3rd Round-Zachary Carter-DT-Florida

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2022, 11:12 AM)kalibengal Wrote: I hope this guy isnt the "Drew Sample" of this draft...Ive some good and some bad stuff on him...time will tell.....but looking at the pick, he looks like a Cam Sample clone?? 

Cam Sample looked decent last year.  He played about 30% of the snaps on defense (310) and had 11 pressures (sacks+hurries+knock downs), 14 tackles, and 5 QB hits.

Not big numbers, but pretty good for a rookie 4th round pick.

I though Sample played some snaps inside at DT in the nickel package, but I could be wrong.  I know they talked about it, but I don't specifically remember seeing him at DT.

[Luvnit2]

(04-30-2022, 01:04 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The Bengals identified their needs and filled them very well in these first three rounds. I think they got extreme value with Hill in the first (he was being talked about as a top 15 to 20 player routinely). I think they got good value with CTB in the 2nd (He was being talked about right around where we picked him) and I am curious to see how Zach Carter works out. He is the most controversial pick so far because there does not seem to be a consensus about him. Some publications had him as a 3rd to 4th rounder (https://www.nfl.com/prospects/zach-carter/32004341-5278-6801-508d-115b8e175a05 https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Zachary-Carter-DL-Florida https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/zachary-carter/wyjwkbS5zA)

Others, like Dane Brugler and PFF, had him as a 6th round prospect.

It is worth noting, however, that Dane Brugler had him rated strictly as an edge defender. He did not put him in the IDL category. He wrote:


The way he talks about him, I can see why he would rate him as a 6th round player at edge. But some of his weaknesses (lacking flexibility to bend around the edge, below average production [presumably for a DE, as his production is outstanding for a DT], underdeveloped counters) seem to be alleviated by moving him inside and some of his strengths (transfers energy with his first two steps, quickness to fire off the ball, excellent motor and effort) all seem ideal for an interior pass rusher.

It's worth noting many of his weaknesses were also listed for Perrion Winfrey (body stiffness, below average Change of direction, struggles to break down in small spaces, underdeveloped pass rush counters, lacking pass rush instincts, poor tackle production) and their strengths are similar as well (length, powerful fast hands, good pass rush moves), but Winfrey was graded as a DT, not an edge. And he happens to have Winfrey as a 2nd round player, something we already know the NFL disagrees with.

One thing Dane mentions several times with Winfrey is that he was not overly impressed with the tape of Winfrey during college ("A two-year starter at Oklahoma, Winfrey lined up at nose guard in former defensive coordinator Alex Grinch’s 3-3-5 base scheme. It was tough to get an accurate read on him in the Sooners’ slanting front, however, his skills were unleashed at the Senior Bowl and allowed him to show scouts his flashes of dominance."), but was blown away by his performance at the Senior Bowl. So, you know, that may be the dividing line here. Because if there's one thing we've learned over the years, it's that the Senior Bowl creates hype for players that the NFL doesn't really carry over (you saw it with the Senior Bowl's darling, Jermaine Johnson, falling from where media reporters thought he'd go [top 10] to right where he was predicted to go prior to the Senior Bowl [late first - early second]).

Curious
Where did PFF and others rate
Willis
Dean
Ridder
Corrall
OT Raiman

[Stewy]

(04-30-2022, 12:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It has to be something more than just play on the field. Remember we had PW in for a Top 30 visit. I heard him being interviewed on Sirius radio and the dude sounded like he was baked. 

On top of that, reading Ben Baby's discussion on the pick which included a quote by Lou, this was exactly the guy they wanted.  Proven production rushing the passer on the inside.  BB's quote of Lou made him sound very excited about the pick, which makes me excited.  This was their guy.

[CJD]

(04-30-2022, 11:12 AM)kalibengal Wrote: I hope this guy isnt the "Drew Sample" of this draft...Ive some good and some bad stuff on him...time will tell.....but looking at the pick, he looks like a Cam Sample clone?? 

