Cover 2/Tampa 2 and how to beat it

[BleedNOrange]

They know exactly what defenses are going to throw at them and still can't figure out how to beat it. This is beyond worrisome.

Offense was so inconsistent last year but at least would hit big plays. They are so, so bad.

[Housh]

(09-20-2022, 02:10 PM)BleedNOrange Wrote: They know exactly what defenses are going to throw at them and still can't figure out how to beat it. This is beyond worrisome.

Offense was so inconsistent last year but at least would hit big plays. They are so, so bad.

You start by feeding Jamarr Chase.




We don’t target him enough

I know he had 10 game one but i think he only had 3 in Dallas and last year i took offense to a coupe games where it seemed like the gameplan was to purposely not get him the ball. We should be forcing him touches like Green Bay did for DeVantae Adams. If you are doing that then what D the opponent comes out in doesn’t even really matter. Cover 1, 2, 3 or 4 it doesn’t matter. If you know you are feeding Jamarr at least once a series then that’s one play where you at least have that consistency.

[higgy100]

(09-20-2022, 02:10 PM)BleedNOrange Wrote: They know exactly what defenses are going to throw at them and still can't figure out how to beat it.  This is beyond worrisome.  

Offense was so inconsistent last year but at least would hit big plays.  They are so, so bad.

Are they really sure they know what defenses are throwing at them?

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2022, 02:10 PM)BleedNOrange Wrote: They know exactly what defenses are going to throw at them and still can't figure out how to beat it.  This is beyond worrisome.  

Offense was so inconsistent last year but at least would hit big plays.  They are so, so bad.

Sounded like from what Taylor was saying was that they didn't expect the Cowboys to play Tampa 2 and they scripted plays for the first half that Tampa 2 worked well against.


I would hope/think adjustments can be made much quicker than waiting until halftime, but maybe not?

[BigPapaKain]

(09-20-2022, 02:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sounded like from what Taylor was saying was that they didn't expect the Cowboys to play Tampa 2 and they scripted plays for the first half that Tampa 2 worked well against.


I would hope/think adjustments can be made much quicker than waiting until halftime, but maybe not?

Then you flip the script.

That's what I don't get here. They play better in the second half, but does it really take 15 minutes to say 'what we're doing isn't working, let's try X'?

[impactplaya]

It's apparent Zac has issues to adjusting
On the go. Yeah at halftime any coach can adjust
But in the heat of a game that's a different animal

[Au165]

(09-20-2022, 02:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sounded like from what Taylor was saying was that they didn't expect the Cowboys to play Tampa 2 and they scripted plays for the first half that Tampa 2 worked well against.


I would hope/think adjustments can be made much quicker than waiting until halftime, but maybe not?

Mentioned this in another thread. Game plans for a week may only include another 15 plays or so beyond the first 20-25 scripted plays. They usually plan to come back to some of the scripted plays that worked or swap some of those 15 in. When a game plan is absolutley shot you can sometimes go to other gameplans you have installed in the past but I do wonder how much they could do that with all the new O line faces along with Hurst. 

This is a case where the game plans each week are going to have to include a special cover 2 package of 5-7 plays no matter what teams show on their tape. It is odd for teams to go SO far out of tendency but I guess that should be taken as a compliment. I would have liked to have seen some bunch formations though as this defense was a bit new to the Dallas guys and there are so many checks to a bunch that odds of creating a blown assignment go way up. If we didn't have any we didn't have any but there are certain formations like bunch I'd like to see more often used.

[TheFan]

(09-20-2022, 02:29 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Then you flip the script.

That's what I don't get here. They play better in the second half, but does it really take 15 minutes to say 'what we're doing isn't working, let's try X'?

No, for this staff it takes 30 apparently 

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2022, 02:29 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Then you flip the script.

That's what I don't get here. They play better in the second half, but does it really take 15 minutes to say 'what we're doing isn't working, let's try X'?

I would think it shouldn't take that long, but I've never played organized football at any level, so I don't know.

[R3stangs]

(09-20-2022, 12:09 PM)Joelist Wrote: And which is wrong. This is debunked in another thread - Burrow is getting more than 3 seconds per pass play. 

Not sure an overall average is telling the whole story. Hes had more free runners coming at him than any other games I can remember. And getting 6 seconds on 1 play and 1 second the next gives me over a 3 second average. But my QB just got killed on one of them.

I'm just sayings i've watched guys come completely untouched multiple times in two games on him.

