Why the **** is Jessie Bates not signed yet?

[George Cantstandya]

(07-10-2022, 05:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: NFL players get comped all the time on their home town.  That actually adds up to a big benefit.

And think how much more it would be worth to eat, drink, and socialize for free in all the hotspots of Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, etc compared to Cincinnati.

They also pay much higher state taxes in many of those places plus a much higher cost of living in those locations.  So the comps would probably not even come close to making up for it.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-09-2022, 11:40 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Sure he could get a team like the Jags to overpay for him on the open market. At the end of the day he makes more here because now that we should be perennial contenders he could make much more in endorsement money.

Does Bates like hotdogs?

[George Cantstandya]

(07-10-2022, 06:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Does Bates like hotdogs?

No Bengals player should ever sell themself out for an advertisement like that again.  

[GodFather]

(07-10-2022, 06:10 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: No Bengals player should ever sell themself out for an advertisement like that again.  

If you think thats bad you should've seen where they originally wanted to put the hot dog!  

[BFritz21]

(07-10-2022, 05:54 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: They also pay much higher state taxes in many of those places plus a much higher cost of living in those locations.  So the comps would probably not even come close to making up for it.

I'm wondering how much and where they get comped and how he knows that.

Is it all players?

Do they all get comped the same?

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-09-2022, 01:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So true. Bates is a great guy, I just think he got the wrong agent. 

It won't work trying to be demanding with THIS Front Office. They will pay you what you are worth, not much more and 
not at the expense of losing any of the other guys we have to pay.

Bates should know this, the agent should know this, but hey I am just glad we drafted Daxton Hill and Tycen Anderson.

They will just be getting more reps if Jessie doesn't show up and be more pro ready sooner.

This.  Can't stand his agent.  David Mulugheta.  Famous for getting ridiculous guaranteed money.  The Bengals hardly ever guarantee beyond two years of the contract.  Maybe in Au's post, the structure was more guaranteed as an olive branch.  Mulugheta is the guy that got Watson 230 million guaranteed.  Pretty much screwed the Bengals in that deal.  

Want more bad news?  (Sorry)  Mulugheta is also Tee Higgins agent.  Barf. 

Bates will play this year on the tag and will likely get tagged again.  Not a damn thing Mulugheta can do about it.  Bates makes probably $28.5 million over two years (which is probably less than the deal the Bengals are offering) but Mulugheta has his reputation to worry about.  Screw his client, the Bengals, and the league.  

You can bet the Bengals won't cave on this and hold all the cards, frankly.  If they have to, they can do the same thing to Higgins starting next year.  Bates will likely end up somewhere like the Seahawks as they rebuild and the Bengals will have one of the best lineups in the league. 

One other point about Higgins (that I sure as hell don't want to see happen), but a couple WRs got traded for first round picks rather than pay them top dollar this year.  I think that is a precedent that says that young WRs will be available in the draft and you can avoid that huge payday for more than one WR by trading Tee for a first rounder after this season.  I would hate it, but since Mulugheta is his agent, it is a real possibility.  

[*SHRacerX*]

I found a new podcast that I really liked this weekend called "The unofficial Bengals Podcast". The guy had a nice interview with Joe Danneman from Fox.

One thing he was mentioning as a potential solution (we probably won't like to hear) is that Bates could be traded to another team for what he feels could be a later first round or at worst a second round pick OR a third round pick and a player swap. The player trade has me intrigued. The Bengals have a lot of young, speedy talent in the secondary, but could use help at 3T or DE. I know we all have high hopes for Ossai, but if there is a guy that can help us there, that might help the overall team more than Bates being out there without a long term deal.

[WeezyBengal]

(07-11-2022, 08:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This.  Can't stand his agent.  David Mulugheta.  Famous for getting ridiculous guaranteed money.  The Bengals hardly ever guarantee beyond two years of the contract.  Maybe in Au's post, the structure was more guaranteed as an olive branch.  Mulugheta is the guy that got Watson 230 million guaranteed.  Pretty much screwed the Bengals in that deal.  

