What I would do with C. J. Uzomah

[Au165]

(11-11-2015, 04:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure exactly what you mean.  You have to go man-to-man at the line of scrimmage to have press coverage.

No team in the league plays cover-5 where every single player is in zone coverage.  Even in a cover-1 or cover-2 "zone coverages" most of the DBs are playing man coverage.

The DBs playing man-to-man in a zone scheme can play "off" or "press", but I don't know how you would play "press-zone".

Cover 2 Zone is one of the most common defenses in football, you can press the outside receivers as you have the flat and the safeties can pick them up over top. Below is a picture since you don't understand what zone defense is.



As for your understanding of what zone defense is....you don't understand it at all. Cover 5 isn't a thing at all, and never has been (at least under this made up name of yours). Cover two isn't referring to how many guys are in zone or man it is a reference to guys over top. There are tons of teams who play zone coverage where all players are in zone besides the lineman, in fact that is what a true zone play is! The plays where guys are in man and safeties are in zone over top are considered man plays not zone.

Fred, now you are embarrassing yourself because everything in your post is simply wrong. It is common for people to think the outside guys are in man all the time, even when in zone, but often time they just have deep third responsibility, so you see them running downfield with the WR.

[djs7685]

(11-11-2015, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Oaky, I am going to drop it here.  We can discuss it more if/when it happens.  If not then I will just consider myself another under appreciated genius.

Remember that they laughed at Einstein too when he first said the world was not flat.

I'll let history be my judge.

I just don't know how you could possibly cry if/when anybody calls you an idiot for posting stuff like this right here.

You're intentionally trolling to get a negative reaction.

GG.

[XenoMorph]

to get a better understanding how these types of plays work.. I suggest spending some time playing madden

[Au165]

(11-11-2015, 04:58 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: to get a better understanding how these types of plays work.. I suggest spending some time playing madden

What's funny about this is even my little brother understands what zone plays are better than Fred and that is just from playing Madden Ha.

[Au165]

By the way here is Jim O's response to Fred's dumb idea

"Ha!
No, C.J. Uzomah will not learn how to play press coverage just for an AFC title game matchup with Gronk. I would expect George Iloka to draw that assignment when the time comes, or if they decide to go with the 3-safety look, Iloka and Williams. Also, don't forget Lamur. His one strong suit, believe it or not, is press coverage. A converted safety, they could have him do that with Iloka over the top."

[djs7685]

(11-11-2015, 04:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: What's funny about this is even my little brother understands what zone plays are better than Fred and that is just from playing Madden Ha.

I honestly can't believe that Fred doesn't think a zone defense exists where everyone outside of the line is playing zone coverage. That's unreal.

A guy that proclaims himself as a genius with a billion posts on a football message board doesn't know that?

[Au165]

(11-11-2015, 05:01 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I honestly can't believe that Fred doesn't think a zone defense exists where everyone outside of the line is playing zone coverage. That's unreal.

A guy that proclaims himself as a genius with a billion posts on a football message board doesn't know that?

I think we now understand why he thinks you can convert a TE to cover the best TE in the game....because he has zero understanding of how defenses work. Seriously, where is Brad? This is like shooting fish in a barrel at this point! No one has everyone in zone at the same time? BWAHAHAHA

[XenoMorph]

I think what we should do is place him on the practice squad so our First rounder has some room

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2015, 04:52 PM)Au165 Wrote: Cover 2 Zone is one of the most common defenses in football, you can press the outside receivers as you have the flat and the safeties can pick them up over top. Below is a picture since you don't understand what zone defense is.



As for your understanding of what zone defense is....you don't understand it at all. Cover 5 isn't a thing at all, and never has been (at least under this made up name of yours). Cover two isn't referring to how many guys are in zone or man it is a reference to guys over top. There are tons of teams who play zone coverage where all players are in zone besides the lineman, in fact that is what a true zone play is! The plays where guys are in man and safeties are in zone over top are considered man plays not zone.

Fred, now you are embarrassing yourself because everything in your post is simply wrong. It is common for people to think the outside guys are in man all the time, even when in zone, but often time they just have deep third responsibility, so you see them running downfield with the WR.

