Do we need Offensive Lineman In The 2023 Draft

[WVUHomer]

(12-15-2022, 01:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Everyone knows I love Mater and think that he'd improve the protection for Burrow by giving him a safety net, as well as improving Chase's game by keeping safeties from doubling him.

Because of how poor we've been at drafting linemen, I'd rather just sign free agent linemen who are proven so we don't risk a bust in the first or even a guy that doesn't live up to expectations and sets us back for another four or five years.

We KNOW what we'd be getting with Mayer and how much that will improve our team.

Considering on how much OL contracts are raising and how expensive our team is soon to be, that's just not a fully fundamental option. 

Unless you're willing to trade Boyd and Higgins (speculation on my part from the man crush it feels [we must get him at all costs, even by trading up!]), cheaper contracts have to come from somewhere. Armstead (with massive injury concerns and signed late in the process) is making $15M APY. Getting another piece on a price controlled contract is a smart move. 

And with how they found Volson this year, I feel more confident going forward they can find someone to fit the scheme they want to run (not saying wait until that round). It feels like for the past 2.5 years, they were mixing and matching styles until recently it feels like they can all fire off in unison play as a unit. If you can reload with younger talent to grow together, may work out better for our long run tenure than forcing the local kid for a position that as of yet, we haven't used exclusively (not saying they won't but Uzo and Hurst are 4/5/6th receiving options, if not further which to me doesn't constitute a 1st round). I say this as someone who does pick for us in mocks but only if he fell, not as a trade up candidate.

[SunsetBengal]

I could see the Bengals going LT in the 1st round, if one they like is available when they pick. If not LT, I would anticipate CB or DL with that 1st round pick. I could also see the Bengals doubling down on Tackle, as Collins has never seemed to fully regain his form from his pre-injury days in Dallas.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-15-2022, 03:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I could see the Bengals going LT in the 1st round, if one they like is available when they pick.  If not LT, I would anticipate CB or DL with that 1st round pick. I could also see the Bengals doubling down on Tackle, as Collins has never seemed to fully regain his form from his pre-injury days in Dallas.

It will be real interesting to see what they ultimately think of Jonah Williams.
Jonah hasn't allowed a sack since the CAR game before the bye week.
Just 6 total pressures across the last 4 games.
And those games haven't been against slouch pass rushers, they've been against PIT, TEN, KC, and CLE.

If the Bengals do want to keep Jonah, it definitely could still make sense to take an OT early who can serve as a swing OT for the next couple years until Collins is off the books.

[WVUHomer]

(12-15-2022, 03:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It will be real interesting to see what they ultimately think of Jonah Williams.
Jonah hasn't allowed a sack since the CAR game before the bye week.
Just 6 total pressures across the last 4 games.
And those games haven't been against slouch pass rushers, they've been against PIT, TEN, KC, and CLE.

If the Bengals do want to keep Jonah, it definitely could still make sense to take an OT early who can serve as a swing OT for the next couple years until Collins is off the books.

I would be interested in seeing if maybe Javon Foster comes out. Could be a developmental LT from Mizzou. Only watched one game (can't remember which but i think it was UT) but like enough what I saw. Held his end well except for a few plays. Best part is, he may be a 3rd rounder, not 1st.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-26-2022, 05:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: ...He's still playing below average for a starting OG...

Does that mean I'm looking to replace him with another draft pick? No.
But if a stud OL falls to Bengals in Rd 1 that I feel would immediately be an upgrade? I'd consider adding that player.

There are still two months (longer if playoffs), so Volson might develop into a solid starter by season's end. He's not there yet though, IMO.

I would add another OL, namely a big name OT. As we have seen Volson is now pretty damn good and might be the best rookie
OL in the NFL right now even if a bad snap flashes once in awhile, he makes up for it the next snap. Jonah is looking good now 
that he is looking healthy with the knee cap. But we might be able to do better than Jonah in another year, we will see.

(10-28-2022, 11:36 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Which is far too common with him.

He's decent but far from a franchise LT and certainly can be upgraded. 

Yes, but we gave him the option so Jonah will be here. Good thing too once we see how good he is when healthy.

(12-15-2022, 01:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Everyone knows I love Mater and think that he'd improve the protection for Burrow by giving him a safety net, as well as improving Chase's game by keeping safeties from doubling him.

Because of how poor we've been at drafting linemen, I'd rather just sign free agent linemen who are proven so we don't risk a bust in the first or even a guy that doesn't live up to expectations and sets us back for another four or five years.

We KNOW what we'd be getting with Mayer and how much that will improve our team.

Yeah, go FA for OL, Mayer is out of the question though Brad, we would have to trade up for him and it would cost us a lot as it 
looks like we will be picking around the 30th pick at worst from looking at this team right now.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-16-2022, 12:51 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would add another OL, namely a big name OT. As we have seen Volson is now pretty damn good and might be the best rookie
OL in the NFL right now even if a bad snap flashes once in awhile, he makes up for it the next snap. Jonah is looking good now 
that he is looking healthy with the knee cap. But we might be able to do better than Jonah in another year, we will see.


Yes, but we gave him the option so Jonah will be here. Good thing too once we see how good he is when healthy.


Yeah, go FA for OL, Mayer is out of the question though Brad, we would have to trade up for him and it would cost us a lot as it 
looks like we will be picking around the 30th pick at worst from looking at this team right now.

