Burrow's Success Without PA or Motion

[Au165]

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/best-quarterbacks-aaron-rodgers-joe-burrow-matthew-stafford-russell-wilson/

I knew we didn't use PA/Motion a ton but what I hadn't realized was his success relative to the entire league when not using those things. Usually those things are crutches for young QB's but in Joe's case he appears to be more comfortable with eyes down field and WR's set so he can see the coverage play out in real time. I actually know the writer of this and was talking to him about it and he said it's one of the weirdest things he's seen in a long time as young QB's just don't operate like this normally.

You would have to assume Joe has a say in this. I know last year myself and others wanted more motion and PA, but at this point I think Burrow simply doesn't want those things involved. I'd love to get a media member to ask him about it sometime because, again this is really not normal for a young guy.

[fredtoast]

Burrow may have been the best with no play action but I believe his numbers were better with play action than without.

Is that correct?

[KillerGoose]

(06-01-2022, 12:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Burrow may have been the best with no play action but I believe his numbers were better with play action than without.

Is that correct?

Interestingly, no. On PA, Burrow had a completion percentage of 65.9 with eight touchdowns and seven interceptions, good for a 96.63 passer rating. 

[*Synric*]

Because of the Wide Zone stretch the Bengals ran alot of their play action under center. The offensive line struggled in alot of these situation which hurt the overall numbers for Play Action.

In 2022 Id like to see more shotgun runs and play action not to mention RPOs similar to Green Bay. It would fit better with what Joe Burrow likes to do.

[higgy100]

(06-01-2022, 12:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/best-quarterbacks-aaron-rodgers-joe-burrow-matthew-stafford-russell-wilson/

I knew we didn't use PA/Motion a ton but what I hadn't realized was his success relative to the entire league when not using those things. Usually those things are crutches for young QB's but in Joe's case he appears to be more comfortable with eyes down field and WR's set so he can see the coverage play out in real time. I actually know the writer of this and was talking to him about it and he said it's one of the weirdest things he's seen in a long time as young QB's just don't operate like this normally.

You would have to assume Joe has a say in this. I know last year myself and others wanted more motion and PA, but at this point I think Burrow simply doesn't want those things involved. I'd love to get a media member to ask him about it sometime because, again this is really not normal for a young guy.

Ironically, he had a passer rating his Heisman year of over 150 in play-action passing which led the NCAA. I would bet he's a bit gun shy after taking so many hits/sacks (partially his own undoing) along with his injury on turning his back away from the pass rush (let alone corner blitzes) and being able to get set again without a defender draped all over him.

I'd imagine ranking 24th in rushing a year ago had something to do with that, albeit, I believe sacks on the QB reduces rushing yards per game so that rushing average is skewed quite a bit.

[QueenCity]

What was his % when he does play action from shotgun? I think that's what the league is going towards anyways.

[Whatever]

(06-01-2022, 12:31 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Interestingly, no. On PA, Burrow had a completion percentage of 65.9 with eight touchdowns and seven interceptions, good for a 96.63 passer rating. 

(06-01-2022, 12:36 PM)Synric Wrote: Because of the Wide Zone stretch the Bengals ran alot of their play action under center. The offensive line struggled in alot of these situation which hurt the overall numbers for Play Action.

In 2022 Id like to see more shotgun runs and play action not to mention RPOs similar to Green Bay. It would fit better with what Joe Burrow likes to do.

This is why I would sit there in complete bewilderment during the seemingly weekly "Put Burrow under center and run more play action" threads.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-01-2022, 12:39 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Ironically, he had a passer rating his Heisman year of over 150 in play-action passing which led the NCAA. I would bet he's a bit gun shy after taking so many hits/sacks (partially his own undoing) along with his injury on turning his back away from the pass rush (let alone corner blitzes) and being able to get set again without a defender draped all over him.

I'd imagine ranking 24th in rushing a year ago had something to do with that, albeit, I believe sacks on the QB reduces rushing yards per game so that rushing average is skewed quite a bit.

He also had a really strong OL with the ability to run the ball.  Defenses were forced to stay in and defend the run versus LSU, whereas the past few years nobody has respected the Bengals rushing threat.

