Just wondering about the OL.

[007BengalsFan]

(06-01-2022, 11:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: From the outside it may seem strange to other teams that we are going crazy over a group of O-line free agents without a single Pro Bowl player.  Collins is probably the only one who would be expected to even get any pro bowl consideration.  But they will be a HUGE upgrade over what we had last year.

I don't expect these guys to suddenly become an elite O-line.  But if they can just be a solid top ten unit this offense should EXPLODE.

I agree. I dont think these guys are elite (although Collins is close) but I do think they are a big upgrade over what we had. This is not a top 5 offensive line but if they can make an improvement to the top third of NFL lines, this team will put up some big numbers

[Bengalbug]

Lael Collins is arguably the best OL on the bengals. The other two are smart with high football IQ. I think they will figure it out quickly.

Cappa:
At 6 feet and 7 inches, scouts are questioning if Cappa’s ability to protect the quarterback from elusive pass rushers will translate on the big stage.

“The critics aren’t paying attention because he throws them out the club, regardless of how fast or strong they are,” HSU senior right guard Robert Williams said. “His football IQ is insanely high. All he has to do is use his right or left hand and he’ll toss you.”

Karras:
Along with setting a physical tone, Patriots head coach Bill Belichick pointed to Karras’ experience over the last two seasons at center and a high football IQ as a standout trait.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(05-31-2022, 07:49 PM)pally Wrote: The Chiefs had 5 new starters last season and had a top 5 line according to PFF

I don’t know if it was the problem but did that offensive line struggle early in the season when the chiefs were really disappointing?

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-31-2022, 07:49 PM)pally Wrote: The Chiefs had 5 new starters last season and had a top 5 line according to PFF

At least I scrolled to read other posts before firing this off...

Beat me to it, Pally.

FWIW, I will add that Pollack has coached La'el Collins before, and was his first offensive line coach in the NFL.  Dave Lapham has a great podcast on "In the Trenches" where he interviews Collins and asks about his relationship with Pollack.  Collins mentions him being his first real mentor as a line coach and how much he helped him understand not only his assignment, but everyone's assignment, which helps them play as a more cohesive unit.

I know that we all puckered a bit when Cappa had his "core deal", but I have been assured he will be fine by the time training camp rolls around.  So, think about this:  In the past, we would be so excited about the one FA addition the team made on the line to help fix the problem.  A year ago, it was The Great Barrier Reiff".  We thought the line would be awesome since now we had solid bookends.  That signing might have been what truly opened the door for drafting Chase.  

One guy.  Reiff.  We were SO EXCITED.

This year?  They signed a solid PFF ranked Center that can also grade out in the high 70s as a LG.  Position versatility.  Proven winner.  A veteran that represents a significant upgrade over Hopkins (to be fair, he was one tough SOB coming off his injury that quickly).   That's one.  

They signed a veteran RG that left Tom Brady and the Bucs to play with Joe Burrow and the Bengals.  A guy that played 1182 snaps at RG and allowed 32 pressures all season on a team that loves to air it out.  Oh, and he had ONE penalty.   That's two.

We got a guy rated better than Reiff and borderline ELITE at run blocking.  La'el Collins, the new RT.  For good measure, he is an LSU alum, which can never be a bad thing to have even more bayou Bengals on the squad. 

That's three massive upgrades.  In the past, we would be talking about what a difference the one guy could make, like Reiff a year ago.  Now our biggest concern is whether Carman can show the maturity and consistency to earn the LG spot.  If he doesn't, there are no less than three guys fighting to take it from him.  Nothing will be handed to him this season, although to be fair, it was XSF injury that forced him in to action early.

For comparison sake, look at the defensive line in 2020.  They added Reader and we were all excited.  He was injured and the line was awful.  In 2021, they added Hendrickson and Ogunjobi to that line and with a healthy Reader, they proved to be very good in 2021.  

I can see the offensive line taking a similar leap in 2022.  Given that Burrow was the PFF highest rated passer in the NFL in 2021, that should scare the ever loving crap out of the league. 

[Dr.Z]

(06-03-2022, 09:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: At least I scrolled to read other posts before firing this off...

Beat me to it, Pally.

FWIW, I will add that Pollack has coached La'el Collins before, and was his first offensive line coach in the NFL.  Dave Lapham has a great podcast on "In the Trenches" where he interviews Collins and asks about his relationship with Pollack.  Collins mentions him being his first real mentor as a line coach and how much he helped him understand not only his assignment, but everyone's assignment, which helps them play as a more cohesive unit.

I know that we all puckered a bit when Cappa had his "core deal", but I have been assured he will be fine by the time training camp rolls around.  So, think about this:  In the past, we would be so excited about the one FA addition the team made on the line to help fix the problem.  A year ago, it was The Great Barrier Reiff".  We thought the line would be awesome since now we had solid bookends.  That signing might have been what truly opened the door for drafting Chase.  