It is not that simple.  If it were then every team would just line 3 receivers up on one side of the filed and someone would automatically be open.  Payers have zones, but they match up man-to-man based on where the receivers go.  And a defender does not just let a receiver go when he leaves the zone.

That is why you can open a hole by running a receiver through a zone and dragging the defender out of it.

I have played pass defense on a real field.  I don't need to do it on Madden.

[Au165]

(11-11-2015, 05:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not that simple.  If it were then every team would just line 3 receivers up on one side of the filed and someone would automatically be open.  Payers have zones, but they match up man-to-man based on where the receivers go.  And a defender does not just let a receiver go when he leaves the zone.

They align to the heavy side basically realigning their zone based on how they are lined up. Players don't always line up man to man, that is simply false.

Here is a zone versus a 3x1 setup





Often times an inside WR will be left uncovered when a team is running zone (sometimes they cover to make a QB think man), which is one of the ways you can tell it is zone. A defender does let a receiver go when they leave his zone, that is called passing him off to another zone, once again a very common technique.

Stop Fred, you are wrong and you are just digging yourself deeper. Go google what a zone defense and come back when you actually understand. Here let me help...

Understanding Man-to-Man Vs Zone Defense

There are two basic ways to structure a defense: 1) Man-to-Man and 2) Zone. The true difference between these defenses is Coverage, or how they protect against the pass.  In Man-to-Man, as the name suggests, the pass defenders are assigned to specific players.  But in Zone Coverage, the pass defenders cover a specific area or zone on the field.
- See more at: http://www.thecollegefootballgirl.com/football-terms/advanced/understanding-man-to-man-vs-zone-defense/#sthash.ZEKOOMEa.dpuf

[djs7685]

(11-11-2015, 05:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not that simple.  If it were then every team would just line 3 receivers up on one side of the filed and someone would automatically be open.  Payers have zones, but they match up man-to-man based on where the receivers go.  And a defender does not just let a receiver go when he leaves the zone.

That is why you can open a hole by running a receiver through a zone and dragging the defender out of it.

I have played pass defense on a real field.  I don't need to do it on Madden.

Your little stories about actually playing football must have been in your dreams.

Holy hell. I've never seen so much misinformation in my life from a supposed football "genius".

Yikes.

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2015, 05:12 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Your little stories about actually playing football must have been in your dreams.

Holy hell. I've never seen so much misinformation in my life from a supposed football "genius".

Yikes.

When I played each "zone" we still had a man assignment.  I played LB, not DB.  When I dropped into zone I still had a player I keyed based on the formation.  This was almost always a TE or a RB.  It could change if the offense lined up multiple WR to one side of the field.  So even though I was dropping into the same zone I had different reads.  The read would rotate based on the formation.

And if you watch a NFL defense backs play zone defense they still match up with a man and stick man-to-man.  I never played DB, but back when I played there was usually what was called a "one-high safety" which is what they would call cover-1 today.  Our other DBs would match up man-to-man based on how the offensive players lined up and ran thier routes.  They did not just sit in a zone and let their assignment go when he ran into another zone.   Our LBs would stay in zones, but the DBs stuck with their men.

Even in today's NFL the CB sticks with his man even when he runs into the deep zones.  The deep safeties in a cover 2 just provide help or pick up receivers running through the LB zones.  The CB does not just stop when the receiver enters the deep safety's zone.

[RoyleRedlegs]

This is an amazing thread. Just simply amazing.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

All I'm going to say is this:

Uzomah is considered a tremendous athlete, but not a superb FOOTBALL PLAYER, hence why he can't even see the field at his NATURAL position, TE. Nobody in their right mind can consider putting him at arguably the toughest position in football, the slot, then expect him not only to be able to be at least competent, but completely shut down arguably the best TE in NFL history.

Its ludicrous.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-11-2015, 05:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think we now understand why he thinks you can convert a TE to cover the best TE in the game....because he has zero understanding of how defenses work. Seriously, where is Brad? This is like shooting fish in a barrel at this point! No one has everyone in zone at the same time? BWAHAHAHA

He's trying to consistently run on a treadmill and get back to how he used to be.

