Why Do You Like This Draft!

[Yogo]

I think from this draft, I now have a fetish for long arms.

[OSUfan]

(05-04-2022, 09:12 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Again I'm not the OP. But as someone that also wasn't the biggest fan of the draft. It wasn't necessarily the players. We needed depth in the secondary and needed players that could cause turnovers and I certainly think we got that in Dax and CTB. I just would've like to increase picks instead of shedding them. I know we like our starters for the most part but we can all agree I think that we got lucky health wise last year. So spreading out the depth a bit more would've been what I wanted. I know we're talking about late picks but we could've gotten a LB, a DT that fit more of the true 3T mold, a 4th WR with returning experience or double dipped on the Oline with someone like Lecitus Smith or someone like that with LG experience. The draft is over and I'm fine with it. My thought before the draft was that the Bengals had enough money to sign a player or two but why not wait until after the draft so you know where you need those players. So we'll wait and see I hope the Bengals continue to add hopefully to the OL. But I am still worried about LB just with depth and worried we won't get so lucky with injuries again.

So you are advocating quantity over quality? I don't agree. I believe they choices they made demonstrated excellent value relative to player available and needs of the roster.

I believe you are trying to split hairs to make your argument relative. What attributes are you looking for in your "LG" assessment? I have already demonstrated the O line and the depth of the line and the numbers involved which already put us over the number of players kept on the 53 man roster for the O line. So what is it that you would have done with more O line selections? My breakdown did not even include Adeniji who I felt was the weakest link last season.

What is your "true" 3T mold? Just curious as the best 3T in the league is 6'1" 280 and Carter comes in at 6'4" 282. 32% of his collegiate snaps came inside so he is not a stranger to role. Cam Sample is another guy that takes snaps inside and not to mention that Hubbard in college and at the NFL level has shown the ability to rush from the inside on passing downs. There are also Hubert and Spence that could be cogs in a 3T rotation situationally. I personally felt the selection of Carter was outstanding for this role.

You have a concern with a WR with return experience and I offer you Jaivon Heiligh and Kwamie Lassiter as well as Trent Taylor, Pooka Williams, and our RB Chris Evans. I don't share this same concern I guess. 

LB? The first thing I factor into this position is that overwhelmingly we line up in a Nickel configuration with only 2 LBs on the field. Then I consider what we currently have there and the group is young and pretty damn skilled:


Logan Wilson
Germaine Pratt
Marcus Bailey
Akeem Davis-Gaither
Joe Bachie (who really stepped up in a backup role last season)

We also acquired Clay Johnston and Keandre Jones has been on the practice squad. We also added Clarence Hicks and Carson Wells.

I believe we have more depth that is being credited and it is great to see the Bengals in a position to add quality over quantity.

Just my take on it.

[MileHighGrowler]

I loved this draft because it shows how the team has improved. It's improved to the point that this team can finally draft for depth. How many years have we wanted that to be the case? When the upcoming season didn't ride on the success of the first pick? They filled spots for depth needed. Were there some spots they didn't get depth (TE, P, OL)? Sure. But I think you've got to be happy with where the team sits right now and what that meant for draft approach.

They drafted like a team that didn't have gaping holes, wasn't rebuilding, and has a solid core. That makes me happier than any individual player they drafted (though I'm pretty intrigued by several of them).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-04-2022, 07:29 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Sorry but your post is silliness. We needed depth most of all in the defensive backfield and especially in the form of covering TEs and RBs. We go that and did it in spades. This defensive backfield can be ran out with multiple different looks now that can be run with the same personnel groupings. 

TE was already addressed with the signing of Hayden Hurst, whom I personally think will be a real asset to this offense, not to mention that we still have Drew Sample and Moss. I am intrigued with Scotty Washington myself and would really like to see him push for playing time given his receiving skills. He is up to almost 250 pounds of what appears to be solid weight.

LT -  Jonah Williams/D' Ante Smith
LG - Carman/Volson/
C - Ted Karras/Trey Hill
RG - Alex Cappa/Volson
RT - Lael Collins/Prince/Carman

That is without even accounting for them bringing in Ben Brown from Ole Miss. You act as if the offensive line has not been addressed at all since the end of the season. That clearly is not the case.

