WR Mike Thomas injured

[jj22]

(07-29-2022, 06:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What a stupid thing to say.

Why? It's not likely we have the same injury luck as last year.... The odds rather you like it or not just isn't there.

I believe in the law of average.

[Nepa]

(07-29-2022, 08:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: Why? It's not likely we have the same injury luck as last year.... The odds rather you like it or not just isn't there.

I believe in the law of average.

We will see if Buffalo comes back to the pack in terms of law of averages. Their rating for health the last five seasons has been: 2nd (2021), 5th (2020), 1st (2019), 4th (2018), and 9th (2017). The Bengals were ranked 9th healthiest last year.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-enjoyed-the-second-healthiest-starting-lineup-in-nfl-in-2021/article_b37146d8-8e94-11ec-ac3a-f787068ebed4.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_TheBuffaloNews

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-29-2022, 05:54 PM)WhoDey Wrote: Seriously? I would google it before asking that question

Yeah. I don't understand people that ask questions when they have the Google box on their internet machine. 

I also don't understand people that come on here, after being gone for a while and typing "hey, how you doin/been?", like it's a chat room or live conversation.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-29-2022, 08:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: Why? It's not likely we have the same injury luck as last year.... The odds rather you like it or not just isn't there.

I believe in the law of average.

First off, then that would mean the Bengals would be in for several seasons of excellent health, considering the many years of massive injuries they've sustained. 

Also, "karma" isn't the proper word to use there. 

[*bfine32*]

(07-29-2022, 09:24 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yeah. I don't understand people that ask questions when they have the Google box on their internet machine. 

I also don't understand people that come on here, after being gone for a while and typing "hey, how you doin/been?", like it's a chat room or live conversation.

rfaulk!!! How ya been??

[HarleyDog]

(07-29-2022, 04:36 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: is TY Hilton still available? i saw Cole Beasley was out there...  

Not sure what either has left

They are both available. I would love to have Beasley as a #4.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-29-2022, 09:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: rfaulk!!! How ya been??

bastard...

BTW, how do the Packers look this year?  

[J24]

(07-29-2022, 08:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: Why? It's not likely we have the same injury luck as last year.... The odds rather you like it or not just isn't there.

I believe in the law of average.

We had a good amount of injuries last season 
Rieff, ADG, Bachie, Brandon Wilson, and Ossai. Plus Logan Wilson and Higgins tore their Labrums last season. We weren't a lucky team last season.

[WhoDey]

(07-29-2022, 07:15 PM)Mer Wrote: Sorry, I'm on vacation and just checking in every now and then. I thought I'd go to the experts.

BTW why didn't you answer my question rather than coming off as a rude dude?

I stand by my response. It just took me 6 seconds to google Jeff Gunter. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-29-2022, 05:00 PM)Synric Wrote: Truth.

I'm just saying no reason to go out and get one of those vets like TY Hilton, Will Fuller, OBJ etc...  

I really hope they give Will Fuller a shot.  

In 2020, he had 53 receptions for 879 yards, (16.6 YPR average) and 8 TDs in just 11 games.  Yes, there are durability concerns, but he doesn't have to be an every down receiver here.  He can play outside when Chase lines up in the slot, and he can provide excellent depth of vertical threats.  Can you imagine Joe attacking defenses from 4 WR sets (empty) with a better line and the 4th best DB has to cover Fuller or Boyd?  

I would imagine Fuller would sign a one-year prove it deal for around $4-5 million with incentives.  Where is he going to get better QB play and more WR talent around him to draw coverage?  

Sure, I am concerned about depth at 3T and OT, but at that price tag you aren't going to get anyone better than what we already have, most likely. 

Outscore opponents.  Get up on them early.  Fuller makes sense.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-30-2022, 02:34 AM)J24 Wrote: We had a good amount of injuries last season 
Rieff, ADG, Bachie, Brandon Wilson, and Ossai. Plus Logan Wilson and Higgins tore their Labrums last season. We weren't a lucky team last season.

And we were missing Ogunjobi for the entire playoffs.