The good news is that he won't be the Drew Sample of this draft because Sample's issue was that he never produced in colllege but the coaches thought that he was maybe underutilized. Turns out he just wasn't that talented of a receiver.

Carter was productive in college (far more than just about any other 3T in this draft), he just has some questions about his size and athleticism combination. I'm not saying he'll be a good or bad player, but that, if he doesn't work out, it'll be for a different reason than Sample :)

[*bfine32*]

I wonder if this pick was influenced in any way by Balt taking the little Center

[CJD]

(04-30-2022, 12:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Curious
Where did PFF and others rate
Willis    30th overall
Dean    19th overall
Ridder 41st overall
Corrall 53rd overall
OT Raiman 18th overall 

 
I assume that you're asking not because you don't know, but rather to make a point. But I added their PFF rankings to your quote just so others reading will know.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-30-2022, 12:44 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote:  
I assume that you're asking not because you don't know, but rather to make a point. But I added their PFF rankings to your quote just so others reading will know.

PFF utilizes their grades the most when building their big board list.
Carter was categorized by them as an EDGE, and they think he's not good enough to be a full-time edge.
They think he's a tweener right now.
I think Anarumo wanted him because he wants to grow him into more of a 3T, which his skill set translates better to anyway.

[Stewy]

(04-30-2022, 12:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wonder if this pick was influenced in any way by Balt taking the little Center

I seriously doubt that. 

Here's how I see it.  They decide they'd like a 3T.  They have them ranked on their big board.  The pick comes up and the guy they want to fill that role is there, and he rates equal to or higher (on their board) then anyone else available at that slot.  The pick him.  Simple.

[Yogo]

(04-30-2022, 07:02 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Marion Hobby was more responsible in the success of the DL

Marion, Lou, Duke all contributed to what we had.

[Yogo]

(04-30-2022, 12:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wonder if this pick was influenced in any way by Balt taking the little Center

Can't wait to see that matchup.  At least his arms are 32+!

[kevin]

(04-30-2022, 05:28 AM)Yogo Wrote: How quickly we forget.  Lou took guys like Larry Ogunjobi and BJ Hill that are 6'3'' 305 lbs about and made them have career years.  Guys who were unnoticeable.  Lou has certain specs he's looking for that can make role players look stellar.  Zach Carter is almost the same, but lighter.  He seems to operate the same too.  May lightning strike thrice.

Funny you mention lightning.  All 3 picks so far have SPEED.   The Safety and CB are Fast for DB's.  The guy that can play either DT or DE is fast for a D Lineman.  Watch on YouTube how fast he is to the QB, or his SEC play scooping up a fumble and running 50 or 60 yards for a TD outrunning everybody.   The Great Defensive Coach who turned Tampa and Indy from losers into winners, Tony Dungy, when he came to Indy said the D was built too slow for the NFL, and he was going to bring in SPEED.   That is what Lou and Zac and Duke have done so far.   In these 3 picks, The Bengals Super Bowl Defense just got even Faster. 

Now I was hoping Devonte Wyatt from Georgia in Round One as a guy who can play DE and DT.  He went just before pick 31.  I had Daxton Hill on my list right behind him going into the draft.  Still, Bengals came back and got a guy that can play both DE and DT as BIG DADDY Wilkenson use to.  So great to have a guy that you can play at LE, RE or DT.   Injuries happen in football.  To have a BIG DADDY type is great. Wyatt was gone, we did get Florida Monster in THE ZACH ATTACK that was pretty dominate in The SEC.  I consider dominate in The SEC as no small thing.

So we got the fast safety, the fast cornerback, and the fast D Lineman.  FAST is the Key Word.  Plus the Safety can play Corner.  The Corner can play Safety. The D Lineman can play Right End, Left End or Defensive Tackle.  So we add VERSATILITY to SPEED.  All very important because injuries happen in football. 

