OBJ

[Frank Booth]

(06-30-2022, 04:04 PM)Whatever Wrote: He had the 2nd most yards from scrimmage for the Rams and scored a TD in a game decided by a FG.

that game was decided in the 3rd and 4th quarters

remind me, was he playing those quarters?

[Whatever]

(06-30-2022, 04:05 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that game was decided in the 3rd and 4th quarters

remind me, was he playing those quarters?

I was unaware that they just cleared the scoreboard at halftime and started 0-0 in the 2nd half.

[Frank Booth]

(06-30-2022, 04:28 PM)Whatever Wrote: I was unaware that they just cleared the scoreboard at halftime and started 0-0 in the 2nd half.

...well I mean rams had 3 point lead going into half time

so it was basically 3-0 to start the 2nd half

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-30-2022, 12:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: You realize OBJ had a higher Catch %(80.8%) and Yards per Target(11.08) than Higgins(60%/10.3) and Boyd(75%/5.5) in the playoffs, right?  It's accurate to say the only reason Tee had more yards than OBJ is he had more targets and totally incorrect to argue that the only reason OBJ had more yards than Boyd.  If Boyd had gotten OBJ's targets, he'd still be at less than half OBJ's yardage.  Bottom line, OBJ was more productive than Higgins and Boyd last year in the playoffs with his targets.  

As far as regular season stats go, I really couldn't care less in regards to this discussion.  OBJ will miss most of the regular season, anyways.  This is a move you make to try and put us over the top in the playoffs, not the regular season.  I wouldn't care if they say OBJ the entire regular season and busted him out for the playoffs.

I would expect Tee to be the primary WR2, but that can change based on matchups.  We know Tee suffered damage to his labrum when he dislocated his shoulder early in the year.  We don't know the extent of that damage and to what extent it may have hampered him.  It's highly unlikely that it was a complete tear given that he was able to continue playing at a high level.  It seems more likely it was a partial and could simply be a situation where he either reaggravated it in the playoffs or it wasn't responding like they wanted to PT.  Some go over the top on this and act like he was a one armed man out there and it isn't the case.  However, keep in mind that there is a very high risk of reinjury with shoulder injuries like this and Higgins will be eligible for an extension next off-season.  If he suffers any kind of injury where surgery may be necessary, he has a business decision to make and that needs to be in the back of people's heads when talking WR depth 

One really eye opening thing about this discussion is just how bad Tyler Boyd was in the playoffs.  110 yards on 20 targets is brutally bad.  He got a little crap on here for his drop in the SB and his inability to make a block on what would have been a Chase TD, but he sucked all postseason.  A healthy OBJ would definitely beat out Boyd as a WR3 for the playoffs.  Boyd has returned punts in the past, so he could get some touches there.

The other thing people are overlooking is OBJ can play outside or in the slot.  Boyd is only effective in the slot.  Having that flexibility means you can move Chase and Tee into the slot to potentially take advantage of matchups while being able to have a viable threat on the outside.  

We can talk about OBJ's personality all we want.  Bottom line is, he's got a ring and we don't.  He knows the WR situation here.  If he still wants to come here, then he's certainly accepted that he won't be the WR1 and there's going to be competition for targets.  He's also likely on a one year deal and wouldn't gain anything from trying to force his way out.  Another reality is that if we pass on him, he may very well be lined up against us in the playoffs and the guy had a pretty big part in the Rams beating us last year.

And every time you keep going back to a sample size of 4 games while ignoring the multiple years worth before. Cool, he caught 80% in a 4 game span, but he caught 54.7% in a 37 game span prior to that. Which do you think is closer to reality for him going forward?

As far as regular season stats go, you don't care, but that is what will get you to the playoffs. The AFCN was the weakest it has probably ever been last year and the Bengals won the division by 1/2 of a game. Don't be counting your playoff chickens before the regular season eggs have hatched. You need to get there first and without regular season stats, you don't get to play those games. OBJ won't be gone the entire season, and when he comes back, he's going to want snaps and he's going to want serious targets. If he doesn't get those, he'll be a problem and a distraction.