Also, like rfaulk mentioned, “karma” is not even the right word in a situation where we are waiting for the other shoe to drop. Bad karma implies you’ve done something wrong, and are being punished for it. This franchise more than paid their cosmic dues over the last 3 decades.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-29-2022, 06:57 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: WR 4 does not concern me, how much will they really play?  we will spilt our RB or TE multiple sets before a WR4, why waste $$ on a person sitting the bench, we know if we get a injury to our top 3, there will be a veteran sitting out there we can pick up then...

A lot.

WRs not named Chase/Higgins/Boyd played 508 snaps on offense for the Bengals in 2021. For comparison Tee Higgins played 710 snaps on offense and Boyd played 807 snaps. That 508 is already with the #2 TE (Sample) playing 459 snaps as well for your multiple TE set suggestion.

That's also from a season where the top 3 WRs all stayed pretty healthy.

An improvement at #4 WR to someone who is at least a competent NFL WR would be a huge upgrade for a pretty darn large number of snaps. Even if Chase/Higgins/Boyd stay healthy all year, a good quality #4 WR could easily see 500-700 snaps (with Sample needing less playing time with an improvement of OL). That's 50-60% of the Bengals offensive snaps where there will be an improvement over PS fodder to an actual NFL caliber pass catcher being on the field.

[phil413]

(07-30-2022, 10:34 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A lot.

WRs not named Chase/Higgins/Boyd played 508 snaps on offense for the Bengals in 2021. For comparison Tee Higgins played 710 snaps on offense and Boyd played 807 snaps. That 508 is already with the #2 TE (Sample) playing 459 snaps as well for your multiple TE set suggestion.

That's also from a season where the top 3 WRs all stayed pretty healthy.

An improvement at #4 WR to someone who is at least a competent NFL WR would be a huge upgrade for a pretty darn large number of snaps. Even if Chase/Higgins/Boyd stay healthy all year, a good quality #4 WR could easily see 500-700 snaps (with Sample needing less playing time with an improvement of OL). That's 50-60% of the Bengals offensive snaps where there will be an improvement over PS fodder to an actual NFL caliber pass catcher being on the field.

Their biggest offseason improvement is the run blocking on OL, namely the right side.  The majority of us didn't freak out in the slight drop off at TE.  This team is built to run well out of 4 WR sets, so if anything the snaps could go up for that 4th guy (which at times could be Hurst split out).  

Giving an established WR the 4th slot means you still have 2 spots for true ST guys, instead if having to cut a really good one because of limited WR upside.  They have a bevy of them, not all will be snatched up.  Give me a solid slot guy to do damage short, that should free up coverage on Boyd..not cause redundancy.  If a true outside guy isn't #4, a good slot man let's you move Boyd outside with an injury to 1A and 1B.  

On paper, Beasley and Hilton may be waiting for desperate teams that have injuries.  To your point, there is a pathway to snaps in Cincy's offense, and ring chasers should take advantage.  

[*Synric*]

Both Chibidoe Awuzie and Eli Apple saw reps on special teams in 2021 that was with the #4WR playing also taking reps on teams. People have to realize that if the #4 WR doesnt take ST reps those reps will likely go to a starter because only so many players dress on game day and only certain position groups handle specific jobs on Special Teams.

[Essex Johnson]

(07-30-2022, 10:34 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A lot.

WRs not named Chase/Higgins/Boyd played 508 snaps on offense for the Bengals in 2021. For comparison Tee Higgins played 710 snaps on offense and Boyd played 807 snaps. That 508 is already with the #2 TE (Sample) playing 459 snaps as well for your multiple TE set suggestion.

That's also from a season where the top 3 WRs all stayed pretty healthy.

An improvement at #4 WR to someone who is at least a competent NFL WR would be a huge upgrade for a pretty darn large number of snaps. Even if Chase/Higgins/Boyd stay healthy all year, a good quality #4 WR could easily see 500-700 snaps (with Sample needing less playing time with an improvement of OL). That's 50-60% of the Bengals offensive snaps where there will be an improvement over PS fodder to an actual NFL caliber pass catcher being on the field.

How many snaps did the #4 WR take in a 4 WR set and what was their value in that set? that really gets at the heart of the value of a #4 WR on offense.  They have more value on majority of the team on specials, normally  when teams sign older veterans they are overpriced and don;t provide much on special teams.   

