ESPN QB rankings

[Nepa]

Rankings by ESPN analysts in 10 categories.

Here is where Joe Burrow is ranked:

Arm Strength. Not among top 10, but did get at least one vote
Accuracy: 3rd
Touch: 4th
Mechanics: 3rd
Field Vision: 4th
Decision-making with the football: Tied for 5th
Compete level: 5th
Toughness: 5th (really? with all those sacks and coming back from a major injury?)
Pocket presence: 4th
Scrambling: Not among top 10, but did get at least one vote
Designed-run ability: Not among top 10
Second-reaction ability: 9th


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34408660/nfl-quarterback-council-2022-ranking-top-10-qbs-arm-strength-accuracy-decision-making-rushing-ability-more

[TheFan]

(08-22-2022, 07:58 PM)Nepa Wrote: Rankings by ESPN analysts in 10 categories.

Here is where Joe Burrow is ranked:

Arm Strength. Not among top 10, but did get at least one vote
Accuracy: 3rd
Touch: 4th
Mechanics: 3rd
Field Vision: 4th
Decision-making with the football:  Tied for 5th
Compete level: 5th
Toughness: 5th   (really? with all those sacks and coming back from a major injury?)
Pocket presence: 4th
Scrambling:  Not among top 10, but did get at least one vote
Designed-run ability: Not among top 10
Second-reaction ability: 9th


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34408660/nfl-quarterback-council-2022-ranking-top-10-qbs-arm-strength-accuracy-decision-making-rushing-ability-more

That was an good read and interesting to see where people are ranked. 

I thought it was interesting that Burrow was rated higher than Herbert in every non-athletic category. 

Burrow was higher in accuracy, touch, mechanics, field vision, decision making, compete level, toughness, and pocket presence. 

Herbert was higher in arm strength, scrambling, and second reaction ability. 

I think both are going to be top 10 QBs for the next 10 years and both will play in a Superbowl so I don't mean this as a dig towards Herbert at all. Obviously both could improve in each category but I feel like Burrows are more sustainable (Herbert was in top 10 for all of them as well so it's not like he's a slouch in the others)

[fredtoast]

Sometmes rating QBs on scrambling ability can be tricky. There are very athletic QBs who can avoid a lot of sacks and pick up yards running the ball, but the real magic is when a QB can scramble in the pocket and still keep his eyes downfield to make a huge pass play. That is where guys like Burrow, Rodgers, Mahommes, and Watson can kill defenses. And I think Burrow can do it as well as anyone.

[Nepa]

(08-22-2022, 08:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sometmes rating QBs on scrambling ability can be tricky.  There are very athletic QBs who can avoid a lot of sacks and pick up yards running the ball, but the real magic is when a QB can scramble in the pocket and still keep his eyes downfield to make a huge pass play.  That is where guys like Burrow, Rodgers, Mahommes, and Watson can kill defenses.  And I think Burrow can do it as well as anyone.

There was a paragraph in the section on "scrambling," that stated Burrow was snubbed:

"Snubbed: Joe Burrow isn't going to kill teams as a runner, but he will make them chase him outside the pocket. Burrow is bigger than people seem to realize (6-4, 215 pounds), giving him a tricky combination of strength and short-area quickness to make the most of his sharp instincts. Burrow's magic outside the pocket played a huge role in Cincinnati's success last season, even if a lot of it came on scramble-drill throws rather than Burrow taking off to run. -- Schatz/Klassen"

[TheFan]

(08-22-2022, 08:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sometmes rating QBs on scrambling ability can be tricky.  There are very athletic QBs who can avoid a lot of sacks and pick up yards running the ball, but the real magic is when a QB can scramble in the pocket and still keep his eyes downfield to make a huge pass play.  That is where guys like Burrow, Rodgers, Mahommes, and Watson can kill defenses.  And I think Burrow can do it as well as anyone.

I think that's basically what they describe under "pocket presence". I think they have the pretty well differentiated between the two - unless I'm understanding you wrong. 

[fredtoast]

(08-22-2022, 08:52 PM)TheFan Wrote: I think that's basically what they describe under "pocket presence". I think they have the pretty well differentiated between the two - unless I'm understanding you wrong. 

I am talking about plays made outside of the pocket.

To me "pocket presence" is about moving around in the pocket, sensing pressure, and making throws from the pocket with pressure in your face.

Nothing like the "pocket presents" my Uncle Chester used to claim he had for me.

[TheFan]

(08-22-2022, 09:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am talking about plays made outside of the pocket.

To me "pocket presence" is about moving around in the pocket, sensing pressure, and making throws from the pocket with pressure in your face.

Nothing like the "pocket presents" my Uncle Chester used to claim he had for me.

Ahh I think I got confused by when you said "scramble in the pocket." 

Sorry about your Uncle Chester. 

[*pally*]

I think Joe will surprise a lot of pundits with how well and often he scrambles/runs this season. He was so limited the first half of the season last year. We saw glimpses of what he could do with his legs in the 2nd half. We will see more this season

[*psychdoctor*]

What quarterback is Rated tougher than Joe Burrow? He is the toughest quarterback that I have seen in years.