Bottom line, a lot of guys have a ring that the Bengals don't have but aren't a good addition. Rapistburger has two rings, doesn't mean we want to add him. Antonio Brown has a ring, doesn't mean we want to add him. 

You said "people are overlooking" but I literally said that Boyd fills a different role in the post that you quoted, then you proceeded to tell me that while also saying he would beat out Boyd. OBJ and Boyd aren't competing for snaps, OBJ would be competing with Chase and Higgins on the outside and he loses both of those battles in skill, production, and personality. You can't just randomly move Chase or Higgins into the slot and expect them to be the same players there.

You say he "knows the WR situation here" but his ego might honestly believe that he'll just be the big dog when he comes here, which is just not happening. We saw it with the Rams last year when Desean Jackson forced his way off the Rams due to lack of targets despite knowing the WR situation when he came there. Divas gonna diva.

Your plan involves moving a great outside WR into the slot where he may or may not be good, and then making a great slot receiver a punt returner, just so you can bring in a 30-year-old with a torn ACL and an iffy personality. That's a stupid plan.

[KillerGoose]

(06-30-2022, 04:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You can't just randomly move Chase or Higgins into the slot and expect them to be the same players there.

I read your whole post, but wanted to hone in on this - Chase did play quite a bit in the slot last season, and was very productive there. If I remember correctly, he was our most efficient WR on something like 30%-40% of his routes coming from the slot. My PFF sub expired, but they track that data. I might be misremembering some of this, so take it with a grain of salt. 

That isn't to refute the entirety of your post, I just wanted to point out that Chase proved himself to be very valuable from the slot last season.

[Whatever]

(06-30-2022, 04:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And every time you keep going back to a sample size of 4 games while ignoring the multiple years worth before. Cool, he caught 80% in a 4 game span, but he caught 54.7% in a 37 game span prior to that. Which do you think is closer to reality for him going forward?

As far as regular season stats go, you don't care, but that is what will get you to the playoffs. The AFCN was the weakest it has probably ever been last year and the Bengals won the division by 1/2 of a game. Don't be counting your playoff chickens before the regular season eggs have hatched. You need to get there first and without regular season stats, you don't get to play those games. OBJ won't be gone the entire season, and when he comes back, he's going to want snaps and he's going to want serious targets. If he doesn't get those, he'll be a problem and a distraction.

Bottom line, a lot of guys have a ring that the Bengals don't have but aren't a good addition. Rapistburger has two rings, doesn't mean we want to add him. Antonio Brown has a ring, doesn't mean we want to add him. 

You said "people are overlooking" but I literally said that Boyd fills a different role in the post that you quoted, then you proceeded to tell me that while also saying he would beat out Boyd. OBJ and Boyd aren't competing for snaps, OBJ would be competing with Chase and Higgins on the outside and he loses both of those battles in skill, production, and personality. You can't just randomly move Chase or Higgins into the slot and expect them to be the same players there.

You say he "knows the WR situation here" but his ego might honestly believe that he'll just be the big dog when he comes here, which is just not happening. We saw it with the Rams last year when Desean Jackson forced his way off the Rams due to lack of targets despite knowing the WR situation when he came there. Divas gonna diva.

Your plan involves moving a great outside WR into the slot where he may or may not be good, and then making a great slot receiver a punt returner, just so you can bring in a 30-year-old with a torn ACL and an iffy personality. That's a stupid plan.

I am focused on the playoffs because playoff football is much different than regular season football.  Look at Marvin Lewis's tenure as HC or the absolute poundings Joe Burrow took at the hands of the Rams and Titans if you need more proof of that.  As I said, I'm looking for pieces that will put us over the top in the playoffs to win a Super Bowl.  