[*bengalfan74*]

WOW !

[Au165]

(11-11-2015, 05:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When I played each "zone" we still had a man assignment.  I played LB, not DB.  When I dropped into zone I still had a player I keyed based on the formation.  This was almost always a TE or a RB.  It could change if the offense lined up multiple WR to one side of the field.  So even though I was dropping into the same zone I had different reads.  The read would rotate based on the formation.

And if you watch a NFL defense backs play zone defense they still match up with a man and stick man-to-man.  I never played DB, but back when I played there was usually what was called a "one-high safety" which is what they would call cover-1 today.  Our other DBs would match up man-to-man based on how the offensive players lined up and ran thier routes.  They did not just sit in a zone and let their assignment go when he ran into another zone.   Our LBs would stay in zones, but the DBs stuck with their men.

Even in today's NFL the CB sticks with his man even when he runs into the deep zones.  The deep safeties in a cover 2 just provide help or pick up receivers running through the LB zones.  The CB does not just stop when the receiver enters the deep safety's zone.

No...just no

[BoomerFan]

(11-11-2015, 01:22 PM)djs7685 Wrote: No, your position was that "Taylor Mays gave up X yards to Antonio Brown".....who he wasn't even covering.

He sure was part of the coverage for Brown and manned up with him on some plays. I watched the game, did you?


>  Oh, so you're just another one of the guys that thinks the coaches decision is the 100% correct one each time, gee, great.

I wouldn't go that far. 

> Here's a fun fact for you, more things factor into re-signing or signing a player than "is he better than our worst player on the roster??".

That's a level of nuance I wouldn't expect from someone who is super-hostile when someone else is posting their opinion. 

Regardless, Mays is pretty bad. In a league with ~128 safeties, I wouldn't put him in the top half for sure. 

[BFritz21]

(11-11-2015, 12:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: Where is Brad? This is the easiest lay up ever for him and he is nowhere to be found.

lol.  

I was staying away from this thread (actually, staying away from all Fred's posts, but this one was golden).

In due time, Fred will claim that he never even had this idea, then he'll post links to this thread and call you a liar, then, to top if off, when enough time has gone by, he'll claim he was joking and everyone except the people disagreeing were in on it (wonder how he knows what the entire board's opinion is on a particular subject, though.....  it's weird).

 However, since I'm here, I really do think it's an amazing idea.  Defenders have been training their entire lives to move laterally, backpedal, jam, read receivers' hips, trying not to bite on double moves, turn to run, look back at the right time, make a play on the ball from a defensive position (it's a lot harder than from the offensive side, trust me), and about thirty other things that go into being a defender, that I'm sure that CJ Uzomah could shut-down-Gronk completely, even though the best defenders in the game rarely can do it.

Somebody give Fred Marvin's cell phone number and we'll have the Patriots dominated!  Keep it on the dl, though, because I'm sure other teams have players that match-up similarly in size, and we don't want them learning the secret of shutting down Gronk!

(11-11-2015, 07:40 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: He's trying to consistently run on a treadmill and get back to how he used to be.

I'll never be like I used to be, but just trying to better myself.  

I actually was just running after I lifted earlier, which my left knee hurt and then my right knee was about to give way, so I stopped.

I'm hoping that it's just because this is the first time I've used them this much in this vigorous a way and that they'll be perfect again if I take a few days off (maybe even a week).

[Curtis85]

(11-11-2015, 05:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: They align to the heavy side basically realigning their zone based on how they are lined up. Players don't always line up man to man, that is simply false.
Understanding Man-to-Man Vs Zone Defense
- See more at: http://www.thecollegefootballgirl.com/football-terms/advanced/understanding-man-to-man-vs-zone-defense/#sthash.ZEKOOMEa.dpuf

You are correct. As a former Monster/Rover back frequently in zone. Where I lined up on D was based on offensive formations and alignment, weak or strong side. Not based on man coverage.