The team has improved dramatically since the end of the season and they were already the best in the division so your argument that everyone else in the division got better but we did not is not accurate at all.

I like this draft because they added quality pieces to enhance the direction we have been headed that will be clear insurance policies should we lose some FAs after the season. We added another solid piece at the 3 technique to back up Hill as well as another piece that can rotate in on the edge.

We needed help at CB and got it with Taylor-Britt, whom I believe will push Apple strongly for playing time. Daxson has the coverage skill of a corner so he is certainly a piece that could figure in the mix if necessary. 

Bengals fans need to get used to picking low in the draft because this is a new era!

Completely agree with all of this OSUfan. It is a new era and we went after the quality guys our FO and coaches wanted.

People can argue about the player if they don't like them or like another player better all they want but that doesn't make the
Draft a bad one until we see these players suit up. The Free Agency is where we attacked our biggest needs and upgraded big
time on our biggest weakness.

We aren't going to have flashy splash picks as long as we keep these types of Offseasons up cause we will be picking in the 
late 20's and the 30's often.

(05-04-2022, 09:12 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Again I'm not the OP. But as someone that also wasn't the biggest fan of the draft. It wasn't necessarily the players. We needed depth in the secondary and needed players that could cause turnovers and I certainly think we got that in Dax and CTB. I just would've like to increase picks instead of shedding them. I know we like our starters for the most part but we can all agree I think that we got lucky health wise last year. So spreading out the depth a bit more would've been what I wanted. I know we're talking about late picks but we could've gotten a LB, a DT that fit more of the true 3T mold, a 4th WR with returning experience or double dipped on the Oline with someone like Lecitus Smith or someone like that with LG experience. The draft is over and I'm fine with it. My thought before the draft was that the Bengals had enough money to sign a player or two but why not wait until after the draft so you know where you need those players. So we'll wait and see I hope the Bengals continue to add hopefully to the OL. But I am still worried about LB just with depth and worried we won't get so lucky with injuries again.

I guess I can understand some not liking us trading up for Tycen Anderson cause he is a talented project but trading up 
for Cameron Taylor Britt was a great move. He wouldn't be a Bengal I am sure of it if we didn't trade up for him and he 
was by far the best outside Corner available that late in the 2nd.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-05-2022, 11:16 AM)OSUfan Wrote: So you are advocating quantity over quality? I don't agree. I believe they choices they made demonstrated excellent value relative to player available and needs of the roster.

I believe you are trying to split hairs to make your argument relative. What attributes are you looking for in your "LG" assessment? I have already demonstrated the O line and the depth of the line and the numbers involved which already put us over the number of players kept on the 53 man roster for the O line. So what is it that you would have done with more O line selections? My breakdown did not even include Adeniji who I felt was the weakest link last season.

What is your "true" 3T mold? Just curious as the best 3T in the league is 6'1" 280 and Carter comes in at 6'4" 282. 32% of his collegiate snaps came inside so he is not a stranger to role. Cam Sample is another guy that takes snaps inside and not to mention that Hubbard in college and at the NFL level has shown the ability to rush from the inside on passing downs. There are also Hubert and Spence that could be cogs in a 3T rotation situationally. I personally felt the selection of Carter was outstanding for this role.

You have a concern with a WR with return experience and I offer you Jaivon Heiligh and Kwamie Lassiter as well as Trent Taylor, Pooka Williams, and our RB Chris Evans. I don't share this same concern I guess. 

LB? The first thing I factor into this position is that overwhelmingly we line up in a Nickel configuration with only 2 LBs on the field. Then I consider what we currently have there and the group is young and pretty damn skilled:


Logan Wilson
Germaine Pratt
Marcus Bailey
Akeem Davis-Gaither
Joe Bachie (who really stepped up in a backup role last season)

We also acquired Clay Johnston and Keandre Jones has been on the practice squad. We also added Clarence Hicks and Carson Wells.

I believe we have more depth that is being credited and it is great to see the Bengals in a position to add quality over quantity.