[*Synric*]

(06-01-2022, 12:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He also had a really strong OL with the ability to run the ball.  Defenses were forced to stay in and defend the run versus LSU, whereas the past few years nobody has respected the Bengals rushing threat.

I would say around half of those Play Action plays at LSU were the RPO Slant. LSU and Joey B loved that play and ran it a ton to Chase and Jefferson.

[*bengalfan74*]

Put me in the surprised camp.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-01-2022, 12:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/best-quarterbacks-aaron-rodgers-joe-burrow-matthew-stafford-russell-wilson/

I knew we didn't use PA/Motion a ton but what I hadn't realized was his success relative to the entire league when not using those things. Usually those things are crutches for young QB's but in Joe's case he appears to be more comfortable with eyes down field and WR's set so he can see the coverage play out in real time. I actually know the writer of this and was talking to him about it and he said it's one of the weirdest things he's seen in a long time as young QB's just don't operate like this normally.

You would have to assume Joe has a say in this. I know last year myself and others wanted more motion and PA, but at this point I think Burrow simply doesn't want those things involved. I'd love to get a media member to ask him about it sometime because, again this is really not normal for a young guy.

Fantastic analysis from Doug. Pretty crazy how Burrow is the best without Motion all the while having probably the shittiest OL
of all these QB's. Will have to check this out deeper later after I get off of work. At the very least I wanted to look at this for a 
moment and bump it so it didn't slip to the 2nd page and out of my sight. Thanks for this Au165, nice thread.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-01-2022, 12:31 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Interestingly, no. On PA, Burrow had a completion percentage of 65.9 with eight touchdowns and seven interceptions, good for a 96.63 passer rating. 

Takes longer to get the ball out, no? Probably also doesn't help the Bengals had the 23rd rushing offense (26th in rushing YPC).

[Rubekahn29]

It may just be me, but I felt anytime we did play action there was almost someone in burrows face as soon as he got his head around.

[Soonerpeace]

(06-01-2022, 05:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Fantastic analysis from Doug. Pretty crazy how Burrow is the best without Motion all the while having probably the shittiest OL
of all these QB's. Will have to check this out deeper later after I get off of work. At the very least I wanted to look at this for a 
moment and bump it so it didn't slip to the 2nd page and out of my sight. Thanks for this Au165, nice thread.

One of the great things, which Joe has acknowledged several times, is Zac’s willingness to get Joe’s input on the offense. When you get HC/OC’s that were QB’s themselves they are much more adaptable. However Joe wants to go balls out with 00 personnel all the time LOL

[Soonerpeace]

(06-01-2022, 08:31 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: It may just be me, but I felt anytime we did play action there was almost someone in burrows face as soon as he got his head around.

The delayed draws are going to be better this year. Just more positive yards on first downs is going to so much help our rhythm

[SunsetBengal]

(06-01-2022, 08:31 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: One of the great things, which Joe has acknowledged several times, is Zac’s willingness to get Joe’s input on the offense. When you get HC/OC’s that were QB’s themselves they are much more adaptable. However Joe wants to go balls out with 00 personnel all the time LOL

He's got the tools to get the job done, now that the OL has been re-tooled.  However, I'd like to see them establish a lead, put the other team into pass-first mode, and then be able to dominate the TOP with a punishing ground game.

[casear2727]

(06-01-2022, 08:31 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: It may just be me, but I felt anytime we did play action there was almost someone in burrows face as soon as he got his head around.

This ^, we had no time to run effective PA.  Not to mention Burrow and Mixon are not close to Boomer and Brooks in selling that fake.

[fredtoast]

Nothing to prove this but I am guessing that we did not do well with play action because we needed the RB to either block or be a fifth receiver instead of taking a fake hand off.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(06-01-2022, 12:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: This is why I would sit there in complete bewilderment during the seemingly weekly "Put Burrow under center and run more play action" threads.

It's 'cause the majority of fans remember how successful we were with Boomer running PA and that, "one size fits all," when it comes to play style.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

For some reason, I can't quote posts this morning, but I'd say that's a pretty good guess Fred.