Reds September Game Thread

[kevin]

Noticed people still posting to August.

The best thing about September is the Reds awful season is coming to an end. They lost about every game in April and went Wire to Wire in Last Place, the opposite of the 1990 season. This will be one of the most forgettable seasons in Reds History.

There is one upside. The Joey Votto 10 year highest paid Red ever, No Trade Contract is coming to an end next season. Oh, they have an option for 2024 at a much lower pay scale. So I'm not sure if Joey Votto Retirement Day is at end of 2023 or 2024, but the Reds are about to free up payroll to where they don't have to cut every good player on the team each year to pay Votto. Hopefully the Reds NEVER make a 10 year No Trade contract again. So the good news is the Reds are coming to an end of this, one way or another.

When Ken Griffey Jr left the Reds, the Reds got better in having money for more new players. The same will happen when Joey Votto moves on. The Reds probably have one more bleak season next year, but at least by Christmas of 2023 they could have some player moves to put a good team on the field in 2024. Then they could maybe turn things around as the last place Bengals did.

Also, when do they dump The Moose contract, another over paid player holding this team back. Small Market Cincinnati has had to cut good players to keep bad over paid players which creates no escape from Last Place. However Small Market Cincinnati is about to free up a ton of payroll as Bengals did. The Reds would be wise to copy how Tampa Rays make contracts, and Reds get away from signing long high priced contracts.

[cinci4life]

Except they aren't even in last place right now so it can't be wire to wire.

[TecmoBengals]

The best part of the season is Votto talking baseball in the booth with Larkin.

[ATOTR]

(09-06-2022, 02:55 AM)kevin Wrote: There is one upside. The Joey Votto 10 year highest paid Red ever, No Trade Contract is coming to an end next season.  Oh, they have an option for 2024 at a much lower pay scale.  So I'm not sure if Joey Votto Retirement Day is at end of 2023 or 2024, but the Reds are about to free up payroll to where they don't have to cut every good player on the team each year to pay Votto.  Hopefully the Reds NEVER make a 10 year No Trade contract again.  So the good news is the Reds are coming to an end of this, one way or another.  

This is wrong.  The 2024 is a buyout - not an option. The reds will have to pay him 7Million not to show up in 2024, and make 20 Million. 

So, they will save 13M. 

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(09-06-2022, 03:22 PM)ATOTR Wrote: This is wrong.  The 2024 is a buyout - not an option. The reds will have to pay him 7Million not to show up in 2024, and make 20 Million. 

So, they will save 13M. 

I thought that it was $5M but I'll take it. Unless he comes back hitting .300 again next season, which he won't, give him his $7M the moment it's allowed and move on. He's basically sucked since he last challenged for MVP except for a few brief periods. He came into Spring Training the next season with that stupid practice check swing three to ten times per at bat and has been in the worst stretch of his career ever since.

[fredtoast]

(09-06-2022, 03:37 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  He's basically sucked since he last challenged for MVP except for a few brief periods. 

Do you consider an entire season a "brief period"?

Because last year he finished 4th in the NL in both Home Runs (36) and Slugging Percentage (.563).  He was 16th in MVP voting.

[ATOTR]

(09-06-2022, 03:37 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I thought that it was $5M but I'll take it. Unless he comes back hitting .300 again next season, which he won't, give him his $7M the moment it's allowed and move on. He's basically sucked since he last challenged for MVP except for a few brief periods. He came into Spring Training the next season with that stupid practice check swing three to ten times per at bat and has been in the worst stretch of his career ever since.

He has made 100 Mill over the last 4 seasons, and is averaging less than 1 WAR per year over that span.  Brutal.  And that is with his solid 2021 factored in. 

3.5 Total WAR (2019-2022).   Ouch 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/joey-votto/4314/stats?position=1B

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

30 games left . . . 28 are division matchups.

9 against the Cubs, who have a two game lead over the Reds for 3rd place, final six games against Cubs.
7 against the Brewers
5 against the Cardinals, all in one series
7 against the Pirates, who the Reds lead by 4.5 games for 4th
2 against the Red Sox for Tommy Pham's return to Cincinnati

Next week, The Reds play nine games. Doubleheader on Tuesday vs the Pirates and also on Saturday @ the Cardinals. Months ago, Connor Overton was scheduled to be back in September. Sure would be a good time to get him back. I hope he hasn't had any set-backs. Scheduled starters vs Pittsburgh are Cessa and TBA.

Pirates series starts the day after the Steelers @ Bengals. I'm curious how many Pirates fans will make it a long weekend trip. Monday's game may suck.

[cinci4life]

Might have a cycle watch on our hands. Farmer is 2-2 with a triple and a homer. The 2 hard ones are out of the way.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(09-06-2022, 04:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you consider an entire season a "brief period"?

