Indefinite Suspension? - Watson

[Au165]

(06-29-2022, 12:13 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: OK Thanks for clarifying. Then I hope he gets suspended for 11 games. This way he gets credit for an accrued season and his contract ends after 2026 so the bonus money rolled over the life of the contract starts counting in 2022.

In order to accrue a season, a player must have been on (or should have been on*) full-play status for at least six regular-season games in a given season. A player under contract must report to his team's training camp on his mandatory reporting date in order to earn an accrued season.Mar 12, 2021

I actually hope he does get suspended the whole season and here is why, it will piss Watson off. He never agreed to the 1 million salary to actually play a full season he did it full well expecting to get suspended around half the season. If he goes into next season and is set to play on a $1 million dollar salary that will create internal issues as I am guessing he will want his contract reworked, the Browns having just gotten screwed may not be interested in doing so.

Long story short, I am here for the drama a full year suspension creates next year.

[Sled21]

(06-28-2022, 04:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: She said the first time he touched her she objected and he never did it again.

She admits that she did not even tell his she was "offended".

She admits that he did not use any force or coercion.

She admits that she never went to law enforcement or tried to warn any other women in her profession of the problem with Watson until AFTER she filed a civil lawsuit.





Just me and two separate grand juries that heard the evidence first hand.

Are you just purposely forgetting about the allegation he forced a woman to perform oral sex on him? And you know the deal with Grand Juries and the burden of evidence required for a court case. 

[Sled21]

(06-29-2022, 09:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree that it looks like Watson will get at least a full year suspension.

The problem I have is that so many people refuse to acknowledge the REALITY of the situation.  The fact is that many women who give private massage also provide sexual services.  Men are not to blame for this.  Watson is not to blame for this.  He used no force.  He used no drugs.  When the women said stop he stopped.

These women who provide private massage who act like they are disabled for life and can never work again because a man propositioned them are full of shit.  EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE WOMEN who charged Watson knew about how some women who do what they do also provide sexual services.  They knew it before they ever went to any private residence to give a massage to a stranger.  It is an unfortunate part of their job, but to claim that they were so shocked that they could not move or think when a customer propositioned them is ridiculous.

Robert Kraft did the exact same thing as Watson and no one claimed he should be barred for life from the NFL.  But he was just a horny rich white man instead of a "sexual predator".

You seem to be linking all women who give massages in the same basket. There are women who work in "those" massage parlors, and they are the one's that get raided by the cops for prostitution. There are also women who give massages who are totally legit and wouldn't think of selling sex. They are not the same groups, quit trying to link them.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-28-2022, 04:57 PM)ATOTR Wrote: Yeah, ill just block him.  I dont want to get any dumber than I already am. 

Completely understand. You can lower your IQ talking to some people lol

[WeezyBengal]

(06-29-2022, 09:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree that it looks like Watson will get at least a full year suspension.

The problem I have is that so many people refuse to acknowledge the REALITY of the situation.  The fact is that many women who give private massage also provide sexual services.  Men are not to blame for this.  Watson is not to blame for this.  He used no force.  He used no drugs.  When the women said stop he stopped.

These women who provide private massage who act like they are disabled for life and can never work again because a man propositioned them are full of shit.  EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE WOMEN who charged Watson knew about how some women who do what they do also provide sexual services.  They knew it before they ever went to any private residence to give a massage to a stranger.  It is an unfortunate part of their job, but to claim that they were so shocked that they could not move or think when a customer propositioned them is ridiculous.

Robert Kraft did the exact same thing as Watson and no one claimed he should be barred for life from the NFL.  But he was just a horny rich white man instead of a "sexual predator".

It isn't the same at all. The acts between Kraft and the masseuse were mutual. It was an act or prostitution. Still not right, but still not the same. 

The acts between Watson and his masseuse(s) were not mutual - they had no intention of handing out sexual favors and he forced the matter or exposed himself.

Is this really that hard to understand? 

[BobJones4980]

(06-29-2022, 05:34 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It isn't the same at all. The acts between Kraft and the masseuse were mutual. It was an act or prostitution. Still not right, but still not the same. 

The acts between Watson and his masseuse(s) were not mutual - they had no intention of handing out sexual favors and he forced the matter or exposed himself.

Is this really that hard to understand? 

Fred's just the creepy old dude living in the past that thinks masturbating in front of strangers and/or forcing oral sex is "fine" because these women know that a minority of massage therapist perform sex acts for money. Basically it's their fault for going into that profession right? 

I imagine he believes Cosby did nothing wrong either and the line of women making those accusations were adults who couldn't handle their liquor. 

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2022, 01:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You seem to be linking all women who give massages in the same basket. There are women who work in "those" massage parlors, and they are the one's that get raided by the cops for prostitution. There are also women who give massages who are totally legit and wouldn't think of selling sex. They are not the same groups, quit trying to link them.

I never said that all massage therapists were sex workers.  All I am saying is that that everyone knows that some of these women are.  in fact women who want to become licensed massage therapists receive training on how to deal with this issue.

So I am pretty sure that Watson has hired women for "massage" that showed up ready and willing to have sex with him.  Do any of you disagree with that?  

