Paul Daughtery: Doc: Zac Taylor came in strutting, without actually strutting. He was

[Nepa]

(05-03-2022, 08:23 PM)PDub80 Wrote: LOL!!!! Yeah, AFTER ZT started winning and went to the SB. Of course. Before? LOL!!!! No, Fred absolutely didn't. He railed against and badmouthed this coaching staff for those first 2 years. ****

I don't know all of what Fred said or didn't say. But I do remember him saying to give ZT three years, that a coach deserves three years. I remember that because it influenced my own thought process on the matter.

I do agree with a statement you made in another post above: "Those people never apologize to the level of which they level blame and just hop from one headline to another believing anything they read as long as it fits into their preconceived biases." I thought that was a very pithy statement of what we've seen a lot of: headline-blasting blame directed on the basis of accusations and then virtual silence if information comes in that doesn't fit that bias. It's no surprise the trust in media these days is historically low.

[Frank Booth]

(05-03-2022, 08:15 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Bill Burr just touched on this today when talking about the Johnny Depp trial.... There will always be idiots who believe any allegation without proof or sense enough to get all of the details before coming to conclusions. For them, just because 1 person claims something against another, that's good enough for them. Those people never apologize to the level of which they level blame and just hop from one headline to another believing anything they read as long as it fits into their preconceived biases. They are utterly clueless, willfully ignorant humans and generally go without care of being right or wrong. They just want to judge without fact and be heard....

Congrats to you both for making it onto Bill's podcast. He's talking about you.

It’s not even the rape thing

It’s known that he parties a lot and doesn’t put as much effort in as the other players

[Soonerpeace]

I think it’s unfair to think Mike Brown and Duke Tobin didn’t pay attention to guys drafted character. But Zac had them take it to another level on the discovery, and wanted guys that loved football, were captains, were leaders, and came from winning programs.

[*bfine32*]

Hey I like Zac as much as anyone, but they knew about the Jackson allegations before they drafted him. To suggest he didn't means you support him being clueless.

WTS, there is a new culture, but it's not absolute. La'el comes with baggage.

[PDub80]

(05-03-2022, 08:51 PM)bonesaw Wrote: Good question because I was little during the Sam Wyche days and probably didn't know or care about such things but I do remember a RB going missing on a crack bender during the Super Bowl.  Not sure how many more incidents like that their were though.  

Stanley Wilson!

I'm sure there were other Bengals who were of questionable cheracter through the 90s.... But I don't recall anything near what came during Marvin's tenure. And now after Marvin we see a completely different image from that era. I honestly think MB took a lot of slings and arrows for following Marvin's wishes on those questionable guys.

[PDub80]

(05-03-2022, 09:14 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: It’s not even the rape thing

It’s known that he parties a lot and doesn’t put as much effort in as the other players

^ If that's the case the dude will be cut and gone. This coaching staff doesn't seem to mess sround with those types of guys. I won't shed a tear either way.

After seeing that the kid they just drafted stayed behind at his school to coach and work with the players still in school, I'm really pulling for him to do well. People that work that hard/extra deserve chances to develop.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-03-2022, 09:18 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think it’s unfair to think Mike Brown and Duke Tobin  didn’t pay attention to guys drafted character. But Zac had them take it to another level on the discovery, and wanted guys that loved football, were captains, were leaders, and came from winning programs.

I think MB always had a spot for trying to get 1st-2nd round rated guys that fall. But during the Marvin era, they were constantly close to getting over the hump so they took more chances.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-03-2022, 09:14 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: It’s not even the rape thing

It’s known that he parties a lot and doesn’t put as much effort in as the other players

He goes to a bar, *1* time (that bogus report from last year) and, "he's known to party." <_<

[reuben.ahmed]

Burrow makes everyone look good

[fredtoast]

(05-03-2022, 08:23 PM)PDub80 Wrote:  Fred crapped on Joey B a ton, too and repeatedly said Joe couldn't throw the deep ball..... And then this year happened and everyone's hanging on these guy's nuts. 

This is a perfect example of why so many people fall for this "character stuff".

All I ever did was speak the truth about Burrow's problems throwing the deep ball.  But some people stuck their heads in the sand and swore it was not true.  Everytime I mentioned Burrow's problem with the deep ball I said it could be corrected because it was not based on lack of arm strength.  But the "Cult of Character" don't deal in facts.  They make up whatever fits their theory.

Taylor's "character" got us the worst record in the NFL until he got enough talented free agents to build a roster.  Once again I speak facts and truth while the "Cult of Character" make up a story to fit their theory.

[fredtoast]

(05-03-2022, 09:22 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I honestly think MB took a lot of slings and arrows for following Marvin's wishes on those questionable guys.

You need to educate yourself a little on Bengal history.

When Chris Henry was suspended Marvin Lewis swore he would never play for the Bengals again.  Mike Vrown re-signed him against Marvin's wishes.

Another example of the "Cult of Character" re-creating history to fit their theory.