So what is your argument, exactly?  Are you saying that the Bengals will be on the outside looking into the playoffs if we don't sign anybody else?  Are you saying we aren't even a Top 7 team in the AFC on paper and need to sign more guys to make the playoffs?  Are you saying Chase, Higgins, and Boyd can't carry the load for OBJ in the regular season?  If so, that's all the more reason to bring in OBJ.

News flash, the Browns are in disarray and don't have a QB and the Steelers have Mitch Trubisky.  The AFCN is weaker this year on paper than it was last year.  Sure, you can argue the first place schedule, but let's see how Tyler Boyd fared against playoff teams in the regular season last year...

Steelers=4 catches on 6 targets, 36 yards.
Packers=4 catches on 5 targets, 24 yards
Raiders=6 catches on 8 targets, 49 yards
Steelers=2 catches on 2 targets, 15 yards
49'ers=4 catches on 5 targets, 55 yards
Chiefs=4 catches on 6 targets, 36 yards

See the pattern there with the playoffs?  Boyd does not play well against top teams.  

I missed the part where OBJ was a serial rapist or clinically insane.  I also haven't heard about him cold cocking any girls while he was in college.  You want a SB win or choir boys?  I assume you were vehemently against the La'el Collins signing, then.  

You realize LSU used Chase(as well as Justin Jefferson) in the slot as well as outside?  You also realize OBJ also saw a good deal of time in the slot when he was with the Giants, right?  Seriously, this is an uneducated take.  Go back and watch the infamous "Chase is on the Case" play and look where he lines up.  Also check out OBJ's TD in the SB and look at where he lines up.  Seriously, you're trying to vaguely argue Boyd was "used differently," but don't even know enough about WR usage to know Chase and OBJ are not purely outside WR's.

My plan is to allow the offense greater flexibility to take advantage of defensive match ups and get it's biggest playmaker the ball in space by swapping out a slot WR for a guy who can line up inside or outside and greatly improve our WR depth in the process.  Your plan appears to be trips through fantasy land, praying this year's Golden Binns winner can actually come through if his number gets called, and excuse making for a guy who repeatedly disappeared in big games last year simply because you don't seem to like a potential upgrade.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-30-2022, 08:46 PM)Whatever Wrote: I am focused on the playoffs because playoff football is much different than regular season football.  Look at Marvin Lewis's tenure as HC or the absolute poundings Joe Burrow took at the hands of the Rams and Titans if you need more proof of that.  As I said, I'm looking for pieces that will put us over the top in the playoffs to win a Super Bowl.  

So what is your argument, exactly?  Are you saying that the Bengals will be on the outside looking into the playoffs if we don't sign anybody else?  Are you saying we aren't even a Top 7 team in the AFC on paper and need to sign more guys to make the playoffs?  Are you saying Chase, Higgins, and Boyd can't carry the load for OBJ in the regular season?  If so, that's all the more reason to bring in OBJ.

News flash, the Browns are in disarray and don't have a QB and the Steelers have Mitch Trubisky.  The AFCN is weaker this year on paper than it was last year.  Sure, you can argue the first place schedule, but let's see how Tyler Boyd fared against playoff teams in the regular season last year...

Steelers=4 catches on 6 targets, 36 yards.
Packers=4 catches on 5 targets, 24 yards
Raiders=6 catches on 8 targets, 49 yards
Steelers=2 catches on 2 targets, 15 yards
49'ers=4 catches on 5 targets, 55 yards
Chiefs=4 catches on 6 targets, 36 yards

See the pattern there with the playoffs?  Boyd does not play well against top teams.  

I missed the part where OBJ was a serial rapist or clinically insane.  I also haven't heard about him cold cocking any girls while he was in college.  You want a SB win or choir boys?  I assume you were vehemently against the La'el Collins signing, then.  

You realize LSU used Chase(as well as Justin Jefferson) in the slot as well as outside?  You also realize OBJ also saw a good deal of time in the slot when he was with the Giants, right?  Seriously, this is an uneducated take.  Go back and watch the infamous "Chase is on the Case" play and look where he lines up.  Also check out OBJ's TD in the SB and look at where he lines up.  Seriously, you're trying to vaguely argue Boyd was "used differently," but don't even know enough about WR usage to know Chase and OBJ are not purely outside WR's.