Does that mean he can rape other women?  No.  But there are a lot of little issue that bother me about this case.

I know a lot about rape.  I have dealt with in-depth evidence on multiple rape cases over the last 22 years, and in a good majority of them a rape of some sort did occur.  So I see things that other people miss.

First of all there are lots of reasons why a lot of women don't report a rape immediately.  Unfortunately no matter if the victim did anything wrong or not there is always a fear of judgement at some level for poor decisions on their part.  But in these cases these women did not go to his house on any social pretext.  They should all have had proof that they had been hired for a therapeutic massage and showed up in professional attire.  And the biggest point is that these women are trained to report this activity in order to protect other women from being victimized. 

So here is my theory on what happened.  Watson was a knucklehead.  Some of these women were glad to have sex with him.  If he had just played it cool with the women who did not seem eager then he probably would not have gotten in any trouble.  But when a woman says she does not want to touch your junk that means "put it away" and not "I won't touch it but I don't mind you squirting one out on me."

He s a dumbass that needs to be punished.  But as a person who sees a lot of crime first hand I really do see a BIG difference between flashing your wiener at a girl and rape.

**EDIT** Just to respond to the claims of "forced oral sex" I believe there were no allegations of threats of physical force but just "speaking in a forceful manner", and that alone is usually not enough to meet a legal standard. I have not seen the complete statement but form the selective editing of quotes I see in most of the stories I believe that was her claim.

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2022, 05:34 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It isn't the same at all. The acts between Kraft and the masseuse were mutual. It was an act or prostitution. Still not right, but still not the same. 

The acts between Watson and his masseuse(s) were not mutual - they had no intention of handing out sexual favors and he forced the matter or exposed himself.

Is this really that hard to understand? 

You are correct Weezy.  That is a distinction.  

Kraft was smart enough to put it away immediately if they ever said "no". Watson was a dumbass who probably though no woman could resist him.   

[kevin]

The Browns have two problem players in Hunt and Watson. The Bengals went down this road of having a bunch of off field problem players, and The Bengals were losers with these type of knuckleheads on the team. So I'm glad it is now The Browns who are loaded with knuckleheads and The Bengals seem to have got it together with quality people ON and OFF the field and a Super Bowl Team again.

[WeezyBengal]

(06-30-2022, 05:36 AM)kevin Wrote: The Browns have two problem players in Hunt and Watson.  The Bengals went down this road of having a bunch of off field problem players, and The Bengals were losers with these type of knuckleheads on the team.  So I'm glad it is now The Browns who are loaded with knuckleheads and The Bengals seem to have got it together with quality people ON and OFF the field and a Super Bowl Team again.

To be fair it seems like Hunt has cleaned himself up - ala Joe Mixon. Guys can admit they were wrong, serve their time or punishment, and change themselves. That is fair. Watson on the other hand won't admit he did anything wrong (although he settled a bunch of lawsuits which is a sign you did do something wrong) and won't apologize.  

[Burreaux]

Watson should never play another down in the NFL again. I understand making a mistake and giving a guy another chance but 25 cases against him? He’s a sexual predator and deserves to serve prison time. Look at R Kelly, he got away with it for years just because of who he was. Celebrities should have to abide by the same law as us poor folks. It has nothing to do with my hatred of the Browns. If the Bengals would’ve picked up a guy like Watson they’d lose this loyal fan of nearly 40 years.

[wanga]

Browns would have to be shitting themselves. Watson is obviously a grub. At best.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-30-2022, 09:43 PM)Burreaux Wrote: Watson should never play another down in the NFL again. I understand making a mistake and giving a guy another chance but 25 cases against him? He’s a sexual predator and deserves to serve prison time. Look at R Kelly, he got away with it for years just because of who he was. Celebrities should have to abide by the same law as us poor folks. It has nothing to do with my hatred of the Browns. If the Bengals would’ve picked up a guy like Watson they’d lose this loyal fan of nearly 40 years.

I agree Burreaux. Dude has problems. That was some weird shit he was doing and I LOVE BABES!!!

But I at least respect them, who knows what other problems this guy has if he is doing those things...

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-30-2022, 09:43 PM)Burreaux Wrote: Watson should never play another down in the NFL again. I understand making a mistake and giving a guy another chance but 25 cases against him? He’s a sexual predator and deserves to serve prison time. Look at R Kelly, he got away with it for years just because of who he was. Celebrities should have to abide by the same law as us poor folks. It has nothing to do with my hatred of the Browns. If the Bengals would’ve picked up a guy like Watson they’d lose this loyal fan of nearly 40 years.

I think he should be suspended, but two separate grand juries declined to even indict him. Calling for prison time as an outside observer when two different groups of 12 people were provided an entire case by a prosecutor and didn't think it warranted even going to trial is a bit of an iffy practice. You say you want celebrities to abide by the same law, but then also want him to get prison time despite two grand juries saying he didn't even warrant a criminal trial.

He's questionable AF as a person, don't get me wrong, and I am not Fredding this thread, but the whole prison demand feels a little... iffy.