Just my take on it.

A lot of the guys you mention that I've bolded above haven't really done anything on defense in the NFL yet.
Sample - 14 games, 1.5 sacks, 1 TFL, 5 hits, 14 tackles
Spence - Hasn't done really anything since his rookie year with Tampa in 2016
Hubert - Was out all year
ADG - 25 games with only 1 INT, 6 PDs, 59 tackles
Bailey - 27 games with only 4 PDs, 39 tackles
Jones - 4 tackles in 7 games
Johnston - 15 games, 28 tackles, 1 FF
Bachie - 13 games, 32 tackles, 1 PD

So while some may say there's a lot of young, unproven talent for depth, some others may look at the lack of production from these depth guys and doubt their abilities in the NFL until they show production on the field.
Also, these guys are all Day 3 picks, UDFAs, or castoffs from teams. There's not usually a lot of optimism for players the later they are drafted.

[Hammerstripes]

People are sleeping on Dax a little bit. I don't think most people realize that he has legit CB skills as well. He's going to see a ton of playing time. The Bengals like to use a ton of DBs in their passing packages. He's a very good pick and was easily the BPA when we drafted.

I said it in another post, but we were 1 injury away last year in the secondary from being very vulnerable. We've been signing street free agents to 1 year deals to provide depth. For the most part it's worked out, but we needed to add a ton of youth and athleticism to that group - and we did.

My only minor complaint is Carter and Volson. However, I think once Carter focuses on 3T he may be a much better player than his tape at Florida showed. Volson, I didn't have him on the radar at all - and none of my draft guides that I read even included him. Oh well, maybe he can surprise us.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-05-2022, 12:38 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: People are sleeping on Dax a little bit.  I don't think most people realize that he has legit CB skills as well.  He's going to see a ton of playing time.  The Bengals like to use a ton of DBs in their passing packages.  He's a very good pick and was easily the BPA when we drafted.

I said it in another post, but we were 1 injury away last year in the secondary from being very vulnerable.  We've been signing street free agents to 1 year deals to provide depth.  For the most part it's worked out, but we needed to add a ton of youth and athleticism to that group - and we did.

My only minor complaint is Carter and Volson.  However, I think once Carter focuses on 3T he may be a much better player than his tape at Florida showed.  Volson, I didn't have him on the radar at all - and none of my draft guides that I read even included him.  Oh well, maybe he can surprise us.

I was guilty of sleeping on Daxton Hill before we drafted him as I had my favorite in Jaquan Brisker who I watched play a lot 
last year but Dax is much more versatile and is a much better tackler than Brisker. After we drafted Dax and I started watching 
tape I fell in love with the pick, he can play outside Corner with his speed, Slot Corner with his quicks and tackling and either 
Safety spot right off the bat.

Carter I can understand a complaint on as he needs some work to become a true 3-tech and there were other already true
3-tech's on the board at the time like Perrion Winfrey who I wanted. Problem with Winfrey though is he is not a good run 
stopper and can get washed out of plays. We will see who will be the best pick in our Division.

Volson might be my favorite sleeper pick in the Draft, small school and all. Love this pick, dude plays mean, physical, with 
size and strength. Glass Eater just like Pollack said he wanted here. If Carman's back is in anyway a problem either Volson or
D'Ante Smith could start at LG and both could play well and it wouldn't surprise me. Really high on both these guys.

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-05-2022, 11:16 AM)OSUfan Wrote: So you are advocating quantity over quality? I don't agree. I believe they choices they made demonstrated excellent value relative to player available and needs of the roster.

I believe you are trying to split hairs to make your argument relative. What attributes are you looking for in your "LG" assessment? I have already demonstrated the O line and the depth of the line and the numbers involved which already put us over the number of players kept on the 53 man roster for the O line. So what is it that you would have done with more O line selections? My breakdown did not even include Adeniji who I felt was the weakest link last season.