Want more bad news?  (Sorry)  Mulugheta is also Tee Higgins agent.  Barf. 

Bates will play this year on the tag and will likely get tagged again.  Not a damn thing Mulugheta can do about it.  Bates makes probably $28.5 million over two years (which is probably less than the deal the Bengals are offering) but Mulugheta has his reputation to worry about.  Screw his client, the Bengals, and the league.  

You can bet the Bengals won't cave on this and hold all the cards, frankly.  If they have to, they can do the same thing to Higgins starting next year.  Bates will likely end up somewhere like the Seahawks as they rebuild and the Bengals will have one of the best lineups in the league. 

One other point about Higgins (that I sure as hell don't want to see happen), but a couple WRs got traded for first round picks rather than pay them top dollar this year.  I think that is a precedent that says that young WRs will be available in the draft and you can avoid that huge payday for more than one WR by trading Tee for a first rounder after this season.  I would hate it, but since Mulugheta is his agent, it is a real possibility.  

I don't think the Bengals would tag Higgins. That would be giving him top 3 WR (average) money in the NFL and I'm not sure the Bengals would be super interested in doing that. I love Tee, but I'm not sure he's worth that. 

[Tony]

(07-11-2022, 08:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I found a new podcast that I really liked this weekend called "The unofficial Bengals Podcast".  The guy had a nice interview with Joe Danneman from Fox.  

One thing he was mentioning as a potential solution (we probably won't like to hear) is that Bates could be traded to another team for what he feels could be a later first round or at worst a second round pick OR a third round pick and a player swap.  The player trade has me intrigued.  The Bengals have a lot of young, speedy talent in the secondary, but could use help at 3T or DE.  I know we all have high hopes for Ossai, but if there is a guy that can help us there, that might help the overall team more than Bates being out there without a long term deal.

I don't think the Bengals can trade him under the tag. Unless they sign and trade him.. I've heard lots of reports he ca t be traded on the tag or maybe it is until he signs it...

[Whatever]

(07-11-2022, 11:19 AM)Tony Wrote: I don't think the Bengals can trade him under the tag. Unless they sign and trade him.. I've heard lots of reports he ca t be traded on the tag or maybe it is until he signs it...

Bates can't be traded at this point because he isn't under contract.  However, no team would trade for him without first having an extension in place, so a Bates trade would be a sign and trade.

[fredtoast]

(07-11-2022, 08:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Bates will play this year on the tag and will likely get tagged again.

If Bates plays a full season at his bets level then the Bengals may very well give him a long term deal instead of tagging him.

I have always been a big fan of Jessie, but even I was concerned when had admitted he did not play well early in the season because he was thinking of money.  I believe that the Bengals probably made him a reasonable offer for a long term deal, but I don't blame them for being a little leery of a guy whose game suffered because his feelings got hurt.  Most guys in the NFL perform BETTER when they are playing for a contract, not worse.

[ATOTR]

I do not think the Bengals should sign bates long term.

I believe the bengals think this as well - that is why they drafted 3 S/CBs in their top 5 picks this draft.


Teams like Cincy can not have top dollar position groups for Safety's. The bengals are going to have to pay close to league Max (As it realtes to other teams position group spending) on QB, WR and Probably Oline.

They have to prioritize where to spend money, and for a nice to have safety like Bates - I think they know it's not prudent to sign him for what he will command long term.

2023 is also filled with URFA S's - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2023/all/safety//


There is no way they drafted Hill, Taylor-Britt and Tycen Anderson to then go and give Bates 70Mill, 40 of that guaranteed.

[J24]

(07-11-2022, 08:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I found a new podcast that I really liked this weekend called "The unofficial Bengals Podcast".  The guy had a nice interview with Joe Danneman from Fox.  