One guy.  Reiff.  We were SO EXCITED.

This year?  They signed a solid PFF ranked Center that can also grade out in the high 70s as a LG.  Position versatility.  Proven winner.  A veteran that represents a significant upgrade over Hopkins (to be fair, he was one tough SOB coming off his injury that quickly).   That's one.  

They signed a veteran RG that left Tom Brady and the Bucs to play with Joe Burrow and the Bengals.  A guy that played 1182 snaps at RG and allowed 32 pressures all season on a team that loves to air it out.  Oh, and he had ONE penalty.   That's two.

We got a guy rated better than Reiff and borderline ELITE at run blocking.  La'el Collins, the new RT.  For good measure, he is an LSU alum, which can never be a bad thing to have even more bayou Bengals on the squad. 

That's three massive upgrades.  In the past, we would be talking about what a difference the one guy could make, like Reiff a year ago.  Now our biggest concern is whether Carman can show the maturity and consistency to earn the LG spot.  If he doesn't, there are no less than three guys fighting to take it from him.  Nothing will be handed to him this season, although to be fair, it was XSF injury that forced him in to action early.

For comparison sake, look at the defensive line in 2020.  They added Reader and we were all excited.  He was injured and the line was awful.  In 2021, they added Hendrickson and Ogunjobi to that line and with a healthy Reader, they proved to be very good in 2021.  

I can see the offensive line taking a similar leap in 2022.  Given that Burrow was the PFF highest rated passer in the NFL in 2021, that should scare the ever loving crap out of the league. 

Good post.  It's been a pleasant surprise how this organization has operated during the recent past ; pretty much coinciding with when they decided to hire Taylor.  Fans getting a little spoiled, although any tenured fans certainly deserve it  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-03-2022, 09:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: At least I scrolled to read other posts before firing this off...

Beat me to it, Pally.

FWIW, I will add that Pollack has coached La'el Collins before, and was his first offensive line coach in the NFL.  Dave Lapham has a great podcast on "In the Trenches" where he interviews Collins and asks about his relationship with Pollack.  Collins mentions him being his first real mentor as a line coach and how much he helped him understand not only his assignment, but everyone's assignment, which helps them play as a more cohesive unit.

I know that we all puckered a bit when Cappa had his "core deal", but I have been assured he will be fine by the time training camp rolls around.  So, think about this:  In the past, we would be so excited about the one FA addition the team made on the line to help fix the problem.  A year ago, it was The Great Barrier Reiff".  We thought the line would be awesome since now we had solid bookends.  That signing might have been what truly opened the door for drafting Chase.  

One guy.  Reiff.  We were SO EXCITED.

This year?  They signed a solid PFF ranked Center that can also grade out in the high 70s as a LG.  Position versatility.  Proven winner.  A veteran that represents a significant upgrade over Hopkins (to be fair, he was one tough SOB coming off his injury that quickly).   That's one.  

They signed a veteran RG that left Tom Brady and the Bucs to play with Joe Burrow and the Bengals.  A guy that played 1182 snaps at RG and allowed 32 pressures all season on a team that loves to air it out.  Oh, and he had ONE penalty.   That's two.

We got a guy rated better than Reiff and borderline ELITE at run blocking.  La'el Collins, the new RT.  For good measure, he is an LSU alum, which can never be a bad thing to have even more bayou Bengals on the squad. 

That's three massive upgrades.  In the past, we would be talking about what a difference the one guy could make, like Reiff a year ago.  Now our biggest concern is whether Carman can show the maturity and consistency to earn the LG spot.  If he doesn't, there are no less than three guys fighting to take it from him.  Nothing will be handed to him this season, although to be fair, it was XSF injury that forced him in to action early.

For comparison sake, look at the defensive line in 2020.  They added Reader and we were all excited.  He was injured and the line was awful.  In 2021, they added Hendrickson and Ogunjobi to that line and with a healthy Reader, they proved to be very good in 2021.  

I can see the offensive line taking a similar leap in 2022.  Given that Burrow was the PFF highest rated passer in the NFL in 2021, that should scare the ever loving crap out of the league. 

Love it. Spot on with everything SHRacer. What really excites me about the 3 massive upgrades is they are all fantastic, 
mean, technically sound run blockers. Mixon should be extremely excited about this season along with Evans and if we 
keep him around Perine. As far as I know we will be keeping Perine around even if some are bent out of shape about the
SuperBowl.

A great run game should take some heat off of Burrow even if he is great under pressure, it should really help.

Big holes in the run game, more time for Burrow to drop into a pocket and read coverage and more time for the WR's to 
get open = WHO THE HELL KNOWS HOW GOOD THIS OFFENSE COULD BE?????