What is your "true" 3T mold? Just curious as the best 3T in the league is 6'1" 280 and Carter comes in at 6'4" 282. 32% of his collegiate snaps came inside so he is not a stranger to role. Cam Sample is another guy that takes snaps inside and not to mention that Hubbard in college and at the NFL level has shown the ability to rush from the inside on passing downs. There are also Hubert and Spence that could be cogs in a 3T rotation situationally. I personally felt the selection of Carter was outstanding for this role.

You have a concern with a WR with return experience and I offer you Jaivon Heiligh and Kwamie Lassiter as well as Trent Taylor, Pooka Williams, and our RB Chris Evans. I don't share this same concern I guess. 

LB? The first thing I factor into this position is that overwhelmingly we line up in a Nickel configuration with only 2 LBs on the field. Then I consider what we currently have there and the group is young and pretty damn skilled:


Logan Wilson
Germaine Pratt
Marcus Bailey
Akeem Davis-Gaither
Joe Bachie (who really stepped up in a backup role last season)

We also acquired Clay Johnston and Keandre Jones has been on the practice squad. We also added Clarence Hicks and Carson Wells.

I believe we have more depth that is being credited and it is great to see the Bengals in a position to add quality over quantity.

Just my take on it.

No not quality over quantity. I think that's become the Bengals draft strategy and find a position of weakness and just throw a bunch of draft picks at it and see what works. My suggestion was adding depth at multiple spots not putting all your eggs into 1 basket if you will. I didn't mean I dislike Carter just adding a DT with a little more of the body type later was 1 one of the options we could've added as well. Two of the better LB's on your list are coming back from injury and the 2 UDFA linebackers you mentioned aren't off the ball linebackers. 

[fredtoast]

Saw Bucky Brooks talking about our draft and he made a great point.

Bengals had a lot of success dropping 7 or even 8 in zone coverage and just rushing 3 or 4, but Brooks said the Bengals don't want to be forced to play that way. And if they want to blitz more and play more "pressure" defense that usually means playing more man-to-man coverage. So the Bengals had to bring in more cover guys. That way they can mix it up.

I know a lot of fans don't want to admit it, but the Chiefs second half meltdown in the playoffs had a lot more to do with Mahommes playing poorly than our amazing defensive scheme. I saw Kurt Warner break down the film and there were open receivers and running lanes that Mahommes just ignored or failed to see. Our defense played great that second half. I don't want to take away all the credit they deserve, but I guarantee we won't be able to shut down Mahommes with that simple of a scheme next time.

[Vas Deferens]

(05-04-2022, 07:29 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Sorry but your post is silliness. We needed depth most of all in the defensive backfield and especially in the form of covering TEs and RBs. We go that and did it in spades. This defensive backfield can be ran out with multiple different looks now that can be run with the same personnel groupings. 

TE was already addressed with the signing of Hayden Hurst, whom I personally think will be a real asset to this offense, not to mention that we still have Drew Sample and Moss. I am intrigued with Scotty Washington myself and would really like to see him push for playing time given his receiving skills. He is up to almost 250 pounds of what appears to be solid weight.

LT -  Jonah Williams/D' Ante Smith
LG - Carman/Volson/
C - Ted Karras/Trey Hill
RG - Alex Cappa/Volson
RT - Lael Collins/Prince/Carman

That is without even accounting for them bringing in Ben Brown from Ole Miss. You act as if the offensive line has not been addressed at all since the end of the season. That clearly is not the case.

The team has improved dramatically since the end of the season and they were already the best in the division so your argument that everyone else in the division got better but we did not is not accurate at all.

I like this draft because they added quality pieces to enhance the direction we have been headed that will be clear insurance policies should we lose some FAs after the season. We added another solid piece at the 3 technique to back up Hill as well as another piece that can rotate in on the edge.

We needed help at CB and got it with Taylor-Britt, whom I believe will push Apple strongly for playing time. Daxson has the coverage skill of a corner so he is certainly a piece that could figure in the mix if necessary. 

Bengals fans need to get used to picking low in the draft because this is a new era!

Agree with the majority of what you said here.  Just want to give some insight I recently received around hayden.