One thing he was mentioning as a potential solution (we probably won't like to hear) is that Bates could be traded to another team for what he feels could be a later first round or at worst a second round pick OR a third round pick and a player swap.  The player trade has me intrigued.  The Bengals have a lot of young, speedy talent in the secondary, but could use help at 3T or DE.  I know we all have high hopes for Ossai, but if there is a guy that can help us there, that might help the overall team more than Bates being out there without a long term deal.

I asked Hobson this and he basically said no chance in hell they would trade him. That seems like the Bengals way to go.

If you're looking for a young 3T in a potential Bates Trade ; then both Dallas and Philadelphia makes a lot of sense. Osa Odighizuwa(Dallas) or Milton Williams(Philly)would look good in stripes.

[WeezyBengal]

(07-11-2022, 01:52 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I do not think the Bengals should sign bates long term.

I believe the bengals think this  as well - that is why they drafted 3 S/CBs in their top 5 picks this draft.


Teams like Cincy can not have top dollar position groups for Safety's.  The bengals are going to have to pay close to league Max (As it realtes to other teams position group spending) on QB, WR and Probably Oline.

They have to prioritize where to spend money, and for a nice to have safety like Bates - I think they know it's not prudent to sign him for what he will command long term.

2023 is also filled with URFA S's - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2023/all/safety//


There is no way they drafted Hill, Taylor-Britt and Tycen Anderson to then go and give Bates 70Mill, 40 of that guaranteed.

Gotta remember we are losing Bell after this season as well and Awuzie the next. Apple is on a one year deal too. So they needed to backfill in the secondary regardless. 

[J24]

(07-11-2022, 01:52 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I do not think the Bengals should sign bates long term.

I believe the bengals think this  as well - that is why they drafted 3 S/CBs in their top 5 picks this draft.


Teams can not have top dollar position groups for Safety's.  The bengals are going to have to pay close to league Max (As it realtes to other teams position group spending) on QB, WR and Probably Oline.

They have to prioritize where to spend money, and for a nice to have safety like Bates - I think they know it's not prudent to sign him for what he will command long term.

2023 is also filled with URFA S's - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2023/all/safety//


There is no way they drafted Hill, Taylor-Britt and Tycen Anderson to then go and give Bates 70Mill, 40 of that guaranteed.

1) Hill is more of a Nickle Back, Britt is a boundary CB, and Anderson is a Box Safety. None of those guys really fill Bates role as a single High deep Safety. in 2023 they could easily start Hill at NB, Britt at CB, Anderson at SS, and Bates at FS.

2.) Both Higgins and Chase will be worth #1 money. The FO isn't going to spend that 55 + Million at that position one.

[BFritz21]

I found this on CincyJungle, which mentions that, like I posted earlier, dozens of coaches, executives, scouts, and players rank Bates just outside of the top five:

Quote:Jessie Bates III has yet to sign his franchise tender, and when he does, he’ll be paid like one of the five best safeties in the NFL.

But according to dozens of league executives, coaches, scouts, and players, Bates is just outside of that top-five threshold.

In ESPN’s league-curated top-10 list of safeties, Bates secured the No. 6 spot, which is four higher than his No. 10 ranking in last year’s list. Players such as Minkah Fitzpatrick and Derwin James ended up ahead of the Cincinnati Bengals’ All-Pro centerfield defender.

Where Bates is almost universally praised as a rangy player, his ability in run defense knocked him lower in the rankings for some. That has been a characteristic of Bates for the duration of his four-year career, but the strengths of his game absolutely out-weigh the weaknesses.

I don't really care much about his abilities in run defense since this is a passing league and we'll face guys like Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert in the playoffs.

It goes on:

Quote:When it comes to last season, many point to a volatile season caused by the ongoing contract dispute he’s having with Bengals ownership. Even Bengals fans themselves found this to be a knock on the 25-year-old, but those in the league know there’s more nuance to it than meets the eye.