Lets also not get hung up about Rounds. Joe Montana was drafted in the 3rd Round. Pro Bowl Bob Trump was drafted in the 12th Round. Ken Riley and Lemar Parrish in Rounds 6 and 7. So I'm not looking at Rounds. I see 3 good Fast and Versatile Players drafted who will add greatly to an already impressive Bengals Super Bowl Defense.

Anyone on here who doubts this pick, please go on YouTube for free and watch THE ZACH ATTACH highlights as he Dominates The SEC, and you will no longer have doubts about this pick. I was also amazed to see Florida D Linemen with numbers such as 8 and 17, I'm so use to numbers in 70's and 90's for D Line.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-30-2022, 01:01 PM)Yogo Wrote: Marion, Lou, Duke all contributed to what we had.

Yogo: How quickly we forget. Lou took guys like Larry Ogunjobi and BJ Hill that are 6'3'' 305 lbs about and made them have career years. Guys who were unnoticeable.

I was responding to what you said. Marion had more to do with the success of the DL than Lou. Lou recognized B J Hill was a budding star. Duke had very little to do with it. Duke is great at his job of organizing the scouting department and advising the Browns on salary cap etc. He’s great at organization and detail. But Zac is the best thing that’s happened to him. Zac knows talent and who/what types he wants. Lou is great like Zac. They all have it going right now. Zac instituted more position coaches involvement. Everybody is invested.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-30-2022, 01:07 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

The Cincinnati Bengals pick Florida Edge Zachary Carter at No. 95 overall.

SIXTEEN sacks since 2018 (5th among SEC Edges) ? pic.twitter.com/lPB98oL3v9

— PFF Draft (@PFF_College) April 30, 2022

He looks like more of a 3-tech than an Edge rusher too. Starting to love this pick as I just finished watching the Draft and 
didn't know much about Zachary Carter until Ochocincos had him in his Mock where he got the first 3 picks right. Was damn 
close to getting 4 in a row right too as Burgert was taken right in front of us.

Love the Volson pick, dude looks big, mean and smart like the other guys we added in Free Agency on the OL. Plays with an
edge for the few highlights they showed. Ticen Anderson was a surprise and we traded up for him but the dude has crazy 
length for a Safety and is really fast. Looks extremely talented. Jeffery Gunter looks like a perfect fit in our rotation and was 
surprised he was still around that late in the 7th. Could be a major steal.

Another great Draft, damn the D looks stacked and we added a depth piece at OL to compete with Carman at LG in Volson.

(04-30-2022, 03:10 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Well this pff guy was comparing him to Walker a few days ago.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-florida-zachary-carter-midround-steal-2022-nfl-draft

"At the pro day, Carter ran the 20-yard shuttle in 4.3 seconds. That figure would’ve ranked fourth-best among edge rushers at the combine and best among defensive tackles. For comparison, Walker, a potential first overall pick, ran a 4.32."






I liked his highlights. And this hot take
https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/67747/zachary-carter

"When his motor is running, Carter looks like an unstoppable force"

Thanks man. That is a crazy fast shuttle for a presumed DT...

(04-30-2022, 03:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Zachary Carter was drafted with pick 95 of round 3 in the 2022 draft class. He scored a 8.12 RAS out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 276 out of 1459 DT from 1987 to 2022. https://t.co/ISSiQ6wKqW #RAS #Bengals pic.twitter.com/kDuZdwbe9K

— Kent Lee Platte (@MathBomb) April 30, 2022

4 less reps on the bench than Ja’Marr?

Wonder how long Carter's arms are. Need to be strong to play 3-tech.

