Why the **** is Jessie Bates not signed yet?

[fredtoast]

(07-29-2022, 05:56 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: If he skips TC. He will not be in football shape.  The injury risk escalates.  

Bates will not skip more than a week of TC.  

These guys keep in top shape all year round.  One week of hitting and he will be in game shape.

[Whatever]

(07-29-2022, 09:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: That was only for about the first half of the season or so.
Once he acknowledged the contract situation was a distraction, he changed his focus and played way better.
One should assume he learned from his mistake last year and will have the right focus this year.
If not, it could cost him $$ on his next contract.

In Weeks 1-9, Bates allowed a 100.52 Passer Rating when Targeted.  From Weeks 10-17, he allowed a 146.63 Passer Rating when Targeted.  His Completion % allowed went up slightly in Weeks 10-17 to 81.0% from 79.2% in Weeks 1-9.  His missed tackle % is about the only efficiency stat you could argue improved the second half of the year.  

There is no factual, statistical basis to support the idea that Bates played better the second half of the year.  In fact, data shows us the opposite.  It seems like an unfounded position someone threw out there this off-season when people arguing against Bates getting FT'd pointed out that he was only good in the playoffs and sucked in the regular season last year.  People just kind of bought it instead of really looking into it.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-29-2022, 06:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: In Weeks 1-9, Bates allowed a 100.52 Passer Rating when Targeted.  From Weeks 10-17, he allowed a 146.63 Passer Rating when Targeted.  His Completion % allowed went up slightly in Weeks 10-17 to 81.0% from 79.2% in Weeks 1-9.  His missed tackle % is about the only efficiency stat you could argue improved the second half of the year.  

There is no factual, statistical basis to support the idea that Bates played better the second half of the year.  In fact, data shows us the opposite.  It seems like an unfounded position someone threw out there this off-season when people arguing against Bates getting FT'd pointed out that he was only good in the playoffs and sucked in the regular season last year.  People just kind of bought it instead of really looking into it.

Hmm, I thought his stats were better in the 2nd half.
I do know he had 3 PDs in 2nd half compared to just 1 in 1st half.
Definitely his worst statistical regular season in his 4-year career.

[Whatever]

(07-30-2022, 02:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hmm, I thought his stats were better in the 2nd half.
I do know he had 3 PDs in 2nd half compared to just 1 in 1st half.
Definitely his worst statistical regular season in his 4-year career.

You're correct on his PD's.  He did have his lone pick the first half of the season, though.  He also allowed both of the TD's he was pegged for in the second half.  

[*pally*]

Chiefs Orlando Brown, is signing his franchise offer and is reporting to camp today. That leaves Jessie as the final holdout.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-29-2022, 06:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: In Weeks 1-9, Bates allowed a 100.52 Passer Rating when Targeted.  From Weeks 10-17, he allowed a 146.63 Passer Rating when Targeted.  His Completion % allowed went up slightly in Weeks 10-17 to 81.0% from 79.2% in Weeks 1-9.  His missed tackle % is about the only efficiency stat you could argue improved the second half of the year.  

There is no factual, statistical basis to support the idea that Bates played better the second half of the year.  In fact, data shows us the opposite.  It seems like an unfounded position someone threw out there this off-season when people arguing against Bates getting FT'd pointed out that he was only good in the playoffs and sucked in the regular season last year.  People just kind of bought it instead of really looking into it.

Unless you count the playoffs as the 2nd half of the year.

But...yes all the stats you posted point to him not being worth making a top 5-7 paid safety. He's inconsistent.

And that's probably one of the reasons why his camp wants so much guaranteed.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-29-2022, 06:01 PM)Stewy Wrote: On top of that it was the second tag for him, so he already banked some big pay.  No one has ever sat out the first tag, but some people still insist it is a possibility for Bates.

From this point, all a holdout does it preserve him from going through camp...as they can't negotiate.

[Whatever]

(08-01-2022, 10:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Unless you count the playoffs as the 2nd half of the year.

But...yes all the stats you posted point to him not being worth making a top 5-7 paid safety. He's inconsistent.

And that's probably one of the reasons why his camp wants so much guaranteed.

Barely.  If you combine Weeks 10-17 with the playoffs, you get a Passer Rating When Targeted of 98.59, which is marginally better than his 100.52 the first half of the season.  I don't have time to calculate 1st half vs 2nd half+playoffs, but his Missed Tackle % ballooned in the playoffs to 13% from 7.2% in the regular season.  

The guy is just wildly inconsistent, like you said.  If he wants a big number, a team would have to structure it to protect themselves, which means low guaranteed money.  If Bates wants more guaranteed, he needs to take a lower overall number.  

