Bates - No Intentions Reporting to Camp or Play on Tag

[samhain]

Doubt it, but I wonder of they could get an actual contributing player in exchange for him. This is a win-now roster, and I'm not opposed to stacking it if the opportunity presents itself.

[Au165]

(07-15-2022, 06:23 PM)samhain Wrote: Doubt it, but I wonder of they could get an actual contributing player in exchange for him. This is a win-now roster, and I'm not opposed to stacking it if the opportunity presents itself.

No, the Texans got a bag of hammers for Clowney. You’d be looking at a role player or a 2023 pick.

The Bengals should probably just give him an assurance they won’t tag him next year to get him into camp and be done.

[ATOTR]

(07-15-2022, 06:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, the Texans got a bag of hammers for Clowney. You’d be looking at a role player or a 2023 pick.

The Bengals should probably just give him an assurance they won’t tag him next year to get him into camp and be done.

That’s not the worst idea.

They could even sign a contract stipulating he could void a second franchise tag or something to legally cover

Imaging having 12m on the table. And the best team going into a season of your career. And choosing to sit out and sulk

[*Synric*]

(07-15-2022, 06:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, the Texans got a bag of hammers for Clowney. You’d be looking at a role player or a 2023 pick.

The Bengals should probably just give him an assurance they won’t tag him next year to get him into camp and be done.

It really is the best idea for him to play. 

The secondary is built around him and most of them will be going into year 2 in the system. He could really boost is stock while doubling his earned money from the NFL. 

[*bfine32*]

(07-15-2022, 06:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, the Texans got a bag of hammers for Clowney. You’d be looking at a role player or a 2023 pick.

The Bengals should probably just give him an assurance they won’t tag him next year to get him into camp and be done.

The Bengals should do no such thing. The tail doesn't wag the dog. 

[PDub80]

Here's an interesting spin off discussion to put Bates III not getting as much as HE wanted from the Bengals...


Which players have failed to come to agreements with the Bengals, left to be a FA somewhere, and then gone on to have actually done well? Which FA careers took off after the Bengals couldn't make a deal happen? TRADES DO NOT count.....

I can think of 3: Andrew Whitworth, Garrison Hearst, Lorenzo Neal... YES, we have to go back THAT far for the 2nd & 3rd.

EDIT: Adding Marvin Jones, Justin Smith, Ahmad Brooks

- Evan Mathis did well with the Eagles and never got a fair shot here.
- Reggie Nelson did ok for the Raiders, but he never peaked again like he did w Cincy. He just didn't fall off a cliff like everyone else.

Point is: The Bengals seem to kind of nail valuations on these guys. The list of big dog FAs that left Cincy and tanked is GROSSLY longer than anyone who turned the Bengals down and continued to shine. History overwhelmingly points to the fact that if Bates III wants THAT much more than the Bengals will give him than he ain't worth it.

[*bfine32*]

(07-15-2022, 06:51 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Here's an interesting spin off discussion to put Bates III not getting as much as HE wanted from the Bengals...


Which players have failed to come to agreements with the Bengals, left to be a FA somewhere, and then gone on to have actually done well? Which FA careers took off after the Bengals couldn't make a deal happen? TRADES DO NOT count.....

I can think of 3: Andrew Whitworth, Garrison Hearst, Lorenzo Neal... YES, we have to go back THAT far for the 2nd
- Evan Mathis did well with the Eagles and never got a fair shot here.
Reggie Nelson did ok for the Raiders, but he never peaked again like he did w Cincy. He just didn't fall off a cliff like everyone else.

Point is: The Bengals seem to kind of nail valuations on these guys. The list of big dog FAs that left Cincy and tanked is GROSSLY longer than anyone who turned the Bengals down and continued to shine. History overwhelmingly points to the fact that if Bates III wants THAT much more than the Bengals will give him than he ain't worth it.

Marvin Jones 

Ahmad Brooks (He was cut)

[*ochocincos*]

(07-15-2022, 06:51 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Here's an interesting spin off discussion to put Bates III not getting as much as HE wanted from the Bengals...


Which players have failed to come to agreements with the Bengals, left to be a FA somewhere, and then gone on to have actually done well? Which FA careers took off after the Bengals couldn't make a deal happen? TRADES DO NOT count.....

I can think of 3: Andrew Whitworth, Garrison Hearst, Lorenzo Neal... YES, we have to go back THAT far for the 2nd & 3rd
- Evan Mathis did well with the Eagles and never got a fair shot here.
Reggie Nelson did ok for the Raiders, but he never peaked again like he did w Cincy. He just didn't fall off a cliff like everyone else.

Point is: The Bengals seem to kind of nail valuations on these guys. The list of big dog FAs that left Cincy and tanked is GROSSLY longer than anyone who turned the Bengals down and continued to shine. History overwhelmingly points to the fact that if Bates III wants THAT much more than the Bengals will give him than he ain't worth it.

I'd maybe consider Marvin Jones as someone who has done well.
He put up 5128 yards (855/y average) and 40 TDs (6.7/y average) across his 6 years after the Bengals.
That's pretty good WR2 numbers.
He's made about $48 mill in those 6 years too, which is also pretty good.

[PDub80]

(07-15-2022, 06:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Marvin Jones 

Ahmad Brooks (He was cut)

Good call. I added Marvin Jones. Forgot about Brooks. he became a monster. So did Justin Smith.

[ATOTR]

(07-15-2022, 06:51 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Here's an interesting spin off discussion to put Bates III not getting as much as HE wanted from the Bengals...


Which players have failed to come to agreements with the Bengals, left to be a FA somewhere, and then gone on to have actually done well? Which FA careers took off after the Bengals couldn't make a deal happen? TRADES DO NOT count.....

