ranking Bengals Qb's

[Essex Johnson]

(08-10-2022, 10:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Your Pollack hate-on is going to look as weird as the one you have for Burrow after this season. Book it.

And your delusional support of Pollack last year with no facts is tough, stop drinking the kool aid please..I know your a bengal fan as me but just have some substance next time..

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-10-2022, 10:41 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And your delusional support of Pollack last year with no facts is tough, stop drinking the kool aid please..I know your a bengal fan as me but just have some substance next time..

A Super Bowl coaching staff and front office believe in Frank Pollack. La’el Collins said he’s the best OL coach he’s ever had. Joe Mixon absolutely adores Pollack, and he went to a Pro Bowl last season with him as the run game coordinator.

There’s a lot more that goes into being a good OL coach besides raw sack totals. Especially with a QB like Burrow who will always take more than the average QB.

[fredtoast]

(08-10-2022, 10:41 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And your delusional support of Pollack last year with no facts is tough, 

What are you talking about "no facts".

The sack rates may have been about the same in 2020 and 2021, but in 2020 we did not even attempt to throw the ball deep.  Burow got sacked all the time even though he was running a dink-and-dunk passing game.  In 2021 he still got sacked but he had enough time in the pocket to push the ball deep down the field.  Pass pro was still weak in 2021, but it was much better than 2020 and the passing stats, i.e. "facts", back it up.

[Essex Johnson]

(08-10-2022, 10:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: A Super Bowl coaching staff and front office believe in Frank Pollack. La’el Collins said he’s the best OL coach he’s ever had. Joe Mixon absolutely adores Pollack, and he went to a Pro Bowl last season with him as the run game coordinator.

There’s a lot more that goes into being a good OL coach besides raw sack totals. Especially with a QB like Burrow who will always take more than the average QB.

Substance not  deflection, he leads the league in most sacks last 4 yrs as oline coach, I believe last in yds. Per carry also. He just has not produced granted with losing teams until last year but real questions are out there, can he improve players or does it take a bunch of high picks like his stay in Dallas to be successful.  Totally fair evaluation.. this year is the year for him, with the talent we have if our oline does not have noticeable improvement we can't hang on to past accomplishments like we did with Alexander and I would hope you would agree that this year is really a vital year for pollack

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-10-2022, 11:13 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Substance not  deflection, he leads the league in most sacks last 4 yrs as oline coach, I believe last in yds. Per carry also. He just has not produced granted with losing teams until last year but real questions are out there, can he improve players or does it take a bunch of high picks like his stay in Dallas to be successful.  Totally fair evaluation.. this year is the year for him, with the talent we have if our oline does not have noticeable improvement we can't hang on to past accomplishments like we did with Alexander and I would hope you would agree that this year is really a vital year for pollack

The bold is the key part. He had absolute dog shit to work with in Cincy and NY. Any coach is only as good as his players.

Even the great Bill Callahan (Pollack’s mentor) - who’s widely regarded as one of the best OL coaches in the game had a unit that allowed 49 sacks last year (6th most in the league). It’s almost like you have to look at the context (QB’s, injuries, etc) to really judge what was going on or something.

[ATOTR]

If Sandy Dalton was so good/underrated/under appreciated, then I have a question i'd love for someone to answer.

Why is the only job offered when he was in the prime of his career, released, and open for any team to pursue - a backup QB gig?

And 3 years later. The only job he has is again as a backup QB.


He was 32 and any team could have had signed him to start. And the only offer was a 1 year backup QB job. Why?

[ATOTR]

(08-21-2022, 12:44 PM)ATOTR Wrote: If Sandy Dalton was so good/underrated/under appreciated, then I have a question i'd love for someone to answer.

Why is the only job offered when he was in the prime of his career, released, and open for any team to pursue - a backup QB gig?

And 3 years later. The only job he has is again as a backup QB.


He was 32 and any team could have had signed him to start. And the only offer was a 1 year backup QB job. Why?

I knew no one would be able to answer.

I appreciate the silence as confirmation

[*PhilHos*]

(08-21-2022, 12:44 PM)ATOTR Wrote: If Sandy Dalton was so good/underrated/under appreciated, then I have a question i'd love for someone to answer.