My plan is to allow the offense greater flexibility to take advantage of defensive match ups and get it's biggest playmaker the ball in space by swapping out a slot WR for a guy who can line up inside or outside and greatly improve our WR depth in the process.  Your plan appears to be trips through fantasy land, praying this year's Golden Binns winner can actually come through if his number gets called, and excuse making for a guy who repeatedly disappeared in big games last year simply because you don't seem to like a potential upgrade.

You don't change the very best thing about your offense last year. You get Chase on 1-on-1 situations outside and he Mosses a guy for a TD. Has Chase played some slot? Yes. Is he a game changer on the outside? Yes. 





As for OBJ in the playoffs, the previous time his team made the playoffs he was hurt (sound familiar?) and the time before that he had 4 catches on 11 targets (36.4%) for 28 yards. So yes, it is JUST a 4 game sample size. He's not shown consistently he's some magical game changer in the playoffs. Benson had a 169 rushing yard playoff game at 8.0 yards per carry in 2009, that doesn't change the fact that in the 2010 season he had 3.5 yards per carry and in the 2011 playoffs he had 7 carries for 14 yards. One single playoff run doesn't change the reality of a player. The player is still who they are.

You listed Boyd against playoff teams last year but forgot to mention in 3 of those the Bengals absolutely blew out the teams (Steelers x2, Raiders) so Burrow threw for 190 yards or less in all three of them because they won them 97-33.

I want a team that won't implode on itself due to locker room and social media BS. OBJ doesn't have a good record of that when he's with a team for any length of time.

You talking about fantasy land and golden binns winners just tells me that you're not even reading my posts. I've long been vocal this entire offseason that they need to bring in a quality 4th WR to replace all the snaps given to PS guys who aren't worth a damn, but the key part of that is they need a 4th WR, not a injured diva who thinks he's better than he is. Chase will be even better this year and get even more targets, Higgins will be even better this year and get even more targets, Boyd will be rocksteady, and they just need a solid guy who will be productive and not rock the boat as the 4th WR while also being healthy. 

Not a 30-year-old guy who has missed 27 games and forced his way off 2 teams in the last 5 years.
https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/odell-beckham-jr/6942

The Bengals have to play a 1st place schedule this year. They currently have the 3rd highest SoS for 2022. Tons of talent poured into the AFC this offseason. A healthy Jacoby Brissett is better than a humpty dumpty Mayfield, the Ravens will presumably not have their entire roster hurt again, Trubisky is a joke but they had the bloated corpse of Rapistburger last year and still won 9.5 games. 

Focus on getting to the playoffs first so we don't look like a bunch of assholes like the Colts did last year. They need a 4th WR upgrade who will actually play and contribute in the regular season while not being a problem.

Anyway, I am done with you man, you're starting to go personal more than I have tolerance for, have a good holiday weekend.

[Whatever]

(06-30-2022, 04:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Your plan involves moving a great outside WR into the slot where he may or may not be good, and then making a great slot receiver a punt returner, just so you can bring in a 30-year-old with a torn ACL and an iffy personality. That's a stupid plan.

(06-30-2022, 09:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Anyway, I am done with you man, you're starting to go personal more than I have tolerance for, have a good holiday weekend.

If you to end the discussion, that's fine, but don't borderline personally attack another poster and then claim they are starting to get too personal as your reason for dipping.  Treat other people the way you expect them to treat you.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Good job guys ending the argument civil. Proud of you boys.

[Tony]

(07-01-2022, 11:39 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good job guys ending the argument civil. Proud of you boys.

Meh, keep fighting....

[Housh]

This dude is taking his time isn’t he? Lol


Probably has a lot of teams interested

[Savagehenry54]

(06-30-2022, 06:12 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I think it would be fine. When OBJ went to the Browns he was THE GUY, when he went to the Rams he was A PIECE as Robert Woods was their number 2 behind Kupp before he got hurt. OBJ would have been their number three and went there just fine.

