2 Bengals WRs in top 13 on PFF list

[*jason*]

(05-25-2022, 10:09 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'd agree on some of those guys like McLaurin, Godwin and Moore. But Thielen and Allen are getting older and Williams started the year of a tear but then disappeared down the stretch. Lockett has always been a guy with huge games but multiple games of very little production. I wonder if they factor in. QB because that would affect McLaurin and Lockett.

Terry McLaurin is every bit as inconsistent as Tyler Lockett. Terry's never had good QB play so I'd give him a pass. That dude would kill it on the Bengals. It seems like WRs traditionally make a pretty big jump between years 2 and 3 so maybe they're factoring that in with Tee. Quite frankly I don't think any of those guys are better than him... Godwin if any of em.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-25-2022, 09:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well sure, doesn’t really change what I said. A TE can still put up a lot of TD’s even with a nice WR group. For as good as both Tee and Boyd are - neither have ever even cracked double digit TD’s. Uzomah had the same amount as Boyd last year (5), and only one less than Tee. And I think Hurst could be even better in this offense than Uzomah was.

I mean, it kind of does though. Eifert got the big production because of terrible production from the #3 WR spot that year. So he did in fact NOT have 3 very good WRs on the field because the 3rd had under 400 yards receiving and 0 TDs.

If Hurst has better production than Uzomah in 2022, it will likely cost someone else production. It will mean Chase or Higgins don't improve off 2021, Boyd gets phased out of the offense, or the RBs get removed entirely from the passing game. (Or there are big injuries.) It's not like Burrow threw for paltry numbers in 2021, there's only so much of an increase Burrow can make.

The Bucs threw for the most yards and most TDs in the NFL. They had the same number of 1,000 yard receivers and the same number of guys with more than 5 receiving TDs as the Bengals. Eventually there's a point where adding more talent doesn't mean more numbers, simply because you hit a limit of opportunity.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-25-2022, 10:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean, it kind of does though. Eifert got the big production because of terrible production from the #3 WR spot that year. So he did in fact NOT have 3 very good WRs on the field because the 3rd had under 400 yards receiving and 0 TDs.

If Hurst has better production than Uzomah in 2022, it will likely cost someone else production. It will mean Chase or Higgins don't improve off 2021, Boyd gets phased out of the offense, or the RBs get removed entirely from the passing game. (Or there are big injuries.) It's not like Burrow threw for paltry numbers in 2021, there's only so much of an increase Burrow can make.

The Bucs threw for the most yards and most TDs in the NFL. They had the same number of 1,000 yard receivers and the same number of guys with more than 5 receiving TDs as the Bengals. Eventually there's a point where adding more talent doesn't mean more numbers, simply because you hit a limit of opportunity.

We were the 10th worst red zone offense in the league. There’s absolutely room for major improvement in that area (ie more TD’s from the TE position especially). We literally lived off the big plays last year. With a better OL we could absolutely see better red zone efficiency. I don’t think it would surprise anyone if Burrow throws for 40+ TD’s.

[Whatever]

(05-25-2022, 10:09 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'd agree on some of those guys like McLaurin, Godwin and Moore. But Thielen and Allen are getting older and Williams started the year of a tear but then disappeared down the stretch. Lockett has always been a guy with huge games but multiple games of very little production. I wonder if they factor in. QB because that would affect McLaurin and Lockett.

I think most WR's have games where they disappear.  If we look at Tee's game logs last year, there's some ugly games.  32 yards on 7 targets against Green Bay.  62 yards on a whopping 15 targets the first Ravens game.  15 yards on 3 targets against the Raiders.  23 yards on 3 targets against Denver.  If we're being fair about big games, Higgins had nearly 200 yards and 1/3 of his TD's for the year whipping up on a PS CB in the 2nd Ravens game.  I don't see how that can be a knock against guys like Lockett, but not Tee.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-25-2022, 10:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We were the 10th worst red zone offense in the league. There’s absolutely room for major improvement in that area (ie more TD’s from the TE position especially). We literally lived off the big plays last year. With a better OL we could absolutely see better red zone efficiency. I don’t think it would surprise anyone if Burrow throws for 40+ TD’s.

It should, because only 3 teams (2 QBs) threw for at least 40 TDs in 2021, and none above 43.

Also, again, are you not expecting Chase to improve at all over his rookie season? Are you not expecting Higgins to improve at all over his Sophomore season? Are you not expecting Mixon to do better behind a better OL? Being the 5th most important skill player on an offense, your production increases are almost always coming at the cost of someone above you. It's still an important spot, but it's not going to be a fruitful one so long as everyone stays healthy and produces as they should, and if they don't, then that goes right back to getting your increase from someone else's decrease.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-25-2022, 11:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It should, because only 3 teams (2 QBs) threw for at least 40 TDs in 2021, and none above 43.

