My Theory as to our Offensive Ineptitude

[Essex Johnson]

(09-19-2022, 01:06 PM)Joelist Wrote: There are overlapping issues. Some are Burrow who for some weird reason is not displaying pocket awareness. Some on the linemen who are making lots of mental mistakes - they aren't getting physically beat it is mental things like missing the extra rusher and failing to pick stunts up. And a LOT is on the design of the offense as follows:

1) The playbook appears to have no cover 2 beaters DESPITE such pass concepts being decades old and proven effective. When we finally did a couple of quick slants to Chase I almost died of shock.

2) The offense is way too vanilla and way too easy for defenses to pickup the run/pass element. Sunday we passed exactly one time with Burrow under Center - every other play was a run. Likewise on Shotgun the lean was HEAVILY towards pass. Giving the play away like this REALLY makes the job of the line harder and of the defense easier. We need a pro style offense that both runs and passes out of the same base formations.

I know #2 is totally wrong.. I only had to watch the first two series to prove it incorrect.  Burrow the first 4 times he went under center, we passed twice, ran a reverse and mixon once... 

[THE PISTONS]

Pundits before the draft: The Bengals will ruin Joe's career! Sucks for him to go there.

Year 1: Major knee injury. Got sacked a bunch.
Year 2: Got sacked a huge amount.
Year 3: Looks totally rattled in the pocket. Looks totally broken. Although it's early.

[*ochocincos*]

My theory - the offense got bailed out heavily from a few big plays last year to win some games they probably wouldn't have otherwise.
Taylor still looks like the same playcaller he was in 2019-2020.
The OL is just as bad as, if not worse than, the previous few years.

You also can't expect the offense to perform well when the QB and the OL didn't really play together at all before the start of the season.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-19-2022, 01:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: My theory - the offense got bailed out heavily from a few big plays last year to win some games they probably wouldn't have otherwise.
Taylor still looks like the same playcaller he was in 2019-2020.
The OL is just as bad as, if not worse than, the previous few years.

You also can't expect the offense perform well when the QB and the OL didn't really play together at all before the start of the season.

Yep. Last year was all Burrow and Chase. This year...teams are taking that away.

Taylor is still a bad playcaller. But he rooked the Browns into paying him $40 million.

[kronadon]

(09-19-2022, 10:13 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think the way Burrow looks is more concerning than the OL itself. Joe looks terrible. He's dropping his eyes, not looking downfield, not going through progressions, etc...even when he has a clean pocket.

Dude is broken right now. Its really sad to see tbh.

i had a conversation this morning where i had to admit I'm getting some klingler vibes out of Burrow. I'm not saying burrow is washed up or he is no good. what i see is Burrow is first reading the oline, then the receivers. In my opinion he is holding the ball too long, and he is not making the correct reads. its a mix between running for his life and seeing ghosts.

It does not help the play calling has been hot garbage either. my PTSD from Bratkowski is flaring up.

[fortyyearfan]

(09-19-2022, 11:34 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I'm not sure what's exactly wrong with this team, but I think I found a clue while on Reddit.  4 lineman blocking 1 guy and Micah running free?  Not good.

(Sorry if this has been posted already)

Bottom line,and all of us know this,this O-line is just awlful,Collins and Johna  Williams are getting beat almost every play and Williams got hammered a ton last year.He needs to be a backup,dude gets beat always.Not strong enough and Collins is SLOW people . Until the coaching staff makes a change,Burrow is going to be sacked ALOT. I know most of you great fans agree with me.I watched the tape after another loss and I can see this,so can the coaches.Our O-line coach can only coach them up so far,the rest is up to them.And we got scammed by taking Collins,he is a bust.Of course,My opinion folks

[Soonerpeace]

(09-19-2022, 01:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. Last year was all Burrow and Chase. This year...teams are taking that away.

Taylor is still a bad playcaller. But he rooked the Browns into paying him $40 million.

Rooked the Browns? Seriously?

[fortyyearfan]

(09-19-2022, 02:09 PM)kronadon Wrote: i had a conversation this morning where i had to admit I'm getting some klingler vibes out of Burrow. I'm not saying burrow is washed up or he is no good. what i see is Burrow is first reading the oline, then the receivers. In my opinion he is holding the ball too long, and he is not making the correct reads. its a mix between running for his life and seeing ghosts.