I can think of 3: Andrew Whitworth, Garrison Hearst, Lorenzo Neal... YES, we have to go back THAT far for the 2nd & 3rd
- Evan Mathis did well with the Eagles and never got a fair shot here.
- Marvin Jones was kind of the same dude, but never really transcended into another tier of guy.
- Reggie Nelson did ok for the Raiders, but he never peaked again like he did w Cincy. He just didn't fall off a cliff like everyone else.

Point is: The Bengals seem to kind of nail valuations on these guys. The list of big dog FAs that left Cincy and tanked is GROSSLY longer than anyone who turned the Bengals down and continued to shine. History overwhelmingly points to the fact that if Bates III wants THAT much more than the Bengals will give him than he ain't worth it.

I agree, and I think this is a simple value model. 

Bates: I want to be paid top 3 Safety Money 

Bengals:  Cool, but you're not.  We will Franchise you, to kinda overpay for a year while we work out a deal.  We do want you here

Bates:  No, I want to be paid top 3 money

Bengals:  Yeah.....but you're not

Bates:  But, If you pay me 40M Guaranteed, I can get a Steak Bates at the Precient named after me.  They'll call it the 'Master Bates' 

Bengals:  We've made a huge mistake 

[PDub80]

(07-15-2022, 06:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd maybe consider Marvin Jones as someone who has done well.
He put up 5128 yards (855/y average) and 40 TDs (6.7/y average) across his 6 years after the Bengals.
That's pretty good WR2 numbers.
He's made about $48 mill in those 6 years too, which is also pretty good.

I agree that Jones has done well. I added him!

[Goalpost]

If it comes down to it, Dax is a slightly better athlete....especially in the 40...4.38 vs 4.50. He wins the comparison vs Bates in arm length, 40, 10 yard, 20 yard, 20 yard shuttle, 3 cone, vert, and broad. Bates win in height..by less than an inch...weight...by 9 lbs, and hand size...a quarter of an inch. And of course, Dax was drafted numerically ahead of where Bates was drafted...not by much...but he was.

[PDub80]

(07-15-2022, 07:29 PM)Goalpost Wrote: If it comes down to it, Dax is a slightly better athlete....especially in the 40...4.38 vs 4.50.   He wins the comparison vs Bates in arm length, 40, 10 yard, 20 yard, 20 yard shuttle, 3 cone, vert, and broad.  Bates win in height..by less than an inch...weight...by 9 lbs, and hand size...a quarter of an inch.  And of course, Dax was drafted numerically ahead of where Bates was drafted...not by much...but he was.

No question that, on paper, Dax Hill is a better prospect than Jessie Bates was coming out of school. Bates is an avg S at his worst and a top 3 S at his best. I don't see how the Bengals top 5 $ that kind of inconsistency.

[NUGDUKWE]

Jonathan Joseph I would say has played well although I'm not sure on his stats. But he certainly played a long time.

I get the not wanting to pay Bates the top safety market as we are certainly gonna have two mega contracts in the not so distant future. But to not want to budge on the guaranteed money is just stupid in my opinion. I can understand on outside free agent but your not giving up on Bates for at least a few years so why not just guarantee that money anyway. I mean how much money did we flush down the toilet with Waynes? So what does it matter if it's guaranteed or not. If players want the security then give it to them.

[*bfine32*]

(07-15-2022, 07:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Jonathan Joseph I would say has played well although I'm not sure on his stats. But he certainly played a long time.

I get the not wanting to pay Bates the top safety market as we are certainly gonna have two mega contracts in the not so distant future. But to not want to budge on the guaranteed money is just stupid in my opinion. I can understand on outside free agent but your not giving up on Bates for at least a few years so why not just guarantee that money anyway. I mean how much money did we flush down the toilet with Waynes? So what does it matter if it's guaranteed or not. If players want the security then give it to them.

Well we saved about $11 Mil this year because it wasn't guaranteed. 

[jfkbengals]

My $.02

If he never signs or reports, either tag him again next season OR trade him at the trade deadline to the highest bidder in the NFC.

[BoomerFan]

After a certain point, this stuff becomes about ego. When you care about money so much that you are hurting your team and yourself you need to look at that greed and ask how it is serving you.

Leveon Bell recently said that he regretted holding out for a season. I hope Bates hears that. Because any way you slice it Bates is gonna end up a multi-millionaire but the real question is will he live up to his potential on field. Hard to do that if you miss camp. Impossible to do that if you miss games.

[fredtoast]

It is strange how these things play out.

I liked both Steinbach and Zeitler. They were both good players and I wish we could have kept them. But they were overpaid in free agency, and it would have been a mistake if the Bengals had re-signed them at those prices.

Yet fans accuse Mike Brown of "not valuing interior offensive lineman" mainly because we let those 2 guys walk.

[QueenCity]

I think most of us thought "The Burrow Effect" would of got Bates to come down off his asking price. A little surprising he doesn't want to sign and be part of many special teams.

Part of the issue is Mike Brown is cash poor unlike the other owners. He just cannot afford to give out guaranteed money. As others noted we have much bigger priorities than Bates coming down the line.

[ATOTR]

(07-15-2022, 09:15 PM)QueenCity Wrote: Part of the issue is Mike Brown is cash poor unlike the other owners. He just cannot afford to give out guaranteed money. As others noted we have much bigger priorities than Bates coming down the line.

This is the most false, fake news, made up bullshit on these boards. 

Jesus Christ; have you no comprehension about the league, how it is operated and the cap/salaries?

I could be the owner tomorrow, with 65 dollars in a custodial bank account - and the bengals could still sign jessie bates to a long contract. 


Stop propagating false nonsense