Bates is communitcating with Dax Hill

[*pally*]

This certainly doesn't sound like he is disconnecting from the team

Dax Hill said Jessie Bates texted him after the #Bengals first camp practice yesterday.

"He said it's a blessing to be out there the first day of camp when everything's exciting, and if there's anything you need, just reach out to me."

— Jay Morrison (@JayMorrisonATH) July 28, 2022

Hill also said Bates has reached out to him several other times and he plans to sit down with him and watch film "and pick his brain a little bit to try to get some tips."

— Jay Morrison (@JayMorrisonATH) July 28, 2022

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Makes me feel better about the situation. I really like Jessie, I just don't like his agent.

Think he will play on the Tag regardless I just don't know how well he will play with all of this on his mind.

He should of just signed the extension IMO.

I know his agent told him to hold out for more but that is what you get with agents. Chaos, not good.

Daxton Hill is such a great pick. I think this guy could end up being one of the best Safeties in the NFL and the most
versatile of the bunch. He can play anywhere in the Secondary and could even play LB if we needed him to with his
sure tackling. Cool of Jessie Bates reaching out to his 1 year teammate while we hopefully make a run at a SB win.

[BFritz21]

(07-28-2022, 04:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Makes me feel better about the situation. I really like Jessie, I just don't like his agent.

Think he will play on the Tag regardless I just don't know how well he will play with all of this on his mind.

He should of just signed the extension IMO.

I know his agent told him to hold out for more but that is what you get with agents. Chaos, not good.

Daxton Hill is such a great pick. I think this guy could end up being one of the best Safeties in the NFL and the most
versatile of the bunch. He can play anywhere in the Secondary and could even play LB if we needed him to with his
sure tackling. Cool of Jessie Bates reaching out to his 1 year teammate while we hopefully make a run at a SB win.

Yeah. I’ve said it a bunch of times that his agent is behind this and it could end up backfiring on Bates.

Hopefully, Dax being in camp motivates Bates to get in camp soon and prevents him from half-assing the regular season because no one wants to be outplayed by a younger guy, especially when you’re trying to get your current team or another club to give you a long-term contract.

I hope Dax can make some noise and play well enough to make Bates nervous.

Another aspect is the other players because they could see Dax playing hard and playing well and say the hell with Bates.

Like we both said, it’s most likely his agent’s influence, so I hope Bates doesn’t end up getting screwed but, at this point, it’s strictly business.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-28-2022, 04:42 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Yeah. I’ve said it a bunch of times that his agent is behind this and it could end up backfiring on Bates.

Hopefully, Dax being in camp motivates Bates to get in camp soon and prevents him from half-assing the regular season because no one wants to be outplayed by a younger guy, especially when you’re trying to get your current team or another club to give you a long-term contract.

I hope Dax can make some noise and play well enough to make Bates nervous.

Another aspect is the other players because they could see Dax playing hard and playing well and say the hell with Bates.

Like we both said, it’s most likely his agent’s influence, so I hope Bates doesn’t end up getting screwed but, at this point, it’s strictly business.

Yep and money isn't everything. Bates will be getting lots of dough regardless, more than most any of us will ever see.

I would of taken less just to stay on Joe Burrow's team but the agent says hold out so he holds out.

I don't like people in between me and my life, kind of my rule so I guess I am biased in this aspect against agents and such.

Also I heard we offered Bates top 3 Safety money and if this is the case that was overpaying for his services and all of this is 
completely ridiculous and he should of already signed. Has to do with the guaranteed money if this is true and they are just 
pulling hairs over practically nothing.

[BFritz21]

(07-28-2022, 04:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep and money isn't everything. Bates will be getting lots of dough regardless, more than most any of us will ever see.

I would of taken less just to stay on Joe Burrow's team but the agent says hold out so he holds out.

I don't like people in between me and my life, kind of my rule so I guess I am biased in this aspect against agents and such.

Also I heard we offered Bates top 3 Safety money and if this is the case that was overpaying for his services and all of this is 
completely ridiculous and he should of already signed. Has to do with the guaranteed money if this is true and they are just 
pulling hairs over practically nothing.

Wow.

If that's true, then Bates is a lot stupider than I thought.

I get guaranteed being a big deal in some instances, but when there's not much risk, relatively speaking, and it looks like you'll have a long career, guaranteed money isn't that important, especially when you'll make millions already guaranteed!

This page shows that safety is one of the least positions prone to injury:



Also, like you said, being on Burrow's team has to be incentive to stay because you know the team has a chance at a Super Bowl every year and teams generally like to keep successful teams together, meaning that the risk of Bates being cut would be a lot less, meaning injury would be the only reason why he wouldn't get paid.

I guess injury is a concern, but, as I pointed out above, safeties don't get injured as much because they're generally doing the hitting instead of getting hit, so tackling properly helps to avoid serious injury.

[007BengalsFan]

Do the Vikings need a safety? Trade Bates for Jefferson

P.S. I would also be willing to throw in Boyd in the trade.

[*pally*]

(07-28-2022, 07:34 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Do the Vikings need a safety?  Trade Bates for Jefferson

P.S.  I would also be willing to throw in Boyd in the trade

Bates isn't under contract therefore he cannot be traded.  He won't get traded unless he signs with the Bengals first and agrees to a contract with the new team PRIOR to the trade

[BFritz21]

(07-28-2022, 08:24 PM)pally Wrote: Bates isn't under contract therefore he cannot be traded.  He won't get traded unless he signs with the Bengals first and agrees to a contract with the new team PRIOR to the trade

No other team is going to offer the kind of money we did, so we're kind of screwed because he likely won't agree to the sign and trade without the other team offering him more.

