Was the play where Apple got faded by Kupp in the 4th a bad play by Apple?

[Housh]

I want to blame the coaches or Apple for this play but I’m starting to come to the conclusion it’s neither their faults.


At snap he’s right across from Cooper Kupp symmetrically. Smart move. He’s not tipping his hand either way. He’s showing straight up alignment. Kupp is going fade route here. Iv looked at his route 1000 times. It was not an option route where he could choose to go outside or inside. He was going outside fade no matter what.

When the Rams snap Apple shifts a step to his right just inviting the fade which is SMART. Then he doesn’t press which i think is utterly stupid. Then on top of not attack Kupp at the LOS or within the 5 yards he then doesn’t react quickly to Kupps break. Kupp didn’t make an elite move or an iconic difficult catch. He gave Apple a simple 1, 2 and beat him to a spot.


Iv racked my brain at what else Apple could’ve done and i keep coming to the conclusion that the only way he could’ve guarded it better was the be a Mind reader, 6 inches taller, or twice as fast.



Stafford threw it so quickly no way Apple could’ve looked back at the ball. Let’s say Apple takes away the outside fade, he’d a been allowing Kupp to slant inward where no one was helping. Any pass would’ve worked.



My other option is give safety help. We couldn’t do that either. We needed the run support help. It was 2nd and goal. We had to make sure we guarded the run. Man coverage was the only option

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Yep, sometimes, you just get beat by a good play.

[BigPapaKain]

You can do everything right and still lose.

Apple got drug through the mud over that one play, but he couldn't have played it better given the defensive call.

In all actuality the play should've never happened if not for that BS phantom call 3 plays earlier.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Yes, perfect play call, perfect throw, perfect catch. Nothing Apple could do about it honestly.

Just needed to block AD afterwards which Spain and company did not do.

[*pally*]

One of the best QBs in the NFL threw a pass to one of the best WRs in the NFL and scored a TD. Apple did his job he just got beat. It happens. It wasn't due to a screw up or lack of effort.

[fredtoast]

Most NFL offenses in that situation will score.

Until it gets to 4th down when running is an unlikely option the defense is just in a bad situation.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Putting Apple on Kupp 1-on-1 when Kupp had already been targeted 6 times on that drive is just a failure in coaching. Not an Apple fan in the slightest, but it's not his fault he can't shut down a 1900+ yard receiver 1-on-1, nobody should expect him to.

It's up there with asking Quinton Spain to block Aaron Donald 1-on-1. It's not Spain's fault he can't block Donald 1-on-1, it's a failure in coaching to not give help to stop the best defensive player in the NFL, let alone on a day where they have already allowed 7 sacks.

Had it on my sig for awhile there that when it came down to the final minutes of the SB, the Rams coaches believed in Cooper Kupp and Aaron Donald and the Bengals coaches believed in Eli Apple and Samaje Perine. That's the difference in coaches leading their teams to victory or defeat.

[Sled21]

(06-09-2022, 02:26 PM)pally Wrote: One of the best QBs in the NFL threw a pass to one of the best WRs in the NFL and scored a TD.  Apple did his job he just got beat.  It happens. It wasn't due to a screw up or lack of effort.

Just like Aaron Donald getting past Spain. Other teams have superstars that get paid too. Kupp and Donald are 2 of the premiere players in the league. When Geno used to blow through Centers and Guards, everyone talked about how great a player he was. When no one can stop Chase or Higgins, we all talk about how good Chase and Higgins are. When no one can block Aaron Donald or Cooper Kupp, everyone talks about how much Spain and Apple suck. 

[Housh]

(06-10-2022, 01:57 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Putting Apple on Kupp 1-on-1 when Kupp had already been targeted 6 times on that drive is just a failure in coaching. Not an Apple fan in the slightest, but it's not his fault he can't shut down a 1900+ yard receiver 1-on-1, nobody should expect him to.

It's up there with asking Quinton Spain to block Aaron Donald 1-on-1. It's not Spain's fault he can't block Donald 1-on-1, it's a failure in coaching to not give help to stop the best defensive player in the NFL, let alone on a day where they have already allowed 7 sacks.

Had it on my sig for awhile there that when it came down to the final minutes of the SB, the Rams coaches believed in Cooper Kupp and Aaron Donald and the Bengals coaches believed in Eli Apple and Samaje Perine. That's the difference in coaches leading their teams to victory or defeat.

Not getting Donald blocked up is a coaching failure. Donald should’ve been doubled with a RB in for extra blocking period. He’s that good.

[*Synric*]

Eli Apple bites on the double slant. If you see pre snap he takes a couple small steps inside. When Kupp fakes the Slant it leads Apple a little more inside giving him room to break to the outside front corner.

As for doubling Kupp that would have taken a guy out of the box near the goal line. Really it was a well set up play and an excellent fake and route by Kupp. Apple got set up pretty badly.

[Luvnit2]

The fact is Kupp is the highest paid WR in football. He beats the best every game. Chase is a great WR. Why don't fans chastise and call the CB's and safeties covering him weak?

The hypocrisy is alarming. I just ask fans to use common sense and be consistent. Chase beats the great CB's (yes he beat J. Ramsey 23 million a year cap hit) all day long in the Super Bowl, yet all I saw was praise for Chase and not a negative word on Ramsey.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Jerry Rice, Sterling Sharp, Steve Smith, and Cooper Kupp.

Only four WRs to achieve the triple crown for WRs since 1970.

[grampahol]

(06-10-2022, 12:39 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The fact is Kupp is the highest paid WR in football. He beats the best every game. Chase is a great WR. Why don't fans chastise and call the CB's and safeties covering him weak?