Because last year he finished 4th in the NL in both Home Runs (36) and Slugging Percentage (.563).  He was 16th in MVP voting.

Joey Votto's 2021 Game Logs

Nine homers came in a seven game stretch. The 32 games before that? Four.

August 21st through September 7th, 16 games, zero home runs.
September 8th through end of season, 19 games, eight home runs.

Almost half of his home runs came in two brief periods with a total of 26 games.

[fredtoast]

(09-06-2022, 09:36 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  The 32 games before that? Four.

Over those 32 games he hit .302 with a .402 OB% and .478 SLG%.

His .880 OPS over that period would have ranked in the top 20 for the season.

You call that "sucking"?

[ATOTR]

I call 3.5 war over 4 years sucking.

While making 100m. What a franchise crippling contract.

Only 32 mill more to go!

[fredtoast]

(09-06-2022, 11:09 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I call 3.5 war over 4 years sucking.

Votto has 4.6 WAR over "4 years" if you are counting this current one.

If not then he has 8.5 over the 4 previous seasons.

Joey Votto Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

[ATOTR]

(09-06-2022, 11:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Votto has 4.6 WAR over "4 years" if you are counting this current one.

If not then he has 8.5 over the 4 previous seasons.

Joey Votto Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Ill go back to ignoring you - but I did need to correct your hilarious math. 

You see WAR is positive and negative, so you need to add them all together. 

I am including his current season of 2022 in the the last 4 years. 

He has a -.9 WAR this year.   

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/joey-votto/4314/stats?position=1B

3.7 WAR over 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022

Just Awful 

[fredtoast]

(09-06-2022, 11:48 PM)ATOTR Wrote: Ill go back to ignoring you - but I did need to correct your hilarious math. 

You see WAR is positive and negative, so you need to add them all together. 

I am including his current season of 2022 in the the last 4 years. 

He has a -.9 WAR this year.   

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/joey-votto/4314/stats?position=1B

3.7 WAR over 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022

Just Awful 

So WAR is calculated differently by different sources? That is ridiculous.

If it is a different calculation then it should have a different name.

[ATOTR]

(09-07-2022, 09:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So WAR is calculated differently by different sources? That is ridiculous.

If it is a different calculation then it should have a different name.

Even if you use your 4.6 (Baseball Reference does not count defense/base running as much as Fangrpahs, thus the difference). 

Does it really matter?

3.7 WAR over 4 years fangrahs

Or 4.6 over 4 years baseball reff. 

they are both still awful, especially for 100M spent

Joey Votto has been really bad over the last 4 years.  Even with a fluke 2021

 

[fredtoast]

(09-07-2022, 11:28 AM)ATOTR Wrote: Even if you use your 4.6 (Baseball Reference does not count defense/base running as much as Fangrpahs, thus the difference). 

Does it really matter?

It matters if you try to claim that he sucked in 2021.

I agree Votto's production has dropped.  He is not worth what he is being paid.

But I still try to respect the truth.  It is silly to claim that he sucked in 2021.

[guyofthetiger]

Reds win 4-3 today on a comeback in the top of the 9th. Nice to grab the W. The big problem is the game was telecast on Youtube TV instead of cable. Now it's on to Milwaukee.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Friedl had a day to forget in the field. Yeesh, that was difficult to watch him battle the sun.

Cessa looks much more settled in as a starter than he ever did in the pen. Pretty calm where coming out of the pen, he seemed pretty tense.

Alejo Lopez with the clutch 9th inning triple to tie the game and then scored the winning run on India's 3rd hit. Lopez needs to play more. Move India to Left or 3rd because he still struggles at 2nd, which is not a knock on him. He just learned to play 2nd in Spring training last year.

I would seriously talk to Farmer about converting to Full Time backup Catcher/DH. He's a great and valuable player but this team is about to spring a bunch of young players into the main positions he plays currently led by Steer. Imagine the numbers from the catchers position they'd get with Stephenson and Farmer both playing mostly a full season.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-06-2022, 03:22 PM)ATOTR Wrote: This is wrong.  The 2024 is a buyout - not an option. The reds will have to pay him 7Million not to show up in 2024, and make 20 Million. 

So, they will save 13M. 

(09-06-2022, 03:37 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I thought that it was $5M but I'll take it. Unless he comes back hitting .300 again next season, which he won't, give him his $7M the moment it's allowed and move on. He's basically sucked since he last challenged for MVP except for a few brief periods. He came into Spring Training the next season with that stupid practice check swing three to ten times per at bat and has been in the worst stretch of his career ever since.

Yes as soon as they can buy him out run to do it. Votto had a great career but he's been an anchor dragging this team down for years.