[KillerGoose]

(08-23-2022, 09:12 AM)pally Wrote: I think Joe will surprise a lot of pundits with how well and often he scrambles/runs this season.  He was so limited the first half of the season last year.  We saw glimpses of what he could do with his legs in the 2nd half.  We will see more this season

I agree. I think Burrow is going to firmly put himself ahead of QBs not named Mahomes this season. IIRC, after the huge loss to Cleveland in the middle of the season, advanced metrics had Burrow as the 2nd best QB to finish the season. I don't see a reason for that level of play to not continue.

[*pally*]

(08-23-2022, 10:14 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: What quarterback is Rated tougher than Joe Burrow? He is the toughest quarterback that I have seen in years.

Toughness

Toughness rolls into compete level a bit, but our analysts looked at a quarterback's bounce-back and resilience here, along with how well he can take a hit. Physicality is the big trait in this section.
1. Josh Allen, Bills
2. Lamar Jackson, Ravens
3. Patrick Mahomes, Chiefs
4. Matthew Stafford, Rams
5. Joe Burrow, Bengals
6. Russell Wilson, Broncos
7. Tom Brady, Buccaneers

[Nicomo Cosca]

Should have been higher in both accuracy and toughness.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Also, scrolling through the categories it’s exciting to think Burrow could very likely be #1 in many of them once Brady and Rodgers retire.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-23-2022, 10:14 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: What quarterback is Rated tougher than Joe Burrow? He is the toughest quarterback that I have seen in years.

(08-23-2022, 10:25 AM)pally Wrote: Toughness

Toughness rolls into compete level a bit, but our analysts looked at a quarterback's bounce-back and resilience here, along with how well he can take a hit. Physicality is the big trait in this section.
1. Josh Allen, Bills
2. Lamar Jackson, Ravens
3. Patrick Mahomes, Chiefs
4. Matthew Stafford, Rams
5. Joe Burrow, Bengals
6. Russell Wilson, Broncos
7. Tom Brady, Buccaneers

Yeah, the only quarterback I can think of tougher than Burrow is Aaron Rodgers. MAYBE Tom Brady, but Rodgers has had many a season with an offensive line nearly as bad as ours last year. 

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2022, 07:58 PM)Nepa Wrote: Rankings by ESPN analysts in 10 categories.

Here is where Joe Burrow is ranked:

Arm Strength. Not among top 10, but did get at least one vote
Accuracy: 3rd
Touch: 4th
Mechanics: 3rd
Field Vision: 4th
Decision-making with the football:  Tied for 5th
Compete level: 5th
Toughness: 5th   (really? with all those sacks and coming back from a major injury?)
Pocket presence: 4th
Scrambling:  Not among top 10, but did get at least one vote
Designed-run ability: Not among top 10
Second-reaction ability: 9th


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34408660/nfl-quarterback-council-2022-ranking-top-10-qbs-arm-strength-accuracy-decision-making-rushing-ability-more

Joe Burrow leads the league in completion percentage last year at 70.4% and somehow doesn't get the top spot in accuracy category?
Ok.

[KillerGoose]

(08-23-2022, 03:36 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yeah, the only quarterback I can think of tougher than Burrow is Aaron Rodgers. MAYBE Tom Brady, but Rodgers has had many a season with an offensive line nearly as bad as ours last year. 

Russell Wilson would be up there for me. 

[pdub2005]

(08-23-2022, 03:36 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yeah, the only quarterback I can think of tougher than Burrow is Aaron Rodgers. MAYBE Tom Brady, but Rodgers has had many a season with an offensive line nearly as bad as ours last year. 

His oline really was a stinker there for quite a few years.

[TheFan]

(08-23-2022, 03:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Joe Burrow leads the league in completion percentage last year at 70.4% and somehow doesn't get the top spot in accuracy category?
Ok.

Because 1 year is less than 15-20 years like the others. No way should he be ahead of Rodger's. 

[TheFan]

(08-23-2022, 03:36 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yeah, the only quarterback I can think of tougher than Burrow is Aaron Rodgers. MAYBE Tom Brady, but Rodgers has had many a season with an offensive line nearly as bad as ours last year. 

I can get the Allen argument because of the hits he takes/gives while running but Jackson makes no sense. Don't really get Mahomes either. 

Stafford, like Rodgers, had not the best Oline and got hit a lot for years so I kind of get that to. He's had a lot of gritty plays and fighting through injuries. 

[*ochocincos*]

(08-23-2022, 03:44 PM)TheFan Wrote: Because 1 year is less than 15-20 years like the others. No way should he be ahead of Rodger's. 

Brady's career completion percentage is 64.2%
Rodgers' career completion percentage is 65.3%

Burrow has only played two seasons, but he's already at 68.2%

I guess I shouldn't get too worked up. Brady and maybe Rodgers probably won't be playing in a couple years.