We could hope that a team makes an offer with incentives in the contract, but I doubt he takes it if guaranteed money was the deal killer with us.

[KillerGoose]

(07-28-2022, 07:34 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Do the Vikings need a safety?  Trade Bates for Jefferson

P.S.  I would also be willing to throw in Boyd in the trade.

Someone else proposed this and I just can't see why the Vikings would accept. Jefferson fits the "generational" tag and is a top three WR - arguably the best, though I think that is Cooper Kupp at the moment. 

This proposal is saying "here, we will give you an inconsistent, malcontent safety who wants to be paid top tier money for your potential Hall of Fame caliber receiver. Oh, and we'll throw in a slot receiver." On top of this, the Vikings just drafted a safety in the first round this year. The Vikings become demonstrably worse via this trade, in my opinion. 

EDIT - I don’t mean this as a dog at Boyd. He is a fantastic slot receiver, but he isn’t able to provide the same value that Jefferson can.

[fredtoast]

His behavior makes perfect sense to me. He knows that he will end up playing. So he wants to help these guys out because they will be his teammates this year.

As a 5th year veteran Bates does not need training camp. Can you blame him for getting out of it? If a player under contract doesn't come to training camp he can get drilled with a ton of fines. Bates is not under contract so there is no penalty for skipping training camp.

Basically he is saying, "Yeah, I will play for the franchise tag money, but I am not going through training camp." If he is not getting as much money as he wants then he sees the "free pass" to skip camp as an added benefit.

[J24]

(07-28-2022, 09:35 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Someone else proposed this and I just can't see why the Vikings would accept. Jefferson fits the "generational" tag and is a top three WR - arguably the best, though I think that is Cooper Kupp at the moment. 

This proposal is saying "here, we will give you an inconsistent, malcontent safety who wants to be paid top tier money for your potential Hall of Fame caliber receiver. Oh, and we'll throw in a slot receiver." On top of this, the Vikings just drafted a safety in the first round this year. The Vikings become demonstrably worse via this trade, in my opinion. 

EDIT - I don’t mean this as a dog at Boyd. He is a fantastic slot receiver, but he isn’t able to provide the same value that Jefferson can.

Yeah I don't see that either the most I could see for Bates is 2nd RD pick or a 3rd + a role player.

Also I wouldn't do that trade I think the combo of Bates + Boyd is better than Jefferson.  Jefferson is of course the better player out of the three but Bates and  Boyd are pretty good players on their own.

[*pally*]

(07-28-2022, 09:26 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: No other team is going to offer the kind of money we did, so we're kind of screwed because he likely won't agree to the sign and trade without the other team offering him more.

We could hope that a team makes an offer with incentives in the contract, but I doubt he takes it if guaranteed money was the deal killer with us.

I disagree. While we don’t know the total value of what the team offered, we do know that the guarantee offer was only $17 million. Minkah Fitzpatrick, who is often ranked below Bates received a $17.5 million signing bonus and a $36 million guarantee. There are plenty of teams willing to pay that amount or more for Jessie Bates. The NFL values him more than Bengals fans do.

[fredtoast]

(07-29-2022, 07:49 AM)pally Wrote: I disagree.  While we don’t know the total value of what the team offered, we do know that the guarantee offer was only $17 million.  Minkah Fitzpatrick, who is often ranked below Bates received a $17.5 million signing bonus and a $36 million guarantee.  There are plenty of teams willing to pay that amount or more for Jessie Bates. The NFL values him more than Bengals fans do.

Don't be silly. Fitzpatrick got that contract after back-to-back First Team All Pro seasons. Bates is coming off a season where he half-assed it for half a year.

No NFL team would pay Bates that much guaranteed at this point. Some Bengal fans value Bates more than NFL teams do.

[Sled21]

(07-29-2022, 08:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't be silly. Fitzpatrick got that contract after back-to-back First Team All Pro seasons.

Bates is coming off a season where he half-added it for half a year.

No NFL team would pay Bates that much guaranteed at this point. Some Bengal fans value Bates more than NFL teams do.

I think Bates also excels at Safety here in Cincinnati because he plays with Bell. While neither are probably elite by themselves, they match up and compliment each other and play well together. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-28-2022, 11:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: His behavior makes perfect sense to me.  He knows that he will end up playing.  So he wants to help these guys out because they will be his teammates this year.

As a 5th year veteran Bates does not need training camp.  Can you blame him for getting out of it?  If a player under contract doesn't come to training camp he can get drilled with a ton of fines.  Bates is not under contract so there is no penalty for skipping training camp.

Basically he is saying, "Yeah, I will play for the franchise tag money, but I am not going through training camp."  If he is not getting as much money as he wants then he sees the "free pass" to skip camp as an added benefit.

The one thing no one thinks about is that Bates could get injured working out on  his own and get absolutely nothing.  He doesn't want to risk a contract with only $17 million guaranteed, but he could end up with no contract at all.  Sure, it is unlikely, but if he is running and cutting it isn't a "free pass".  

FWIW, this is the last thing on earth I want to have happen to Bates.  I hope he plays, wins a Super Bowl, and decided he wants to be a Bengal for life.  Unlikely, again, but that is my wish for him.