[J24]

(06-30-2022, 09:43 PM)Burreaux Wrote: Watson should never play another down in the NFL again. I understand making a mistake and giving a guy another chance but 25 cases against him? He’s a sexual predator and deserves to serve prison time. Look at R Kelly, he got away with it for years just because of who he was. Celebrities should have to abide by the same law as us poor folks. It has nothing to do with my hatred of the Browns. If the Bengals would’ve picked up a guy like Watson they’d lose this loyal fan of nearly 40 years.

Didn't R Kelly  get convicted of a crime? Watson wasn't even put to trial; Look I don't know what Watson did or didn't do but to end a man's career over a bunch of Allegations would be a dangerous precedent for future cases.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-01-2022, 08:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think he should be suspended, but two separate grand juries declined to even indict him. Calling for prison time as an outside observer when two different groups of 12 people were provided an entire case by a prosecutor and didn't think it warranted even going to trial is a bit of an iffy practice. You say you want celebrities to abide by the same law, but then also want him to get prison time despite two grand juries saying he didn't even warrant a criminal trial.

He's questionable AF as a person, don't get me wrong, and I am not Fredding this thread, but the whole prison demand feels a little... iffy.

Great points, I agree with you TLL. I don't want to be THAT extreme. Thanks for helping me to see the light on this.

Maybe I am just bias against the guy cause he is on the Stains? 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-01-2022, 09:00 PM)J24 Wrote: Didn't R Kelly  get convicted of a crime? Watson wasn't even put to trial; Look I don't know what Watson did or didn't do but to end a man's career over a bunch of Allegations would be a dangerous precedent for future cases.

There were videos of R Kelly too, so evidence. Surprised there are no vids of Watson the weirdo...

[Stewy]

(07-01-2022, 09:00 PM)J24 Wrote: Didn't R Kelly  get convicted of a crime? Watson wasn't even put to trial; Look I don't know what Watson did or didn't do but to end a man's career over a bunch of Allegations would be a dangerous precedent for future cases.

(07-02-2022, 12:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: There were videos of R Kelly too, so evidence. Surprised there are no vids of Watson the weirdo...

It's not about the court of law.  It's about the personal conduct policy that players MUST abide by according to their unionized contracts.  The burden of proof is entirely different, so we really need to forget the courts and burden of proof.  The NFL has had professional investigators digging into these allegations for 15+ months and they presented their case.  "Where there is smoke, there is fire" is plenty for "burden of proof" in this non court non-criminal circumstance. 

Being from Houston and getting all angles of this for months let me tell you what I think based on the local media and hte SI.com article detailing a lot of this information.

#1 - There is a 99.9% chance that there are call girls operating as message therapists, that can be scheduled from Craig's List.  Many of them work for legitimate services to hide their real activities.  But not therapists are call girls.

#2 - Watson Hired multitudes of therapists local and in other cities from Craig's List and apparently he liked strange and didn't go back to the ones that were "cooperative"

#3 - Watson would approach massage therapists that he liked the looks of from the same companies without knowing they were call girls or not.  Because they weren't all call girls, his desired activities were sometimes rebuffed, thus 26 law suits.

His attitude is that of an addict.  He cared not in the end whether his victims were receptive or not.  The NFL is not stupid, this is not thick smoke.  It is very easy to see through, and Watson is a huge embarrassment to the league.  If not for the arbitration process (that I did not know about until the last couple weeks), the league would suspend him indefinitely - guaranteed.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-02-2022, 12:55 PM)Stewy Wrote: It's not about the court of law.  It's about the personal conduct policy that players MUST abide by according to their unionized contracts.  The burden of proof is entirely different, so we really need to forget the courts and burden of proof.  The NFL has had professional investigators digging into these allegations for 15+ months and they presented their case.  "Where there is smoke, there is fire" is plenty for "burden of proof" in this non court non-criminal circumstance. 

Being from Houston and getting all angles of this for months let me tell you what I think based on the local media and hte SI.com article detailing a lot of this information.

#1 - There is a 99.9% chance that there are call girls operating as message therapists, that can be scheduled from Craig's List.  Many of them work for legitimate services to hide their real activities.  But not therapists are call girls.

#2 - Watson Hired multitudes of therapists local and in other cities from Craig's List and apparently he liked strange and didn't go back to the ones that were "cooperative"

#3 - Watson would approach massage therapists that he liked the looks of from the same companies without knowing they were call girls or not.  Because they weren't all call girls, his desired activities were sometimes rebuffed, thus 26 law suits.

His attitude is that of an addict.  He cared not in the end whether his victims were receptive or not.  The NFL is not stupid, this is not thick smoke.  It is very easy to see through, and Watson is a huge embarrassment to the league.  If not for the arbitration process (that I did not know about until the last couple weeks), the league would suspend him indefinitely - guaranteed.

Thanks Stewy. You know a hell of a lot more about all this than I do. Appreciate it.

[kalibengal]

(07-02-2022, 01:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks Stewy. You know a hell of a lot more about all this than I do. Appreciate it.

I just read something that said after meetings this week, its looking good for him and maybe to only miss 6 to 8 games as his attorneys are comparing the sentences for Kraft and Ben Rothlisberger to what he should be receiving.