[Yogo]

(04-30-2022, 01:05 PM)kevin Wrote: Funny you mention lightning.  All 3 picks so far have SPEED.   The Safety and CB are Fast for DB's.  The guy that can play either DT or DE is fast for a D Lineman.  Watch on YouTube how fast he is to the QB, or his SEC play scooping up a fumble and running 50 or 60 yards for a TD outrunning everybody.   The Great Defensive Coach who turned Tampa and Indy from losers into winners, Tony Dungy, when he came to Indy said the D was built too slow for the NFL, and he was going to bring in SPEED.   That is what Lou and Zac and Duke have done so far.   In these 3 picks, The Bengals Super Bowl Defense just got even Faster. 

Now I was hoping Devonte Wyatt from Georgia in Round One as a guy who can play DE and DT.  He went just before pick 31.  I had Daxton Hill on my list right behind him going into the draft.  Still, Bengals came back and got a guy that can play both DE and DT as BIG DADDY Wilkenson use to.  So great to have a guy that you can play at LE, RE or DT.   Injuries happen in football.  To have a BIG DADDY type is great. Wyatt was gone, we did get Florida Monster in THE ZACH ATTACK that was pretty dominate in The SEC.  I consider dominate in The SEC as no small thing.

So we got the fast safety, the fast cornerback, and the fast D Lineman.  FAST is the Key Word.  Plus the Safety can play Corner.  The Corner can play Safety. The D Lineman can play Right End, Left End or Defensive Tackle.  So we add VERSATILITY to SPEED.  All very important because injuries happen in football. 

Lets also not get hung up about Rounds.  Joe Montana was drafted in the 3rd Round. Pro Bowl Bob Trump was drafted in the 12th Round. Ken Riley and Lemar Parrish in Rounds 6 and 7.   So I'm not looking at Rounds.  I see 3 good Fast and Versatile Players drafted who will add greatly to an already impressive Bengals Super Bowl Defense.

Anyone on here who doubts this pick, please go on YouTube for free and watch THE ZACH ATTACH highlights as he Dominates The SEC, and you will no longer have doubts about this pick.  I was also amazed to see Florida D Linemen with numbers such as 8 and 17, I'm so use to numbers in 70's and 90's for D Line.

That's the same thing the great Jimmy Johnson said about the Dallas Cowboys that he inherited.  Too slow!  Then went ahead with a major facelift.

[Yogo]

(04-30-2022, 01:23 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Yogo: How quickly we forget. Lou took guys like Larry Ogunjobi and BJ Hill that are 6'3'' 305 lbs about and made them have career years. Guys who were unnoticeable.

I was responding to what you said. Marion had more to do with the success of the DL than Lou. Lou recognized B J Hill was a budding star. Duke had very little to do with it. Duke is great at his job of organizing the scouting department and advising the Browns on salary cap etc. He’s great at organization and detail. But Zac is the best thing that’s happened to him. Zac knows talent and who/what types he wants. Lou is great like Zac. They all have it going right now. Zac instituted more position coaches involvement. Everybody is invested.

I agree with you that Marion's coaching of technique is important, but also Lou's scheme, and Duke's personal, contract, trade, roster decisions.  All played a key part.

[Stewy]

There was alot of speculation in this thread about whether Carter will be a DE or 3T DT, and even though we are likely all on the same page now, I thought it would be worth mentioning a couple things that are now facts vs. draft night speculations.

Having recently watched Duke's post draft interview podcast, they drafted him not as a DE, but as a 3T. He'll be in the rotation from the beginning. Things they liked: Relentless, hard worker, mean, fast, tireless and productive.

Oh and as with all draft picks, Duke said they have a plan for Carter, but he has to do the work to earn his place.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-30-2022, 08:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Wonder how long Carter's arms are. Need to be strong to play 3-tech.

It says it in the RAS that you listed. 33.5" arm length

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-06-2022, 01:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It says it in the RAS that you listed. 33.5" arm length

Cool, I didn't click on it, those aren't crazy short arms, might have something to do with the poor bench press numbers...

When you have longer arms it limits your bench press at times.

Seems like both Carter and Gunter need to get in the weight room.

Go in there with D'Ante Smith who looks like a mad man in there.