Heading into Training Camp

[PDub80]

Cut: Brandon Wilson
Keep: Kwamie Lassiter II
Preseason Darling: Scotty Washington

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-21-2022, 04:47 PM)pally Wrote: He still looked out of shape in an Instagram video a couple of weeks ago

Dang, still a lot of time to get in shape for Shelvin though. Maybe he is saving it up for the season?

We will see, I liked Shelvin a lot when we drafted him, reminds me of Vince Wilfork.

(07-21-2022, 05:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: True, but I didn't notice him being overly fast either on the clips I've seen.
The scouting reports I've seen on him that mention the average speed/athleticism I'm assuming they also determined from the film, or at least cross-referenced that with his testing numbers.

FWIW, here are his testing numbers - https://ras.football/ras-information/?PlayerID=21515
Overall - 4.54 (poor)
Height - 5'10.875" (3/10 - poor)
Weight - 185 (2.82/10 - poor)
Vert - 33.5 (4.33/10 - poor)
Broad - 10.0' (5.8/10 - average)
40 - 4.52 (6.85/10 - average)
10 split - 1.62 (3.87/10 - poor)
shuttle - 4.23 (6.47/10 - average)
3-cone - 7.32 (1.64/10 - poor)

Is it possible myself and others saw the testing first and then went to the film and had a jaded opinion of the film because we knew the testing beforehand? Possibly.
But even going back I don't see above average speed and athleticism for a NFL WR.
I see a guy who can be solid and make some plays, which does have value.
I could see him being similar to Alex Erickson, who has shown he can put up 500+ yards if given enough opportunities. That might be ok for a WR4.
We'll have to see.

Thanks Ocho for the numbers on Lassiter. The thing about numbers is they can jade your opinion of a player similar to
Tisdale's numbers that were great for a man his size. In the end it is about football IQ to go along with athleticism cause
everyone is athletic in the NFL.


We will see no doubt. All I know is I saw Lassiter catching at least a couple balls from Burrow in Mandatories.

(07-22-2022, 07:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Only because I still think they keep him one more year, my surprise cut will be Kevin Huber.  And I think Huber goes with him.  The battery of Adomidis and Crissman will take over.  

My surprise keep will be Jack Sorenson, since you took Tisdale.

Pre-season MVP will be Thad Moss.  

(07-22-2022, 08:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Duh, Huber goes with Huber?  Have another coffee, Steve...

Yes, I meant Harris.  I think if the battery of Adomitis and Crissman can prove they can be as quick, efficient, and reliable as Huber and Harris, they will opt for the (much) stronger leg.

Huber really faded down the stretch, but his holding and rapport with Harris can't be understated.  If I had to wager, they will still be  here, but under the heading of "surprise" I chose to opt for the new guys.

Crissman also needs to show he can directional punt as well or better than Huber, not just boom it.  

Could happen with Adomitis replacing Clark Harris. He could be the next great Long Snapper. Clark is probably the best in 
the NFL right now though, it is kind of a balancing act. Don't want to put the next great on the Practice Squad cause he might
get plucked off and don't want to cut your great aging player cause it could hurt you a couple times in the season.

I know nothing about Chrisman still, all I know was he was on Ohio State and was thought highly of.

I think the coaches like him otherwise we would of drafted Ariza or one of the other great punters in this class. Huber is falling
off even though he was the best Punter we have ever had. Need to keep our ST's top of the NFL. We have the Kicker...

(07-22-2022, 08:33 AM)wcu Wrote: Hill/Brown would be my guesses as well. Hill certainly didn't inspire with his play last year. And, I'm not being mean, but the guy certainly doesn't have the body of an NFL player. I was shocked seeing him close up on the sidelines last season. He looked like the wrestler Yokozuna poured into a Bengals uniform. I was honestly surprised that he could snap the ball. Now if he can play well, who cares what he looks like? The point is, his body has a lot of maturing to do and hopefully a year in the weight room has made him more powerful and agile. 

The thing about Trey Hill is he has the best anchor you will see, you cannot move him.

The problem is he can't move too well either lol

[*ochocincos*]

(07-22-2022, 02:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dang, still a lot of time to get in shape for Shelvin though. Maybe he is saving it up for the season?

We will see, I liked Shelvin a lot when we drafted him, reminds me of Vince Wilfork.


