at other positions that OL is a bit overlooked.

I like their DL they produce much more than their OL though. The Bosas and Hubbard for example are studs.

They also put out a lot of good WR's and Secondary players.