Why is the only job offered when he was in the prime of his career, released, and open for any team to pursue - a backup QB gig?

And 3 years later.   The only job he has is again as a backup QB.


He was 32 and any team could have had signed him to start.  And the only offer was a 1 year backup QB job.  Why?

32 is considered PAST one's prime (in football anyways). Hence, why he was only offered backup jobs.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-10-2022, 10:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: A Super Bowl coaching staff and front office believe in Frank Pollack. La’el Collins said he’s the best OL coach he’s ever had. Joe Mixon absolutely adores Pollack, and he went to a Pro Bowl last season with him as the run game coordinator.

There’s a lot more that goes into being a good OL coach besides raw sack totals. Especially with a QB like Burrow who will always take more than the average QB.

Just my personal opinion, but I think Joe Burrow's decision making and sheer talent made up for a lot of Taylor's deficits last year.
We're reminded of how his playcalling isn't that good without Burrow in there.

As for Pollack, we need to see how this new OL actually performs, which we won't see until the regular season.
However, thus far with the guys being put out there, it's been a disappointment.
What improvements have we really seen from any of the depth?
When it comes to Volson, I see the same guy I saw leading up to the draft last year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2022, 11:18 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Just my personal opinion, but I think Joe Burrow's decision making and sheer talent made up for a lot of Taylor's deficits last year.
We're reminded of how his playcalling isn't that good without Burrow in there.

As for Pollack, we need to see how this new OL actually performs, which we won't see until the regular season.
However, thus far with the guys being put out there, it's been a disappointment.
What improvements have we really seen from any of the depth?
When it comes to Volson, I see the same guy I saw leading up to the draft last year.

Trey Hill looked much better in this game than the last IMO.

Same with Adeniji who I always hate on. We will see if this continues though cause yeah, it has been a disappointment
besides Volson who like you said seems like the same guy leading up to the draft. He is pretty dang polished, but him 
playing decent against NFL starters is a great thing to see don't you think Ocho?

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2022, 01:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Trey Hill looked much better in this game than the last IMO.

Same with Adeniji who I always hate on. We will see if this continues though cause yeah, it has been a disappointment
besides Volson who like you said seems like the same guy leading up to the draft. He is pretty dang polished, but him 
playing decent against NFL starters is a great thing to see don't you think Ocho?

"Decent" is subjective, I guess.
He definitely made a few mistakes that resulted in wide open rush lanes to the QB.
And his lack of athleticism is apparent.
He can't handle movement well.

I'd still put him as a below average starting-caliber IOL, if he does in fact start.
Might be better than Carman, but I think he still needs to improve in quite a few areas.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2022, 01:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: "Decent" is subjective, I guess.
He definitely made a few mistakes that resulted in wide open rush lanes to the QB.
And his lack of athleticism is apparent.
He can't handle movement well.

I'd still put him as a below average starting-caliber IOL, if he does in fact start.
Might be better than Carman, but I think he still needs to improve in quite a few areas.

For sure. I think he will improve in the areas you speak of. It was a big day for him going into New York and being the starting
LG against NFL starters with poor play around him besides Trey Hill who actually played good from what I saw. Gonna watch the 
game again though before our last preseason game to know for sure. I saw Hill hustling unlike the first game and blocking through
the whistle which is what we all like to see.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-23-2022, 05:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For sure. I think he will improve in the areas you speak of. It was a big day for him going into New York and being the starting
LG against NFL starters with poor play around him besides Trey Hill who actually played good from what I saw. Gonna watch the 
game again though before our last preseason game to know for sure. I saw Hill hustling unlike the first game and blocking through
the whistle which is what we all like to see.

Purely my speculation, but I don't know how much more improvement we'll really see with Volson when it comes to the limited athleticism.
I don't know how much faster he's going to be able to shift around laterally to handle stunts in bigger spaces or be able to climb to the second level.
He might be who he is in that regard.

Maybe a shift to keeping a tighter pocket could help him so that he doesn't have to move laterally as much.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(08-21-2022, 12:44 PM)ATOTR Wrote: If Sandy Dalton was so good/underrated/under appreciated, then I have a question i'd love for someone to answer.

Why is the only job offered when he was in the prime of his career, released, and open for any team to pursue - a backup QB gig?