“That happens sometimes when a guy enters a contract year,” said an NFL personnel evaluator. “There’s a lot to process ... but as the season went on, he was excellent.”

Is sixth the right spot for Bates entering 2022? Let us know in the comments!

That bugs me because what's to say he won't half-ass the regular season again? Can we afford that?

I feel like this should help the Bengals because I'm guessing they're offering him somewhere in the 14 million per and that's what the rest of the league believes he's worth, but his agent's an asshole and I don't see the Bengals budging on guaranteed money past the first two years (assuming that's what the hold-up is).

[WeezyBengal]

(07-11-2022, 03:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I found this on CincyJungle, which mentions that, like I posted earlier, dozens of coaches, executives, scouts, and players rank Bates just outside of the top five:


I don't really care much about his abilities in run defense since this is a passing league and we'll face guys like Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert in the playoffs.

It goes on:


That bugs me because what's to say he won't half-ass the regular season again? Can we afford that?

I feel like this should help the Bengals because I'm guessing they're offering him somewhere in the 14 million per and that's what the rest of the league believes he's worth, but his agent's an asshole and I don't see the Bengals budging on guaranteed money past the first two years (assuming that's what the hold-up is).

Based on his off-season workouts/program - he won't half ass it. He'd be an idiot to half ass it knowing this is a contract year for him as well. 

I am not sure what was wrong with Bates for the majority of the year last year but I almost feel like he used the contract as an excuse for his poor performance rather than it actually having an effect on his play. He's the only one that really knows though. 

[*jason*]

(07-11-2022, 02:17 PM)J24 Wrote: 1) Hill is more of a Nickle Back, Britt is a boundary CB, and Anderson is a Box Safety. None of those guys really fill Bates role as a single High deep Safety. in 2023 they could easily start Hill at NB, Britt at CB, Anderson at SS, and Bates at FS.

2.) Both Higgins and Chase will be worth #1 money. The FO isn't going to spend that 55 + Million at that position one.

They don't have to pay Ja'Marr until 2026. Pay Tee now, pay Chase then. They could stagger it to where there really isn't any overlap, or a very short one, of their second contracts.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-11-2022, 09:22 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I don't think the Bengals would tag Higgins. That would be giving him top 3 WR (average) money in the NFL and I'm not sure the Bengals would be super interested in doing that. I love Tee, but I'm not sure he's worth that. 

The number would be calculated from the top 5 WRs and that would be around 28 million as of right now.  I agree, that is a lot, but say the Bengals are offering Tee $100 million over 4 years with $50 million guaranteed (not to argue his worth just yet) but his agent says he wants it all guaranteed....well, that isn't going to happen. 

So, they tag him for one season (assuming Bates is gone) and you still have him for one more year.

The way teams have been paying guys like AJ Brown $25 million per year, I think if Tee has a fully healthy season playing like how he finished last year, it isn't unrealistic.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-11-2022, 01:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Bates plays a full season at his bets level then the Bengals may very well give him a long term deal instead of tagging him.

I have always been a big fan of Jessie, but even I was concerned when had admitted he did not play well early in the season because he was thinking of money.  I believe that the Bengals probably made him a reasonable offer for a long term deal, but I don't blame them for being a little leery of a guy whose game suffered because his feelings got hurt.  Most guys in the NFL perform BETTER when they are playing for a contract, not worse.

Yeah, I get that.  The Bengals are one of the most loyal organizations, though.  There has been lots of evidence of that.  However, this conflict/saga seems more about an agent trying to single-handedly change the way NFL contracts are structured.  The Bengals are offering Bates a very good contract...history tells us that, but Bates and his agent think he is worth more and likely MUCH more guaranteed, for a guy coming off his worse season, statistically.  

I think Chido was MUCH more valuable last year and what is he being paid?  8 Million?  Hilton is getting $5 million?  Apple getting $4 million?  When you hear these top dollars for the top safeties, all I can think is how much I prefer having all three of these guys.