It does not help the play calling has been hot garbage either. my PTSD from Bratkowski is flaring up.

I truly believe Burrow is tired of getting sacked and one of these sacks is going to knock him out of playing for many games. And Joe Mixon does not look like Joe of last year. and he is tired of trying to run through five defenders all game. I believe our QB is sick of sacks and is playing timid back there behind a terrible line.This line is worse than last years.Watch Collins in NY,dude gets beat all game and so does the left tackle.Sad to watch,Williams should be replaced NOW.but he is ZACS boy.Go figure.

[Tony]

(09-19-2022, 10:34 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I get why they are running the ball. They are trying to get teams out of the two high safety looks. 

The problem is that they can't run the ball. They need to find a way to run the ball and have success on short intermediate passing. That will take teams out of the two high looks. 

This 100%.. They can't run the ball and Burrow is struggling with cover 2 along with the pressure. The blueprint is out..

[Tony]

(09-19-2022, 01:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Pundits before the draft: The Bengals will ruin Joe's career! Sucks for him to go there.

Year 1: Major knee injury. Got sacked a bunch.
Year 2: Got sacked a huge amount.
Year 3: Looks totally rattled in the pocket. Looks totally broken. Although it's early.

We all know that's what is going on.. Joe has never looked as shook as he is now.. The hits and abuse have 100% taken a toll.. He's playing sped up no matter if there is pressure or not... He keeps taking this abuse and we are getting another season of Allen..

[Bengalstripes9]

(09-19-2022, 10:13 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think the way Burrow looks is more concerning than the OL itself. Joe looks terrible. He's dropping his eyes, not looking downfield, not going through progressions, etc...even when he has a clean pocket.

Dude is broken right now. Its really sad to see tbh.

Honestly, this isn't any different than last year when we played teams with elite pass rushes. We slowly figured out answers for it and were able to be productive enough to win late in games. But Burrow has always been running for his life with no time to settle into plays.

Taylor is right that they all need to settle down a bit. The offensive line looks shaky against elite talent right now. They still could improve in time to make a run. Burrow doesn't look his best right now.  I thought last game he panicked and made some terrible throws. This past game I thought he did the best he could with the space he was given, and didn't make any mistakes other than the fumble we recovered. 

I think we'll see improvement as the year goes on from the oline and Burrow. I'm not panicking until we lose to the Jets. If we lose next week I'd say our season is basically done. We would have to be flawless the rest of the way pretty much. The Jets are a good team, but they aren't elite like we are supposed to be.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-19-2022, 02:34 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Rooked the Browns? Seriously?

Yeah, apparently Taylor tried so hard to scam Mike Brown, he almost Bialystock and Bloomed his way to a Super Bowl victory.

[ezekiel23]

(09-19-2022, 10:35 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: It's troublesome for sure. Looks like he lacks confidence which is not like him. His first throw to start the season was a pick-6. Not a great way to start but has to shake that shit off. If that's not it then something else seems to be holding him back. I'm not confident he plays well against the Jets next week but if he does, I will know I'm full of crap.

I think the week before against the Steelers was still impacting him,as he was credited with 5 turnovers,and really had him off his game.He hadn’t fully recovered from that game mentally,and then at the very start of the game,here come the Cowboys blitzing away,and picking up where the Steelers left off.Hence,his conservative play,and uncertainty as a result.

[Soonerpeace]

(09-19-2022, 03:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yeah, apparently Taylor tried so hard to scam Mike Brown, he almost Bialystock and Bloomed his way to a Super Bowl victory.

Ha ha he almost replaced McVay at the Rams but he ending up nixing a lucrative TV deal

[Nepa]

(09-19-2022, 11:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: I’ll give my ”football guy” take.

The reason they are running so much early is because teams are giving us two high looks. Essentially this means that the safeties are for the most part out of the run game and you should have an advantage in the box for blocking. Teams are doing this because it’s letting them take the deep game away and requires us to run well and be patient which we have have proven to be neither. This is the exact same thing the Chiefs experienced last year and struggled with early in the season.