And 3 years later.   The only job he has is again as a backup QB.


He was 32 and any team could have had signed him to start.  And the only offer was a 1 year backup QB job.  Why?

(08-22-2022, 09:36 AM)ATOTR Wrote: I knew no one would be able to answer.  

I appreciate the silence as confirmation

Sorry, I was having a great long weekend surrounding an awesome performance by the legendary Blue Oyster Cult. If anybody gets a chance to see them, reward yourselves and do it, they won't be around much longer. Since they always played jamming, aggressive music with great lead guitar, but they never were a bunch of Heavy Metal screamers, they still have their voices and they sound awesome. Their latest album, The Symbol Remains from 2020 is solid from start to finish. Celebrating the 50th anniversary of the release of their debut album, they played 4 tracks off of it including some added solo sections. A couple of 70 year old greats killing it for over an hour and a half at an outdoor show in the rainy season in Alaska. Charlie Daniels played for 45 minutes years ago and said "#### this, I'm out of here" so their efforts were appreciated very much.



Anyway, how many starting QB slots are available when a QB is released after a draft? In my 54 plus years on the planet, I've never seen an NFL franchise going into an off-season with a open starting QB spot still have no QB after FA and the draft. Had he been released before FA, he may have landed a starting gig, he may not have. We won't know because he wasn't given that chance.

He did get a starting slot last year but the Bears didn't expect the QB they coveted in Fields to drop to them(49ers taking Trey Lance shocked them because that's where they thought Fields was going) so they traded up from #20 to #11 to get him  when he continued to fall. Dalton was the starter until injured.

Dalton is now 2-0 starting vs Cincinnati. If Winston gets banged up before week 6, he might have a chance at 3-0. I don't want to see that happen at all but if it does, as a consolation prize, I'll laugh knowing how much it bothers people still butt hurt about a QB that's three off-seasons removed from Cincinnati. 

Dalton didn't deliver a playoff win for Cincinnati, but he did gift us a chance at #1 overall. Iffen it tweren't fer Dalton, there'd be no Burrow in Cincinnati and you'd probably be hoping Tua works out. It's too bad some of you can't accept that and move on.

[Frank Booth]

(08-23-2022, 08:12 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Dalton didn't deliver a playoff win for Cincinnati, but he did gift us a chance at #1 overall. 

bigger shout out to ryan finley

[*PhilHos*]

(08-23-2022, 08:13 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: bigger shout out to ryan finley

Ahhhhhh Finley. The QB who knew where to throw the ball most of the time, but had the arm strength of Olive Oyl to (not) get it there.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Vanilla Vick slander will not be tolerated!

[*PhilHos*]

(08-24-2022, 12:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Vanilla Vick slander will not be tolerated!

But Olive Oyl has so much going for her, like ...


Ummmm ...




Oooh wait, I got one! For no obvious reason, she has 2 really strong guys vying for her affection.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-23-2022, 06:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Purely my speculation, but I don't know how much more improvement we'll really see with Volson when it comes to the limited athleticism.
I don't know how much faster he's going to be able to shift around laterally to handle stunts in bigger spaces or be able to climb to the second level.
He might be who he is in that regard.

Maybe a shift to keeping a tighter pocket could help him so that he doesn't have to move laterally as much.

I guess I don't see his athleticism being as poor as you do. I think his movement is just fine for a Guard.

Zeitler couldn't move worth a shit laterally and got paid the most of any Guard in the NFL at the time by the Stains.

Boling, now that guy could move and pull with the best of them. Same with Steinbech.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-24-2022, 01:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I guess I don't see his athleticism being as poor as you do. I think his movement is just fine for a Guard.

Zeitler couldn't move worth a shit laterally and got paid the most of any Guard in the NFL at the time by the Stains.

Boling, now that guy could move and pull with the best of them. Same with Steinbech.

The Bengals offensive scheme didn't require nearly the same athleticism back when Zeitler played compared to now.
And Zeitler went to a mauling, road-grading offense, which is what he's more suited for.
If you put him in an offense that would have required a lot of movement, he wouldn't have been as successful.

If Pollack's/Zac's plan is to have the offense be more of a running downhill offense, I think Volson will be more successful.
But he's definitely limited laterally.