(06-03-2022, 11:55 AM)Dr.Z Wrote: Good post.  It's been a pleasant surprise how this organization has operated during the recent past ; pretty much coinciding with when they decided to hire Taylor.  Fans getting a little spoiled, although any tenured fans certainly deserve it  

About time we get a little spoiled after being shit on for so long lol

[Chezaugie]

An ESPN analyst also worries about the new OL. Hope he is way off base.

https://stripehype.com/2022/06/11/joe-burrow-sack-projections-alarmingly-high-2022/?fbclid=IwAR0vHzB4fEZdxf2-x3FtVNQS4rMBZnMyz7HasdFo3GA6yeS4WeRwpAkJ538

[Soonerpeace]

(06-12-2022, 12:52 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: An ESPN analyst also worries about the new OL. Hope he is way off base.

https://stripehype.com/2022/06/11/joe-burrow-sack-projections-alarmingly-high-2022/?fbclid=IwAR0vHzB4fEZdxf2-x3FtVNQS4rMBZnMyz7HasdFo3GA6yeS4WeRwpAkJ538

That chick from Stripehype is the biggest trouble maker. Her takes on FA moves were flat out horrendous. She wanted us to spend money on Armstead and Gilmore. Total dumb ass about the salary cap. She’s all about controversy. She’s maybe the dumbest chick in sports. Mike Clay ranks our OL #15. PFF has them much higher.

[KillerGoose]

(06-12-2022, 12:52 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: An ESPN analyst also worries about the new OL. Hope he is way off base.

https://stripehype.com/2022/06/11/joe-burrow-sack-projections-alarmingly-high-2022/?fbclid=IwAR0vHzB4fEZdxf2-x3FtVNQS4rMBZnMyz7HasdFo3GA6yeS4WeRwpAkJ538

For those who don't read the article - the analyst is predicting Burrow gets sacked 47 times in 2022. Could be because Burrow takes many sacks himself trying to make a play happen. Also, the analyst doesn't comment on it; it is a projections guide, full of fun predicted numbers and such. Just an entertainment piece, really. The link to the guide is below.

https://g.espncdn.com/s/ffldraftkit/22/NFLDK2022_CS_ClayProjections2022.pdf

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-12-2022, 01:31 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: That chick from Stripehype is the biggest trouble maker. Her takes on FA moves were flat out horrendous. She wanted us to spend money on Armstead and Gilmore. Total dumb ass about the salary cap. She’s all about controversy. She’s maybe the dumbest chick in sports. Mike Clay ranks our OL #15. PFF has them much higher.

Thanks, didn't want to click on that.

We wouldn't of been able to afford any of the other players we got if we went after Armstead and Gilmore lol

Armstead has been hurt a lot over his career and both of those guys are older than what we added.

She does sound like a dummy. Our FA and Draft were way better than anything she thought we should do.

(06-12-2022, 01:34 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: For those who don't read the article - the analyst is predicting Burrow gets sacked 47 times in 2022. Could be because Burrow takes many sacks himself trying to make a play happen. Also, the analyst doesn't comment on it; it is a projections guide, full of fun predicted numbers and such. Just an entertainment piece, really. The link to the guide is below.

https://g.espncdn.com/s/ffldraftkit/22/NFLDK2022_CS_ClayProjections2022.pdf

Thanks for giving the low down. I don't just click on random links. Let alone anything to do with espn who are just full of a 
bunch of idgits. I take anything anyone of them say with a grain of salt. Most of them don't know shit about sports and it is 
crazy they even have jobs talking about sports.

Burrow has spoke about him taking too many sacks last season and blaming himself. He will work on this and throw the ball 
away more. Bet on that. He won't get sacked more than last year even if he will take more sacks than about any QB with the
way he plays. A good running game will help and this along with the RZ scoring should really help everything on Offense to 
start clicking and gelling.

[fredtoast]

(06-12-2022, 01:34 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: For those who don't read the article - the analyst is predicting Burrow gets sacked 47 times in 2022. Could be because Burrow takes many sacks himself trying to make a play happen. Also, the analyst doesn't comment on it; it is a projections guide, full of fun predicted numbers and such. Just an entertainment piece, really. The link to the guide is below.

https://g.espncdn.com/s/ffldraftkit/22/NFLDK2022_CS_ClayProjections2022.pdf

I'll take 47 sacks if everything else projected here works out.

#5 offense
#5 defense
#4 team overall

[fredtoast]

(06-12-2022, 01:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for giving the low down. I don't just click on random links. Let alone anything to do with espn who are just full of a 
bunch of idgits. I take anything anyone of them say with a grain of salt. Most of them don't know shit about sports and it is 
crazy they even have jobs talking about sports.

WTF?

There are lots of very knowledgeable analysts at ESPN.  Sure, some of them are big-mouthed gas bags, but that is the same everywhere.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-12-2022, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF?