Here is micro look at last years top 6 passing yards offense that were ahead of us and amount of receptions their #4/5 WR had per game combined.  I think this show the lack of value as a WR for that 4th coming off the bench and you can argue that we have a better Core of 3 Wrs than any of these teams which means less targets for our #4 . Morgan is off to a nice early camp at WR and we know the value he brings to special teams... now in his 4th WR, hurt most of 2020 i think he can give us enough value as the #4.

Tampa Bay:  1 
San Diego:    2 
Dallas:          3 
Chiefs           2
LA                2
Vegas           2

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-29-2022, 07:37 PM)Mer Wrote: Thank you. After about the fourth round I never remember who we draft.

Jeffrey Gunter...

End out of Coastal Carolina, has a good pass rush but needs to improve his strength hopefully this injury doesn't hurt his progress.

Saw the later Pally post about Mike Thomas being fine, still should bring in another WR at some point.

[*pally*]

Both Mike Thomas and Jeff Gunter are practicing this afternoon

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-30-2022, 12:49 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: How many snaps did the #4 WR take in a 4 WR set and what was their value in that set? that really gets at the heart of the value of a #4 WR on offense.  They have more value on majority of the team on specials, normally  when teams sign older veterans they are overpriced and don;t provide much on special teams.   

Here is micro look at last years top 6 passing yards offense that were ahead of us and amount of receptions their #4/5 WR had per game combined.  I think this show the lack of value as a WR for that 4th coming off the bench and you can argue that we have a better Core of 3 Wrs than any of these teams which means less targets for our #4 .  Morgan is off to a nice early camp at WR and we know the value he brings to special teams... now in his 4th WR, hurt most of 2020 i think he can give us enough value as the #4.

Tampa Bay:  1 
San Diego:    2 
Dallas:          3 
Chiefs           2
LA                2
Vegas           2

If you have terrible players at #4, you're going to have terrible value. That doesn't mean it won't be potentially valuable.

I already know these numbers aren't accurate. Tyler Johnson for the Bucs had 36 catches on his own, which is more than 1 per game over a 17 game schedule. It's also not accounting for the fact that Scott Miller who played 16/started 5 in 2020 was hurt almost the entire year including a stint on the IR, so all their guys had to move up a slot to fill in for the injury. 

It's not all about JUST playing as a #4 WR on the field with the other 3, it's also about who will be the next guy up if one of the top 3 get injured. For instance the Cardinals had Rondale Moore so when Hopkins went down they didn't have to make Antoine Wesley one of their top-3.

The Rams added OBJ right before Woods went down for the season because DeSean Jackson wanted out and they wanted a new #4 WR. Injury timed up so that he became their #3. That offense would have looked different with 7th round rookie Ben Skowronek suddenly as their #3 WR.

[Essex Johnson]

(07-30-2022, 04:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you have terrible players at #4, you're going to have terrible value. That doesn't mean it won't be potentially valuable.

I already know these numbers aren't accurate. Tyler Johnson for the Bucs had 36 catches on his own, which is more than 1 per game over a 17 game schedule. It's also not accounting for the fact that Scott Miller who played 16/started 5 in 2020 was hurt almost the entire year including a stint on the IR, so all their guys had to move up a slot to fill in for the injury. 

It's not all about JUST playing as a #4 WR on the field with the other 3, it's also about who will be the next guy up if one of the top 3 get injured. For instance the Cardinals had Rondale Moore so when Hopkins went down they didn't have to make Antoine Wesley one of their top-3.

The Rams added OBJ right before Woods went down for the season because DeSean Jackson wanted out and they wanted a new #4 WR. Injury timed up so that he became their #3. That offense would have looked different with 7th round rookie Ben Skowronek suddenly as their #3 WR.

So you seem to be saying that majority of #4 WRs are typically not that good , i think that tends to support what i am saying about lack of production... also injuries happen and players do fill in and that can alter some stats and yes I rounded so numbers might be off some but i also added 4/5 WR together which does compensate some for injuries and the numbers of lack of production still stand out and it has been like that over time if you really start to dig into the production #4 Wrs typically add little to a offense overall.. their value is is more on specials which is important . I actually found how often we ran 4WR sets with a back or not... less than 2% of the time...