He seems to have a lot of respect of Joey B. I have a feeling if he came here, he wouldn’t be quite the distraction everyone thinks he would be.

If he wants a 1 year deal where he can heal early and make an impact late, no better place to do it than here. Ya’ll did this last year before we drafted Chase- “we don’t need another WR, we have Higgins and Boyd” was said over and over and over.

There is absolutely no depth behind our top three. If he comes here on a 1 year deal he immediately bolsters that when healthy, and can still make plays of a top WR.

Feels weird to say but I feel like this lockerrom is the type that can take a chance on a guy like obj and not miss a beat if it don't work out.  So it's worth a shot imo.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

We can like Boyd and still want Beckham those 2 statements aren't exactly mutual exclusive. Boyd's numbers suffer because he is the 3rd option on many plays and with our crappy line last year Burrow never had time to really go through his progressions which is what made last seasons team that much more remarkable. the number 4 receiver is a bit of an eye sore. We may have the worst number 4 in the entire NFL.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-03-2022, 01:10 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: We can like Boyd and still want Beckham those 2 statements aren't exactly mutual exclusive. Boyd's numbers suffer because he is the 3rd option on many plays and with our crappy line last year Burrow never had time to really go through his progressions which is what made last seasons team that much more remarkable. the number 4 receiver is a bit of an eye sore. We may have the worst number 4 in the entire NFL.

We will see if we go after a WR after cuts. 

I just don't think OBJ fits here at all, we will want someone who doesn't have his problems, injuries and selfishness are both of 
the reasons we won't bring in OBJ. Stanley Morgan and Kwame Lassiter might make your last sentence untrue, we will see.

[samhain]

(07-02-2022, 07:54 PM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Feels weird to say but I feel like this lockerrom is the type that can take a chance on a guy like obj and not miss a beat if it don't work out.  So it's worth a shot imo.

Agree.  

If he shows his ass, the team can cut bait whenever they want.  He's more of a luxury than a need.  It would hurt OBJ more than the Bengals if it went south.  Throwing Mayfield under the bus is not something that people have a hard time digesting.  Joey B would be a different story.  His leadership is thus far beyond reproach.

[QueenCity]

I'd take OBJ as mentioned we are extremely thin after our top 3 WR go down.

OBJ respects Burrow he won't cause issues.... our QB isn't the corpse of Eli Manning or Trash Baker. Tom Brady has a history of bringing in WR that were drama and had success. AB is beyond crazy so can't fault Tom there.

[Luvnit2]

OBJ is 10+ million dollar receiver. No way he plays for us unless we trade Boyd. I see little to no chance OBJ playing with us in 2022. Just a pipe dream for some fans.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-03-2022, 03:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We will see if we go after a WR after cuts. 

I just don't think OBJ fits here at all, we will want someone who doesn't have his problems, injuries and selfishness are both of 
the reasons we won't bring in OBJ. Stanley Morgan and Kwame Lassiter might make your last sentence untrue, we will see.

Stanley Morgan has 5 catches on 14 targets for 29 yards (5.8 avg) in his 3 year career. He is why that sentence IS true, Nate.

Lassiter is just the next in line of a long line of UDFA hype guys who do nothing for the Bengals. They need to find an actual WR4 somewhere. Hopefully, as you said, after cuts.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-03-2022, 11:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Stanley Morgan has 5 catches on 14 targets for 29 yards (5.8 avg) in his 3 year career. He is why that sentence IS true, Nate.

Lassiter is just the next in line of a long line of UDFA hype guys who do nothing for the Bengals. They need to find an actual WR4 somewhere. Hopefully, as you said, after cuts.

Cannot disagree brother. I like both of these guys as Special Team's guys but they probably offer nothing on Offense besides
Morgan being a great blocker and Lassiter a good Punt Return man. Hoping we get a good 4th WR after cuts like we say.