Thanks Ocho for the numbers on Lassiter. The thing about numbers is they can jade your opinion of a player similar to
Tisdale's numbers that were great for a man his size. In the end it is about football IQ to go along with athleticism cause
everyone is athletic in the NFL.


We will see no doubt. All I know is I saw Lassiter catching at least a couple balls from Burrow in Mandatories.



Could happen with Adomitis replacing Clark Harris. He could be the next great Long Snapper. Clark is probably the best in 
the NFL right now though, it is kind of a balancing act. Don't want to put the next great on the Practice Squad cause he might
get plucked off and don't want to cut your great aging player cause it could hurt you a couple times in the season.

I know nothing about Chrisman still, all I know was he was on Ohio State and was thought highly of.

I think the coaches like him otherwise we would of drafted Ariza or one of the other great punters in this class. Huber is falling
off even though he was the best Punter we have ever had. Need to keep our ST's top of the NFL. We have the Kicker...


The thing about Trey Hill is he has the best anchor you will see, you cannot move him.

The problem is he can't move too well either lol

While true in some cases, Lassiter is not a big receiver.
He's medium-to-small.
So being that low on athletic measurables while also not being big doesn't give confidence he's going to exceed.
he might become an adequate WR4 though.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-22-2022, 02:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: While true in some cases, Lassiter is not a big receiver.
He's medium-to-small.
So being that low on athletic measurables while also not being big doesn't give confidence he's going to exceed.
he might become an adequate WR4 though.

He seems to have great hands for a Punt Returner and smarts which is what we need behind our top 3.

There is a reason we haven't brought in DeDe Westbrook...

Yet.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-22-2022, 02:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He seems to have great hands for a Punt Returner and smarts which is what we need behind our top 3.

There is a reason we haven't brought in DeDe Westbrook...

Yet.

That's fair, but great hands and smarts aren't athletic measurables.
But I agree those are valuable.
It's not a slight to say Lassiter could be like Erickson.
Erickson was solid for his role, he just wasn't starter-level WR.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-22-2022, 02:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's fair, but great hands and smarts aren't athletic measurables.
But I agree those are valuable.
It's not a slight to say Lassiter could be like Erickson.
Erickson was solid for his role, he just wasn't starter-level WR.

As we all know athletic measurables don't mean shit if you don't have great hands and smarts.

John Ross let me down.

[*Synric*]

(07-22-2022, 12:17 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Surprise Cut: Morgan Stanley

Surprise Keep: Jaivon Heiligh

Preseason MVP: Joseph Ossai

Since the Bengals decided to dive deep into the Coastal Carolina well with Gunter, Jones, and Heiligh I decided to watch a few of their games. I cam away really impressed with Javion Heiligh he is quicker than expected for a guy his size. 

I wanted to put him as my preseason MVP but then remembered who would likely throwing the ball lol.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-22-2022, 02:41 PM)Synric Wrote: Since the Bengals decided to dive deep into the Coastal Carolina well with Gunter, Jones, and Heiligh I decided to watch a few of their games. I cam away really impressed with Javion Heiligh he is quicker than expected for a guy his size. 

I wanted to put him as my preseason MVP but then remembered who would likely throwing the ball lol.

What position does Heiligh play again?

I forgot who this guy is...WR?

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-22-2022, 02:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dang, still a lot of time to get in shape for Shelvin though. Maybe he is saving it up for the season?

We will see, I liked Shelvin a lot when we drafted him, reminds me of Vince Wilfork.


Thanks Ocho for the numbers on Lassiter. The thing about numbers is they can jade your opinion of a player similar to
Tisdale's numbers that were great for a man his size. In the end it is about football IQ to go along with athleticism cause
everyone is athletic in the NFL.


We will see no doubt. All I know is I saw Lassiter catching at least a couple balls from Burrow in Mandatories.



Could happen with Adomitis replacing Clark Harris. He could be the next great Long Snapper. Clark is probably the best in 
the NFL right now though, it is kind of a balancing act. Don't want to put the next great on the Practice Squad cause he might
get plucked off and don't want to cut your great aging player cause it could hurt you a couple times in the season.

I know nothing about Chrisman still, all I know was he was on Ohio State and was thought highly of.