Won't go in depth on the source here, but i had a long conversation with an individual high up in another nfl teams staff about our hayden pick up.  This individual has a knowledge about players and the team systems far beyond what 99.99% of us here have and I trust his insight.  He made it clear there will be a significant drop off from CJ to Hurst.  Said he's a great guy, but he's going to struggle with more advanced routes / package pick-ups we installed with CJ.  Give him a point in a straight line down the field and he'll get to it fast, I was told, but don't expect a ton of production that requires football IQ.  Also indicated CJ is a far superior blocker.  

Again, not saying we should have gone after a TE, just want to pass along and temper expectations for Hurst.  He's just not in the same league as CJ.  I'm more concerned with the loss of CJ's intangibles and his locker room presence really.  Can't fault the guy one bit for getting that bag and will always root for him.  

[*ochocincos*]

(05-05-2022, 01:13 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Agree with the majority of what you said here.  Just want to give some insight I recently received around hayden.

Won't go in depth on the source here, but i had a long conversation with an individual high up in another nfl teams staff about our hayden pick up.  This individual has a knowledge about players and the team systems far beyond what 99.99% of us here have and I trust his insight.  He made it clear there will be a significant drop off from CJ to Hurst.  Said he's a great guy, but he's going to struggle with more advanced routes / package pick-ups we installed with CJ.  Give him a point in a straight line down the field and he'll get to it fast, I was told, but don't expect a ton of production that requires football IQ.  Also indicated CJ is a far superior blocker.  

Again, not saying we should have gone after a TE, just want to pass along and temper expectations for Hurst.  He's just not in the same league as CJ.  I'm more concerned with the loss of CJ's intangibles and his locker room presence really.  Can't fault the guy one bit for getting that bag and will always root for him.  

TEs the Bengals would have had to take in Rd 3 and gamble on a DT later:
- Ruckert (low production in college, good blocker)
- Kolar
- Bellinger (low production in college, good blocker)
- Ferguson


Isaiah Likely was available still when Volson was picked in Rd 4, but Likely had pretty bad measurables at the Combine that could have turned the Bengals (and other teams) away.

From looking at the TEs in next year's draft class, I think the Bengals should plan to take one early there.
I'd be stoked to get Sam Laporta from Iowa on Day 2.

[leonardfan40]

(05-04-2022, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have seen Andy Dalton injured 3 times and he was not getting sacked on any of them. Once making a tackle. Once in a scrum trying to recover a fumble. And once running the ball.

Yeah but Andy is an enigma. One time I saw him fumble a ball in a playoff game without being touched lol

[ATOTR]

First 2 picks were solid. Hill was a steal at 31 and will play a ton this year (Barring injuries)

The only pick I hated was Carter - Travis Jones would have really made the first 3 picks home runs.

Watch Carter become the next Geno, but who the hell knows.

[Yogo]

(05-05-2022, 02:02 PM)ATOTR Wrote: First 2 picks were solid.   Hill was a steal at 31 and will play a ton this year (Barring injuries)

The only pick I hated was Carter -  Travis Jones would have really made the first 3 picks home runs.

Watch Carter become the next Geno, but who the hell knows.

But Travis was taken already.  Travis was more a NT not a 3T.  I think Lou really was looking for more of an inside pass rushing 3T, so Zach was the pick.

[fredtoast]

(05-05-2022, 02:02 PM)ATOTR Wrote: The only pick I hated was Carter -  Travis Jones would have really made the first 3 picks home runs.

Travis Jones was taken 20 picks before our third round selection.

[Hammerstripes]

(05-05-2022, 01:13 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Agree with the majority of what you said here.  Just want to give some insight I recently received around hayden.

Won't go in depth on the source here, but i had a long conversation with an individual high up in another nfl teams staff about our hayden pick up.  This individual has a knowledge about players and the team systems far beyond what 99.99% of us here have and I trust his insight.  He made it clear there will be a significant drop off from CJ to Hurst.  Said he's a great guy, but he's going to struggle with more advanced routes / package pick-ups we installed with CJ.  Give him a point in a straight line down the field and he'll get to it fast, I was told, but don't expect a ton of production that requires football IQ.  Also indicated CJ is a far superior blocker.  