The hypocrisy is alarming. I just ask fans to use common sense and be consistent. Chase beats the great CB's (yes he beat J. Ramsey 23 million a year cap hit) all day long in the Super Bowl, yet all I saw was praise for Chase and not a negative word on Ramsey.

I'll do it..Damned you Ramsey for making life too easy for Chase.. Do it again the next time..  Feel better? 
Nobody plays to get beat..it just happens.. Apple had a darn good season for the most part. I'm glad he's still with the team. 

[KillerGoose]

(06-10-2022, 09:18 AM)Housh Wrote: Not getting Donald blocked up is a coaching failure. Donald should’ve been doubled with a RB in for extra blocking period. He’s that good.

The Bengals ran a little half slide to the left. The protection was set up for Spain and Hopkins to be available for Donald. However, Donald lined up wide, over Jonah. 



When the ball is snapped, Donald goes wide. It really becomes congested with the wide 9 rusher and Donald jamming up that left side. This also leaves Hopkins without a man, but in those situations, he has to stay there. He can't run over and try to do anything yet. You can tell he is watching that side though.



Hopkins notices that Spain is beat and tries to turn around and get back there but can't get there in time.



The Rams set Donald up to ensure that he had a 1-on-1 opportunity with the LG. Their mentality was probably that if a RB was kept in to block, they would take their chances on Donald vs. RB. For the playcall, the Bengals ran this play several times throughout the season. In the week 17 game against KC, the Bengals used this exact play and setup (I.E. Chase going deep) to score a TD in the second quarter, bringing the game to 21-14. They really liked this play, and they also hit Higgins on it as well. 

TL;DR - The Rams also had a good setup to really make it difficult to double team Donald. They were ensuring they had Donald vs. Spain. 

[Sled21]

(06-11-2022, 08:50 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Bengals ran a little half slide to the left. The protection was set up for Spain and Hopkins to be available for Donald. However, Donald lined up wide, over Jonah. 



When the ball is snapped, Donald goes wide. It really becomes congested with the wide 9 rusher and Donald jamming up that left side. This also leaves Hopkins without a man, but in those situations, he has to stay there. He can't run over and try to do anything yet. You can tell he is watching that side though.



Hopkins notices that Spain is beat and tries to turn around and get back there but can't get there in time.



The Rams set Donald up to ensure that he had a 1-on-1 opportunity with the LG. Their mentality was probably that if a RB was kept in to block, they would take their chances on Donald vs. RB. For the playcall, the Bengals ran this play several times throughout the season. In the week 17 game against KC, the Bengals used this exact play and setup (I.E. Chase going deep) to score a TD in the second quarter, bringing the game to 21-14. They really liked this play, and they also hit Higgins on it as well. 

TL;DR - The Rams also had a good setup to really make it difficult to double team Donald. They were ensuring they had Donald vs. Spain. 

Nice breakdown.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Yeah, well done KillerGoose. Excellent breakdown of that one damn play that still hurts.

[Housh]

(06-11-2022, 08:50 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Bengals ran a little half slide to the left. The protection was set up for Spain and Hopkins to be available for Donald. However, Donald lined up wide, over Jonah. 



When the ball is snapped, Donald goes wide. It really becomes congested with the wide 9 rusher and Donald jamming up that left side. This also leaves Hopkins without a man, but in those situations, he has to stay there. He can't run over and try to do anything yet. You can tell he is watching that side though.



Hopkins notices that Spain is beat and tries to turn around and get back there but can't get there in time.



The Rams set Donald up to ensure that he had a 1-on-1 opportunity with the LG. Their mentality was probably that if a RB was kept in to block, they would take their chances on Donald vs. RB. For the playcall, the Bengals ran this play several times throughout the season. In the week 17 game against KC, the Bengals used this exact play and setup (I.E. Chase going deep) to score a TD in the second quarter, bringing the game to 21-14. They really liked this play, and they also hit Higgins on it as well. 

TL;DR - The Rams also had a good setup to really make it difficult to double team Donald. They were ensuring they had Donald vs. Spain. 

I understand play design and all that but Hopkins cant be guarding air.


He should've got over there faster. Alex Mack isnt late here. Jeff Saturday isnt late here. ANY good C with any amount of confidence gets over there.

[*rfaulk34*]

A bit confused why no one has brought up Apple tipping the pass that Wison picked off against the Titans, which lead directly to the win. 

Moral of the story; sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-12-2022, 05:53 PM)Housh Wrote: I understand play design and all that but Hopkins cant be guarding air.


He should've got over there faster. Alex Mack isnt late here. Jeff Saturday isnt late here. ANY good C with any amount of confidence gets over there.

But Hopkins can't assume that Donald is going to beat Spain that quick and simply run over there after the snap, leaving the middle wide open. 

[casear2727]

(06-10-2022, 01:57 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Putting Apple on Kupp 1-on-1 when Kupp had already been targeted 6 times on that drive is just a failure in coaching. Not an Apple fan in the slightest, but it's not his fault he can't shut down a 1900+ yard receiver 1-on-1, nobody should expect him to.

It's up there with asking Quinton Spain to block Aaron Donald 1-on-1. It's not Spain's fault he can't block Donald 1-on-1, it's a failure in coaching to not give help to stop the best defensive player in the NFL, let alone on a day where they have already allowed 7 sacks.

Had it on my sig for awhile there that when it came down to the final minutes of the SB, the Rams coaches believed in Cooper Kupp and Aaron Donald and the Bengals coaches believed in Eli Apple and Samaje Perine. That's the difference in coaches leading their teams to victory or defeat.

I agree that Kupp should have been doubled the last drive, no reason not to....

I disagree on Spain, at least the very last play.  He was given help, all he had to do was step to his left and not totally whiff, his help was inside.  A little bit of effort to move to his left would had forced AD into Hopkins. Terrible play on his part.