[J24]

(09-20-2022, 01:52 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Watt and Parsons aside, the Steelers and Cowboys aren't good teams.  And we had no issue defeating the Steelers last year.  If the Bengals aren't able to defeat teams with an elite defender, this is a third place team at best.  

How are both teams not good teams? In particular both teams have excellent defenses.

Dallas was number 1 in DVOA last season, number 1 in turnovers, and top 10 in nearly every pass rushing stat.  Also they have a great defensive coordinator in Dan Quinn.

[Joelist]

(09-20-2022, 04:45 PM)R3stangs Wrote: Not sure an overall average is telling the whole story. Hes had more free runners coming at him than any other games I can remember. And getting 6 seconds on 1 play and 1 second the next gives me over a 3 second average. But my QB just got killed on one of them.

I'm just sayings i've watched guys come completely untouched multiple times in two games on him.

Which isn't happening. Burrow is getting 3+ seconds the VAST majority of snaps. This is part Burrow and part scheme - the scheme is wrong for the defense and they are doing nothing to address it. 

[WeezyBengal]

(09-20-2022, 12:09 PM)Joelist Wrote: And which is wrong. This is debunked in another thread - Burrow is getting more than 3 seconds per pass play. 

That doesn't mean the OL deficiency over the past two years isn't catching up to him in other ways. He isn't going through progressions, staying in the pocket, and setting his feet. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-20-2022, 05:18 PM)Joelist Wrote: Which isn't happening. Burrow is getting 3+ seconds the VAST majority of snaps. This is part Burrow and part scheme - the scheme is wrong for the defense and they are doing nothing to address it. 

There are at least three videos on Twitter of Joe ignoring multiple wide open targets underneath the zone. Seems people are schemed open to me. .

I'm not saying there isn't more to be desired from the staff, but when they give you something to get five yards a crack with a pitch and catch, I'm looking at the guy throwing the ball. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-20-2022, 02:32 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's apparent Zac has issues to adjusting
On the go. Yeah at  halftime any coach can adjust
But in the heat of a game that's a different animal

IDK, I remember 16 years of no journalistic jargons...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-21-2022, 12:09 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: There are at least three videos on Twitter of Joe ignoring multiple wide open targets underneath the zone. Seems people are schemed open to me. .

I'm not saying there isn't more to be desired from the staff, but when they give you something to get five yards a crack with a pitch and catch, I'm looking at the guy throwing the ball. 

I wouldn’t really consider check downs being “schemed open.”

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-21-2022, 12:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I wouldn’t really consider check downs being “schemed open.”

Likely not, but when you have a zone that far off with no safety help in the box, and LBs playing back, those guys are open as a result. Take the five yards. When teams weren't playing back last year, players were open down field way more often. Remember the long TD to Chase against KC? He couldn't have been more open... Boyd on a couple long TDs DEN/BAL, Tee against Pitt, and these are just off the top of my head. Defenses are daring us to throw the check down and run the ball. We're doing neither. It's there, but the Jimmy's and Joe's ain't getting it done. They eliminated the turnovers in DAL, let's hope they take the next step this week. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-21-2022, 12:21 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Likely not, but when you have a zone that far off with no safety help in the box, and LBs playing back, those guys are open as a result. Take the five yards. When teams weren't playing back last year, players were open down field way more often. Remember the long TD to Chase against KC? He couldn't have been more open... Boyd on a couple long TDs DEN/BAL, Tee against Pitt, and these are just off the top of my head. Defenses are daring us to throw the check down and run the ball. We're doing neither. It's there, but the Jimmy's and Joe's ain't getting it done. They eliminated the turnovers in DAL, let's hope they take the next step this week. 

That hole shot to Chase is precisely the kind of plays we should be seeing right now too with the coverages they’re facing.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-21-2022, 12:51 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That hole shot to Chase is precisely the kind of plays we should be seeing right now too with the coverages they’re facing.

Would be nice.... there's so much going wrong right now, it's hard to pinpoint the biggest issue!

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-21-2022, 12:09 AM)Wyche Wrote: There are at least three videos on Twitter of Joe ignoring multiple wide open targets underneath the zone. Seems people are schemed open to me. .

I'm not saying there isn't more to be desired from the staff, but when they give you something to get five yards a crack with a pitch and catch, I'm looking at the guy throwing the ball.

Yep

There's a play in the Steeler game where Boyd is running wide the hell open on a slant and Joe had time to hit him. But he crashes out of the pocket and gets sacked.

I love Joe Burrow, he's one of if not the best thing that's ever happened to Cincinnati ! But these first two games he has most definitely been part of the problem.

I have complete faith he'll come out of it/ I'm just hoping it's sooner rather than later.