[fredtoast]

(05-03-2022, 08:17 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Did Mike Brown do this often BEFORE Marvin? I don't recall any major or recurring character issues until Marvin was in Cincy... and virtually NONE since he left. If MB made a habit of this pre-Marvin, I would honestly like to hear the examples.

Again educate yourself on a little Bengal history.

Why were we able to get guys like Corey Dillion and Chad Johnson in the second round?

What about Peter Warrick's partner in crime from FSU, Ron Dugans?

[Soonerpeace]

(05-04-2022, 01:54 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Burrow makes everyone look good

Tom Brady always made Bill Belicheck look great

[WeezyBengal]

I attribute the success of this team to having good players on it more than the "culture".

Adding talented guys like Reader, Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, etc. to the roster is the reason why this team is good.

Sure, having a good culture helps and it's a cute buzzword - but it's not the main reason the Bengals are good now. I'm not shocked Doc missed the point completely, guy is lazy and completely out of touch.

[WeezyBengal]

(05-03-2022, 08:23 PM)PDub80 Wrote: LOL!!!! Yeah, AFTER ZT started winning and went to the SB. Of course. Before? LOL!!!! No, Fred absolutely didn't. He railed against and badmouthed this coaching staff for those first 2 years. Especially how they handled Dunlap and the locker room ZT was creating. Fred crapped on Joey B a ton, too and repeatedly said Joe couldn't throw the deep ball..... And then this year happened and everyone's hanging on these guy's nuts. Ahhhhh, the weather is quite fair in Cincinnati these days, eh? But don't get it twisted. Many... many many many of these JN ra-ra cheerleaders were all about firing ZT, Lou, etc early and often. 1,000s of posts on here about it to go sift through.

Jumping on the ZT wagon now is EASY and mindless. Show me the people wanting to stay the course and be patient enough to give the guy 3-4 years from the start to change the org. There are but a small handful on here. THOSE are the ones with foresight and who were interested in character and seeing a change. But the ZT kite tail grabbers after they see success? After the things they posted about him, Lou, etc? To quote a famous Bengals: Child.... please.

Yep. I almost spit my coffee out after reading the first sentence of the OP. 

To be fair, I railed against ZT too. I'm still not 100% sold, but I'm getting there. 

[Dr.Z]

Good article. Just wanted to add that Taylor's press conferences are a breath of fresh air. He's able to exude confidence without arrogance and seems to actually try to engage without talking down to the media. There are obviously some that will never like him and give him zero percent of the credit for when we have success and 100 percent of the blame when we don't, but I'm pretty glad we have him.

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-03-2022, 09:14 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: It’s not even the rape thing

It’s known that he parties a lot and doesn’t put as much effort in as the other players

I saw the Duke Tobin quote from maybe a month ago when he was talking about Carman. That they were hoping he came back this year as a "more mature, stronger and better player". I wasn't quite sure what the more mature was about. But there may be some things behind the scenes we were not aware of.

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-04-2022, 01:54 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Burrow makes everyone look good

Zac Taylor and the coaching certainly deserve credit for the success. Burrow and Chase do make things look better. We had that stretch of games where we were scoring well in the final 2 mins of the half and all we did was have Burrow throw it deep to Chase. It was insane how many times that worked. That along with our defense keeping games manageable probably a bigger impact than we realize on our record.

[PDub80]

(05-04-2022, 09:23 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yep. I almost spit my coffee out after reading the first sentence of the OP. 

To be fair, I railed against ZT too. I'm still not 100% sold, but I'm getting there. 

Oh, sure! I haven't been 100% on board with ZT, either. He has deserved criticism. I just think there's a difference between criticism and just blatant posts where the guy can do nothing right and is given no chance and they want him and the staff fired. Or the complete dismissal that the roster ZT/staff inherited was garbage as a whole and didn't fit what they ultimately wanted to do.

Even last year there were things that frustrated me.... The 4th quarter against the Jets play calling still bothers me. I'm excited to see where this all develops long term for the Bengals.

[shanebo]

One thing I will say -- I honestly believe that the difference between this year's super bowl run and our long history of playoff losses is the character of our players and team culture. In our Marvin Lewis-era playoff games, we usually had the more talented team but somehow found a way to lose. Specifically the 2015 loss to the Steelers. And the 2011 loss to the Texans with a backup QB. We were the favorites and should have won those games, but we shat the bed. Mental breakdowns. Bad penalties. Nobody stepping up to the challenge. Soft.

This year, other than the Raiders game, we were underdogs but still pulled out gutsy, close wins because of character/culture. No doubt in my mind the 2015 team loses to the Raiders. But these guys are mentally and physically tough. Maximum effort. Everyone plays to the whistle. Sure, we have some individual guys with character questions -- Carman, Apple, Mixon (I guess) ... -- but the majority of the team is good character guys who compensate for the others. That's what got us to the SB, IMO. And I think ZT is largely responsible for that.