The blocking issues are a combination of poor communication, for example the no attempt on Parsons where Collins blocked down instead of out appeared to be that he didn’t get the call. Bengals had moved Sample down on an “Ali” check which means he’d take the first double mug defender and punch them in the mouth allowing the others to fan outward. I don’t know how loud it was in there but there were multiple times you could see Joe talking to a lineman and pointing at his ears as to say “listen”.

The bigger issue is they know teams are giving them variations of cover 2 but haven’t done anything to attack cover two. Last week we went with a smash concept to open the game and it got picked, but the concept was right it was just a great play by Fitzpatrick. We went back to it only once by my count this week and it did work. Additionally they need to run more clear outs, the short middle is open and we see Chase have success with the slants but why we go away from it I have no clue. If they’d set Hurst inside and run a streak to carry the middle defender it would be even more open for running after the catch.

Bottom line there are issues all over the offense. They almost need to scrap the whole thing and start over but that’s a tough thing to do in season.

Side note: thought I posted this an hour ago and just noticed it not posted so apologies if most of this has been hashed out now.

That was very insightful. Thank you.

[Nepa]

(09-19-2022, 11:40 AM)Sled21 Wrote: What Joe said....

Burrow's comment is reassuring. It's clear that he understands what needs to be done. He gives me confidence that it will get fixed sooner rather than later. (Well, sooner should have been before now, but after three straight losses, at least it seems they will adjust.)

[THE PISTONS]

(09-19-2022, 11:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: I’ll give my ”football guy” take.

The reason they are running so much early is because teams are giving us two high looks. Essentially this means that the safeties are for the most part out of the run game and you should have an advantage in the box for blocking. Teams are doing this because it’s letting them take the deep game away and requires us to run well and be patient which we have have proven to be neither. This is the exact same thing the Chiefs experienced last year and struggled with early in the season.

The blocking issues are a combination of poor communication, for example the no attempt on Parsons where Collins blocked down instead of out appeared to be that he didn’t get the call. Bengals had moved Sample down on an “Ali” check which means he’d take the first double mug defender and punch them in the mouth allowing the others to fan outward. I don’t know how loud it was in there but there were multiple times you could see Joe talking to a lineman and pointing at his ears as to say “listen”.

The bigger issue is they know teams are giving them variations of cover 2 but haven’t done anything to attack cover two. Last week we went with a smash concept to open the game and it got picked, but the concept was right it was just a great play by Fitzpatrick. We went back to it only once by my count this week and it did work. Additionally they need to run more clear outs, the short middle is open and we see Chase have success with the slants but why we go away from it I have no clue. If they’d set Hurst inside and run a streak to carry the middle defender it would be even more open for running after the catch.

Bottom line there are issues all over the offense. They almost need to scrap the whole thing and start over but that’s a tough thing to do in season.

Side note: thought I posted this an hour ago and just noticed it not posted so apologies if most of this has been hashed out now.

There are soo many ways to beat Cover 2. It's like a basic defense.

Zac is in Year 4! He's an offensive guru supposedly.

[Au165]

(09-19-2022, 06:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are soo many ways to beat Cover 2. It's like a basic defense.

Zac is in Year 4! He's an offensive guru supposedly.

KC/Mahomes/Reid struggled with it last year. There are multiple variations NFL teams run that are matching concepts that convert from zone spot drops to match that make it far more complex then what people may recognize from high school football.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

We have lost 2 close games not the time to abandon ship. especially with the number of starters that missed extended time in Training camp. Burrow, Tee, Cappa , Lael, Logan and Bates

[TheFan]

(09-20-2022, 06:37 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: We have lost 2 close games not the time to abandon ship. especially with the number of starters that missed extended time in Training camp. Burrow, Tee, Cappa , Lael, Logan and Bates

We lost against 2 mediocre teams without QBs. Cowboys were missing like 3 starters including their QB. If this was against the top tier teams we're going to face later in the season we're having completely different conversations. 

The reaction so far through 2 games seems pretty fair with how terrible we have played.

Even if we turn it around and go 10-5 the rest of the way. How awfully prepared our coaches and players have been for these games is unacceptable.