I think the coaches like him otherwise we would of drafted Ariza or one of the other great punters in this class. Huber is falling
off even though he was the best Punter we have ever had. Need to keep our ST's top of the NFL. We have the Kicker...


The thing about Trey Hill is he has the best anchor you will see, you cannot move him.

The problem is he can't move too well either lol

Shelvin strikes me as the guy that has massive ability, but not the work ethic.  Some of the plays he made in big games at LSU were jaw-dropping, but he always lacked consistency.  He has the perfect atmosphere here with guys like Reader, Hill, Hubbard, and Hendrickson.  If he can't reach his potential with this team, he likely never will. 

Lassiter seems to have exceeded expectations thus far as a WR, because I believe his main asset was as a kick returner.  The testing numbers and his size are just blah, but there are a few things to consider:  Who was his QB?  Was he the only weapon?  Does he come from a background that didn't send him to a high dollar "combine camp", where they train non-stop like track athletes, and work on all the specific testing drills?

I won't kill a guy for an average combine.  Tee was very average (but a much more imposing athlete) testing and I think that actually HELPED his NFL career because instead of doing all the combine prep work, he rested from the long college season so he would be ready for the NFL.  Some of these rookies play a 12 game season, in to the playoff, then go right to a camp, then the combine, then the draft, then OTAs and a grueling NFL season with very little down time in between.  

I don't mean to imply that is the case with Lassiter, but it is worth considering in looking at the prospect as a whole.  

Personally, I think Trenton Irwin is the most capable of the depth WRs.  I like Trent Taylor as a backup slot WR and punt returner and Chris Evans as our KR.  Could there be a better WR than both shake free before camp?  Absolutely.  Still, I like Irwin, Taylor, and Morgan behind our big three.  Not the biggest Mike Thomas fan, but I guess he is experienced at the very least.  

Pooka could push Irwin out if he has shown improved route running and ball tracking.  His special teams play could be...well, special.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-23-2022, 09:02 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Shelvin strikes me as the guy that has massive ability, but not the work ethic.  Some of the plays he made in big games at LSU were jaw-dropping, but he always lacked consistency.  He has the perfect atmosphere here with guys like Reader, Hill, Hubbard, and Hendrickson.  If he can't reach his potential with this team, he likely never will. 

Lassiter seems to have exceeded expectations thus far as a WR, because I believe his main asset was as a kick returner.  The testing numbers and his size are just blah, but there are a few things to consider:  Who was his QB?  Was he the only weapon?  Does he come from a background that didn't send him to a high dollar "combine camp", where they train non-stop like track athletes, and work on all the specific testing drills?

I won't kill a guy for an average combine.  Tee was very average (but a much more imposing athlete) testing and I think that actually HELPED his NFL career because instead of doing all the combine prep work, he rested from the long college season so he would be ready for the NFL.  Some of these rookies play a 12 game season, in to the playoff, then go right to a camp, then the combine, then the draft, then OTAs and a grueling NFL season with very little down time in between.  

I don't mean to imply that is the case with Lassiter, but it is worth considering in looking at the prospect as a whole.  

Personally, I think Trenton Irwin is the most capable of the depth WRs.  I like Trent Taylor as a backup slot WR and punt returner and Chris Evans as our KR.  Could there be a better WR than both shake free before camp?  Absolutely.  Still, I like Irwin, Taylor, and Morgan behind our big three.  Not the biggest Mike Thomas fan, but I guess he is experienced at the very least.  

Pooka could push Irwin out if he has shown improved route running and ball tracking.  His special teams play could be...well, special.  

Another great post SHRacer. Shelvin is the type that could come out of nowhere and make some splash plays if he 
gets in shape. Also, one of those WR's could also finally find their groove and become that backup we need in case 
one of our top 3 go down. Happens all the time with UDFA's and late round draft picks.

I saw some things from Irwin last year that impressed me. Morgan seems to look faster in the vids I have watched.

Lassiter is my pick to impress this season though, like you said, lots of factors go into a player's numbers.

You cannot put all your stock in a player's numbers in judging a player. Doesn't work that way. The eye test is where
I can see something in a player or not. Cannot wait for Training Camp and the videos of the players working at their
craft.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-23-2022, 02:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Another great post SHRacer. Shelvin is the type that could come out of nowhere and make some splash plays if he 
gets in shape. Also, one of those WR's could also finally find their groove and become that backup we need in case 
one of our top 3 go down. Happens all the time with UDFA's and late round draft picks.