There are lots of very knowledgeable analysts at ESPN.  Sure, some of them are big-mouthed gas bags, but that is the same everywhere.  

Might be a couple, but most are what you say, big-mouthed gas bags lol

[Soonerpeace]

(06-12-2022, 01:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'll take 47 sacks if everything else projected here works out.

#5 offense
#5 defense
#4 team overall

I saw that too. Hard to imagine that kind of success with that many sacks. We can’t live with 47 sacks.

[Sled21]

(06-12-2022, 01:34 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: For those who don't read the article - the analyst is predicting Burrow gets sacked 47 times in 2022. Could be because Burrow takes many sacks himself trying to make a play happen. Also, the analyst doesn't comment on it; it is a projections guide, full of fun predicted numbers and such. Just an entertainment piece, really. The link to the guide is below.

https://g.espncdn.com/s/ffldraftkit/22/NFLDK2022_CS_ClayProjections2022.pdf

I suspect no matter how great the o-line is, Burrow is always going to take a lot of sacks, simply because of his style of play, and because of his attitude about sacks. He stated in an interview a while back all sacks aren't the same, and he doesn't care about sacks on 3rd down if he holds the ball trying to make a play, because if there's no play there right away, they are punting anyway, so the sack is moot. 

[KillerGoose]

(06-14-2022, 08:45 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I suspect no matter how great the o-line is, Burrow is always going to take a lot of sacks, simply because of his style of play, and because of his attitude about sacks. He stated in an interview a while back all sacks aren't the same, and he doesn't care about sacks on 3rd down if he holds the ball trying to make a play, because if there's no play there right away, they are punting anyway, so the sack is moot. 

Exactly. Burrow is that type of QB - he wants to make big plays happen, and he will live/die by that style of play. Now, the hope is that the offensive line is good enough to where he can sit back a little longer, and then bail to make things happen but I don't expect him to go full Peyton Manning and be sacked 15-16 times per season.

Now, one telling thing about these predictions is that the run game does not improve. Perhaps this analyst isn't a believer in the new additions, or just isn't a big fan of Mixon. He predicts that Mixon averages 4.1 YPC again, and that Cincinnati as a whole averages 4.2. I'm not putting a ton of stock into this because this is really just one of those fun off-season projection books, but still. 

[Soonerpeace]

(05-31-2022, 07:39 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: I know everyone is excited about the upgrades the Bengals made on the OL during FA. Not to be Debby Downer, but, can new individuals from different teams/schemes be cohesive as a unit in just the first year? The OL is a "unit" that feeds and depends off each player. The new guys are great individual players but I wonder if they can play as a solid "unit" having never played together.

Please, someone give me comfort.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-offensive-line-higher-than-expected-in-latest-rankings

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-14-2022, 09:24 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Exactly. Burrow is that type of QB - he wants to make big plays happen, and he will live/die by that style of play. Now, the hope is that the offensive line is good enough to where he can sit back a little longer, and then bail to make things happen but I don't expect him to go full Peyton Manning and be sacked 15-16 times per season.

Now, one telling thing about these predictions is that the run game does not improve. Perhaps this analyst isn't a believer in the new additions, or just isn't a big fan of Mixon. He predicts that Mixon averages 4.1 YPC again, and that Cincinnati as a whole averages 4.2. I'm not putting a ton of stock into this because this is really just one of those fun off-season projection books, but still. 

Spot on about Burrow and his style of play.

The second part about that guy predicting Mixon to only average 4.1 YPC with THIS O-line is absurd to me though...

LT - Jonah Williams
LG- Jackson Carman
C - Ted Karras
RG - Alex Cappa
RT - La'el Collins

That, is a run blocking OL that will be better in pass protection than what we saw last year but that, is a run blocking OL
and Pollack is a good run blocking OL coach. Expect this to be the biggest improvement on Offense besides in the RZ.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-02-2022, 11:00 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Lael Collins is arguably the best OL on the bengals.  The other two are smart with high football IQ.  I think they will figure it out quickly.

Cappa:
At 6 feet and 7 inches, scouts are questioning if Cappa’s ability to protect the quarterback from elusive pass rushers will translate on the big stage.

“The critics aren’t paying attention because he throws them out the club, regardless of how fast or strong they are,” HSU senior right guard Robert Williams said. “His football IQ is insanely high. All he has to do is use his right or left hand and he’ll toss you.”

Karras:
Along with setting a physical tone, Patriots head coach Bill Belichick pointed to Karras’ experience over the last two seasons at center and a high football IQ as a standout trait.

Alex Cappa is 6'5", not 6'7"

[George Cantstandya]

(06-14-2022, 04:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Alex Cappa is 6'5", not 6'7"

Wikipedia , NFL.com , pro football reference, and the official Bengals website have him listed at 6'6"   So maybe split it down the middle and agree at 6'6"     :)