[THE PISTONS]

(08-01-2022, 12:36 PM)Whatever Wrote: Barely.  If you combine Weeks 10-17 with the playoffs, you get a Passer Rating When Targeted of 98.59, which is marginally better than his 100.52 the first half of the season.  I don't have time to calculate 1st half vs 2nd half+playoffs, but his Missed Tackle % ballooned in the playoffs to 13% from 7.2% in the regular season.  

The guy is just wildly inconsistent, like you said.  If he wants a big number, a team would have to structure it to protect themselves, which means low guaranteed money.  If Bates wants more guaranteed, he needs to take a lower overall number.  

Yes - But we both know that some team will give him the large contract he wants. Teams do it all the time. They pay for the outlier in performance rather than the average.

[*Synric*]

Orlando Brown Jr. is signing his franchise tag and reporting to camp. Roquan Smith is at camp and in meetings but not practicing because of a contract dispute. Finally David Ojabo is a rookie holdout for the Ravens although since Ojabo torn his ACL in March he might holdout all season and reenter the 2023 NFL draft.

Jessie Bates is now really the lone healthy holdout.

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2022, 01:39 PM)Synric Wrote: Orlando Brown Jr. is signing his franchise tag and reporting to camp. Roquan Smith is at camp and in meetings but not practicing because of a contract dispute. Finally David Ojabo is a rookie holdout for the Ravens although since Ojabo torn his ACL in March he might holdout all season and reenter the 2023 NFL draft.

Jessie Bates is now really the lone healthy holdout.

I'm getting to the point where I'm about to say screw it and hope we cut him.

I love him and I want him back but there's only so much we should put up with, especially with how he half-assed the regular season last year.

Hopefully, he doesn't do that again because he realizes another great postseason isn't guaranteed and that he might also get outplayed by Dax because that wouldn't look good to any other team he hopes to sign with long-term.

[*pally*]

(08-01-2022, 02:04 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm getting to the point where I'm about to say screw it and hope we cut him.

I love him and I want him back but there's only so much we should put up with, especially with how he half-assed the regular season last year.

Hopefully, he doesn't do that again because he realizes another great postseason isn't guaranteed and that he might also get outplayed by Dax because that wouldn't look good to any other team he hopes to sign with long-term.

He isn't under contract.  He can't be cut.

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2022, 02:08 PM)pally Wrote: He isn't under contract.  He can't be cut.

I know but I meant just rescind the offer and everything since he hasn't signed.

[Sled21]

(08-01-2022, 02:12 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I know but I meant just rescind the offer and everything since he hasn't signed.

Naw hell no... and let him just go to another team for nothing? Make him sit at home and earn nothing if he won't sign.

[fredtoast]

(08-02-2022, 08:39 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Naw hell no... and let him just go to another team for nothing? Make him sit at home and earn nothing if he won't sign.

I don't think we are allowed to rescind the offer, but if we did we would free up $13 million in cap space.

[BFritz21]

(08-02-2022, 08:39 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Naw hell no... and let him just go to another team for nothing? Make him sit at home and earn nothing if he won't sign.

If he does play, does he half-ass it and cost us games?

I just think we’re in a situation we can’t win because Bates’ agent is a dick, filled his head with bullshit, and played chicken with the wrong organization.

If he half-asses the regular season again, no team will give him anywhere near what we offered.

He’ll need to have an all-pro year to get what we offered somewhere else.

[TecmoBengals]

If the Bates situation becomes an increasingly unpleasant circumstance for the organization, I hope they trade him for whatever draft pick they can acquire. If Bates is all in, Taylor will recognize it and all is well. If not, ditch the dude. I'll trust the organization for how they'll proceed.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-02-2022, 09:32 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: If the Bates situation becomes an increasingly unpleasant circumstance for the organization, I hope they trade him for whatever draft pick they can acquire. If Bates is all in, Taylor will recognize it and all is well. If not, ditch the dude. I'll trust the organization for how they'll proceed.

Can’t trade a player not under contract. He’d have to sign the tag.

[TecmoBengals]

(08-02-2022, 09:44 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Can’t trade a player not under contract. He’d have to sign the tag.

Oops, I did not account for this. Thank you!

[Sled21]

(08-02-2022, 09:26 AM)BFritz21 Wrote:
If he does play, does he half-ass it and cost us games?

I just think we’re in a situation we can’t win because Bates’ agent is a dick, filled his head with bullshit, and played chicken with the wrong organization.

If he half-asses the regular season again, no team will give him anywhere near what we offered.

He’ll need to have an all-pro year to get what we offered somewhere else.

Not if he wants to sign someplace else next year.... that's the thing, if he's going to go for big money, especially guaranteed money, he has to ball out all season starting game one. Which is why we are not in a can't win scenaro, we are in a can't lose scenario. Screw his agent, he has to perform or retire or he will be playing for peanuts. And every year brings a whole new group of young safeties into the league looking to take his job.