I saw some things from Irwin last year that impressed me. Morgan seems to look faster in the vids I have watched.

Lassiter is my pick to impress this season though, like you said, lots of factors go into a player's numbers.

You cannot put all your stock in a player's numbers in judging a player. Doesn't work that way. The eye test is where
I can see something in a player or not. Cannot wait for Training Camp and the videos of the players working at their
craft.

One last point about Shelvin:  I think as critical as the coaching staff views team chemistry and culture, Shelvin NOT getting a pass just on his potential this season could help to send a message to the rest of the team.  It doesn't matter where you were drafted or what your perceived abilities may be, if you aren't working your ass off to contribute and help the team, someone that is working their ass off and actually executing is likely to take your spot.

They have that type of culture now.  I think a guy like Tupou could very easily send Shelvin packing, but I sure hope he takes a big step and can be a vital depth piece.  I would love to see Shelvin at NT and Reader at 3T in short yardage and goal line situations.  But only if Shelvin has proven he belongs.  

[*pally*]

(07-22-2022, 03:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What position does Heiligh play again?

I forgot who this guy is...WR?

yep a WR

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10021504-jaivon-heiligh-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-coastal-carolina-wr

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/jaivon-heiligh-coastal-carolina-wr-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-24-2022, 10:10 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: One last point about Shelvin:  I think as critical as the coaching staff views team chemistry and culture, Shelvin NOT getting a pass just on his potential this season could help to send a message to the rest of the team.  It doesn't matter where you were drafted or what your perceived abilities may be, if you aren't working your ass off to contribute and help the team, someone that is working their ass off and actually executing is likely to take your spot.

They have that type of culture now.  I think a guy like Tupou could very easily send Shelvin packing, but I sure hope he takes a big step and can be a vital depth piece.  I would love to see Shelvin at NT and Reader at 3T in short yardage and goal line situations.  But only if Shelvin has proven he belongs.  

All truth in my eyes. Tupou and Shelvin are a lot alike, big NT's that are hard to move. Should be a battle.

(07-24-2022, 10:30 AM)pally Wrote: yep a WR

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10021504-jaivon-heiligh-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-coastal-carolina-wr

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/jaivon-heiligh-coastal-carolina-wr-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

Thanks Pally once again. Another Coastal Carolina player eh?

[fredtoast]

Shelvin did not show anything last year, but I try to never judge a player by his rookie season.

Tupou looks like a much better player, but this will be his 5th year in the NFL. He is not going to make a dramatic improvement at this point, but Shelvin might. A lot of very good NFL players struggled as rookies.

[Sled21]

I remember reading an article last year where the defensive coaches said the reason Shelvin did not get more playing time was simply the guys in front of him, and his time will come. I haven't heard what kind of shape he showed up in this year, but hopefully he can put together a good 2nd season for us.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-25-2022, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Shelvin did not show anything last year, but I try to never judge a player by his rookie season.

Tupou looks like a much better player, but this will be his 5th year in the NFL.  He is not going to make a dramatic improvement at this point, but Shelvin might.  A lot of very good NFL players struggled as rookies.

Feel the same way about Carman, but at least Carman shown some great flashes at times.

You never know what you got with these young sophomore players, they could end up being great or flushed out of the league.

(07-28-2022, 08:35 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I remember reading an article last year where the defensive coaches said the reason Shelvin did not get more playing time was simply the guys in front of him, and his time will come. I haven't heard what kind of shape he showed up  in this year, but hopefully he can put together a good 2nd season for us.

Heard Shelvin isn't in great shape but it is hard to tell with big NT's on what (in great shape) is honestly.

These guys are built to stop the run, they just need to have stamina. I don't care what they look like.

Vince Wilfork didn't look like Aaron Donald but was a beast at stopping the run and could rush the passer a touch.

Hope Shelvin turns out something like Wilfork.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Do we not have a dedicated TC thread going?

Anyway, Ja’Marr doing his thing even without 9.

Ja’Marr Chase is already in midseason form ?

(? @htown)
pic.twitter.com/bM0I2bkc2V

— PFF (@PFF) July 28, 2022