Also, again, are you not expecting Chase to improve at all over his rookie season? Are you not expecting Higgins to improve at all over his Sophomore season? Are you not expecting Mixon to do better behind a better OL? Being the 5th most important skill player on an offense, your production increases are almost always coming at the cost of someone above you. It's still an important spot, but it's not going to be a fruitful one so long as everyone stays healthy and produces as they should, and if they don't, then that goes right back to getting your increase from someone else's decrease.

I don’t see why we shouldn’t expect him to join that exclusive group this year. He’ll have a decent OL for the 1st time in his career, and the benefit of a true offseason - also a 1st.

But anyway, we’ll just have to wait and see. I personally think Hurst will surprise some folks. To me - he’s an upgrade over Uzomah as a pass catcher, and we saw Burrow make some really spectacular plays with CJ last season. Going right up the seam might be the best ball Burrow throws.

[TecmoBengals]

(05-25-2022, 11:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t see why we shouldn’t expect him to join that exclusive group this year. He’ll have a decent OL for the 1st time in his career, and the benefit of a true offseason - also a 1st.

But anyway, we’ll just have to wait and see. I personally think Hurst will surprise some folks. To me - he’s an upgrade over Uzomah as a pass catcher, and we saw Burrow make some really spectacular plays with CJ last season. Going right up the seam might be the best ball Burrow throws.

I agree with these points. Uzomah had 49 receptions, 493 yards, and 5 TDs while basically being the fourth option in the passing game. Those are decent numbers. If Hurst can play to the strengths that made him a first round pick, his ability to be a passing catching threat, then there are inevitably going to be plays where he's wide open when teams try to shut down Chase/Higgins/Boyd. Burrow will find him.

Hurst is on a one-year deal and I'm speculating he's getting a nice contract offer during the '23 FA window.

[*ochocincos*]

Gotta say, I think they're undervaluing Jefferson.
He was 3rd highest WR in 2020 and 2nd highest WR in 2021 in receiving yards.
Over 3000 yards in two seasons.
With Kirk Cousins as the QB.

Heck, Jefferson has put up more yards the past two years than any other receiver.
Jefferson - 3016
Adams - 2927
Kupp - 2921
Diggs - 2760
Hill - 2515
Hopkins - 1979 (hampered by 572 yards this past year, was on pace for just under 1000 yards for full season though)

I'd put Jefferson at least ahead of Hill and Hopkins, possibly also ahead of Diggs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-25-2022, 12:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: Pretty bad list, imo.

Does anyone think Julio is a Top 20 WR anymore?

I'm not sure how D-Hop is #3 after the year he had and the suspension, especially after all the guys they knocked down to 3rd tier for injury prone off years.  

This will be unpopular, but Higgins over McLaurin, Godwin, Allen, Thielen, Lockett, Williams, and Moore is kind of a joke 

Good points, I didn't bother looking at the list before, just our guys and where they were ranked. Higgins has higher upside 
than a few of the guys you are talking about though, especially Thielen, Godwin and Lockett who are older I believe. D-Hop 
definitely shouldn't be that high after last year as you say. No way Julio is a top 20 WR anymore either.

(05-25-2022, 09:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well sure, doesn’t really change what I said. A TE can still put up a lot of TD’s even with a nice WR group. For as good as both Tee and Boyd are - neither have ever even cracked double digit TD’s. Uzomah had the same amount as Boyd last year (5), and only one less than Tee. And I think Hurst could be even better in this offense than Uzomah was.

Completely agree, truly believe Hurst puts up his best season by far with these WR's taking attention away from him.

Much more talented route runner and pass catcher than Uzo with more quicks. Should really help us out in the RZ.

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-25-2022, 11:26 PM)Whatever Wrote: I think most WR's have games where they disappear.  If we look at Tee's game logs last year, there's some ugly games.  32 yards on 7 targets against Green Bay.  62 yards on a whopping 15 targets the first Ravens game.  15 yards on 3 targets against the Raiders.  23 yards on 3 targets against Denver.  If we're being fair about big games, Higgins had nearly 200 yards and 1/3 of his TD's for the year whipping up on a PS CB in the 2nd Ravens game.  I don't see how that can be a knock against guys like Lockett, but not Tee.

Your not wrong I certainly can let my Fandom get in the way. But Lockett seems to do that every year and Higgins was just in his 2nd year that he was sidelined for a bit with a shoulder injury for a bit. If they're factoring in the QB into the mix than Higgins is in a much better situation. But he may not deserve to be higher than a guy like Williams.