Again, not saying we should have gone after a TE, just want to pass along and temper expectations for Hurst.  He's just not in the same league as CJ.  I'm more concerned with the loss of CJ's intangibles and his locker room presence really.  Can't fault the guy one bit for getting that bag and will always root for him.  

Considering how little we use the TE, I don't think that massive drop off you mention will affect us that much - if at all.  And, as a pass catcher, I'd much rather have Hurst over CJ.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-05-2022, 01:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: TEs the Bengals would have had to take in Rd 3 and gamble on a DT later:
- Ruckert (low production in college, good blocker)
- Kolar
- Bellinger (low production in college, good blocker)
- Ferguson


Isaiah Likely was available still when Volson was picked in Rd 4, but Likely had pretty bad measurables at the Combine that could have turned the Bengals (and other teams) away.

From looking at the TEs in next year's draft class, I think the Bengals should plan to take one early there.
I'd be stoked to get Sam Laporta from Iowa on Day 2.

Yes sir.   Have liked Laporta every time I have watched Iowa. They put out pretty good TE's.

(05-05-2022, 02:20 PM)Yogo Wrote: But Travis was taken already.  Travis was more a NT not a 3T.  I think Lou really was looking for more of an inside pass rushing 3T, so Zach was the pick.

True, even though I thought Travis could still rush the passer he was more of a NT than a 3-tech and was not an option.

[ATOTR]

(05-05-2022, 02:20 PM)Yogo Wrote: But Travis was taken already.  Travis was more a NT not a 3T.  I think Lou really was looking for more of an inside pass rushing 3T, so Zach was the pick.

Lol, yes he was.  What a brain fart by me. 

[OSUfan]

(05-05-2022, 01:01 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: No not quality over quantity. I think that's become the Bengals draft strategy and find a position of weakness and just throw a bunch of draft picks at it and see what works. My suggestion was adding depth at multiple spots not putting all your eggs into 1 basket if you will. I didn't mean I dislike Carter just adding a DT with a little more of the body type later was 1 one of the options we could've added as well. Two of the better LB's on your list are coming back from injury and the 2 UDFA linebackers you mentioned aren't off the ball linebackers. 

How do you consider the Bengals strategy that of throwing multiple picks at positions of weakness? If that were the case we would have come out of this draft with multiple corners. There was not a selection in this draft that they reached for or that does not bring value to the roster. Not sure what you are considering when you are stating an off the ball LB but for a guy that projects as a strong side LB Wells has shown pretty well in coverage. Well if Wilson is one of those returning from an injury then be thrilled because he was money playing injured!

I am also still trying to figure out your criteria for 3T. What "body type" are you talking about?

[OSUfan]

(05-05-2022, 01:13 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Agree with the majority of what you said here.  Just want to give some insight I recently received around hayden.

Won't go in depth on the source here, but i had a long conversation with an individual high up in another nfl teams staff about our hayden pick up.  This individual has a knowledge about players and the team systems far beyond what 99.99% of us here have and I trust his insight.  He made it clear there will be a significant drop off from CJ to Hurst.  Said he's a great guy, but he's going to struggle with more advanced routes / package pick-ups we installed with CJ.  Give him a point in a straight line down the field and he'll get to it fast, I was told, but don't expect a ton of production that requires football IQ.  Also indicated CJ is a far superior blocker.  

Again, not saying we should have gone after a TE, just want to pass along and temper expectations for Hurst.  He's just not in the same league as CJ.  I'm more concerned with the loss of CJ's intangibles and his locker room presence really.  Can't fault the guy one bit for getting that bag and will always root for him.  

Not sure what expectations of Hurst need to be tempered. While CJ was a catalyst guy he is not one of the top TEs in the game of football. If you examine how Hurst has been utilized over his career it is extremely similar to CJ. From what I have seen of the snaps he has taken for Baltimore and Atlanta he is going to fit the role we use the position very well. He is pretty strong in the TE screen game and can find the soft spot to settle down in a zone. Really consistent in the short crossing game and has shown some ability to get behind defenders in the right situations. Just as CJ he is not one of the top TEs in the game but should fit the role here pretty well.