There are some good, not great, TE options behind Mayer that would could consider in Rds2-5. Kraft (South Dakota State), Washington (Georgia), Kincaid (Utah), Musgrave (Oregon State), Stover (Ohio State). But those guys would all be TE2 behind Hurst for me. Hurst + mid-round draftee + Wilcox would be a dandy TE room. Look to uograde TE1 when there is draft class with more top end talent. 

[Emeritus]

(12-07-2022, 09:53 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: To answer the OP: No.

We could pick one, surely. But all our OL guys are under contract next year except for Scharping (who is ourmost experienced reserve).

Jonah has been getting better the further he gets from that dislocated kneecap. Volson is improving. As is the line in general. It makes no cap sense to cut any OL player. The only reserve whose contract + dead cap hit minus replacement guy saves us any $$ is Scharping, and he's a FA. Carman is neutral if the rolacement is around $600k.

I hung in there with the best NFL board in the country and I'm still not a VIP.
https://youtu.be/Qoh3YkxuwVo

[*Go Cards*]

Could always use another OL but think a pass rusher is needed more presently.

[DYT_Bengal]

Jonah Williams + Jackson Carman were taken after Zach Taylor was hired. I'm still pro Jackson Carman - I think people would be saying differently if he was taken in the third round (needs more experience). It was unclear at the time if we needed a center - there has been a lot of mediocre players/busts I have seen taken recently (same draft too), that pick was hit out of the ballpark compared to the year we took Ogbuehi + the Oregon converted TE at LT.

[bk42]

All depends on their plans for Jonah. If they extend him, then I see their early rd draft picks going to other position next year and maybe the following year. Hopefully they can bring back Bell, Pratt, hurst and apple at reasonable prices - if they do, I’m guessing early picks go to: DT / DE / WR / RB over the next two years given upcoming free agents. The DT from Baylor reminds me of Reader

[*ochocincos*]

(12-16-2022, 04:12 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: There are some good, not great, TE options behind Mayer that would could consider in Rds2-5. Kraft (South Dakota State), Washington (Georgia), Kincaid (Utah), Musgrave (Oregon State), Stover (Ohio State). But those guys would all be TE2 behind Hurst for me. Hurst + mid-round draftee + Wilcox would be a dandy TE room. Look to uograde TE1 when there is draft class with more top end talent. 

Could also look to roll with Hurst for another year (or two) and maybe target Brock Bowers in the 2024 draft.
Bowers is a stud pass catcher but he can also block, despite being lighter than probably preferred.


I also think Washington could be a great fit with the Bengals and should (hopefully) be available on Day 2, but he's more in the mold of a guy like Freiermuth rather than Kyle Pitts.

[WVUHomer]

(12-20-2022, 03:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Could also look to roll with Hurst for another year (or two) and maybe target Brock Bowers in the 2024 draft.
Bowers is a stud pass catcher but he can also block, despite being lighter than probably preferred.


I also think Washington could be a great fit with the Bengals and should (hopefully) be available on Day 2, but he's more in the mold of a guy like Freiermuth rather than Kyle Pitts.

One of the channels I listen to mentioned they heard Washington could be a first round pick depending on his measurables. I've even seen mocks with him to us on 1. Don't like it. Don't like it at all.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-20-2022, 05:57 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: One of the channels I listen to mentioned they heard Washington could be a first round pick depending on his measurables. I've even seen mocks with him to us on 1. Don't like it. Don't like it at all.

Washington is a really big dude.
About the best size and length you could want in a TE.
He never really showed dominance as a pass catcher in college, but quite a few people believe it's because Brock Bowers was the primary pass catching TE so he didn't get as much opportunity.
If he can show really good athleticism and the ability to catch the ball cleanly, I could see him getting first round nods.
There's risk there for sure, but some teams choose potential over current ability at draft time (see Josh Allen).

[WVUHomer]

(12-20-2022, 07:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Washington is a really big dude.
About the best size and length you could want in a TE.
He never really showed dominance as a pass catcher in college, but quite a few people believe it's because Brock Bowers was the primary pass catching TE so he didn't get as much opportunity.
If he can show really good athleticism and the ability to catch the ball cleanly, I could see him getting first round nods.
There's risk there for sure, but some teams choose potential over current ability at draft time (see Josh Allen).

Thats also how you get Cedric O as a first rounder. I'd rather go with a higher floor than pure projection.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Zach's tendency has been to go with productive guys over physical specimen's/workout warriors.

Generally, I think it is a good philosophy. If a guy cannot figure it out in college, the likelihood he does in the pro's is remote. If you are a good football player, the tape should reflect that. Consistently. A guy who was not productive in college being productive in the pro's is a bad bet.

Now, it can lead to missing on some guys. I loved Tariq Woolen at CB last year. Off the chart measureables at CB. But a former WR who had not played CB very long. I'd have taken him over CTB for certain (who I thought was more a Rd 3 guy). But Woolen lasted until the 5th Round, and now he has, what, 6 picks? A lot of teams employ that same philosophy. But a position switcher is a time you might want to look to make an exception. Especially an offense to defense switch. I also liked Marcus Jones at CB (Rd 3 on) and the Pats nabbed him in Rd 3, but his size screamed slot, and with Hilton, Davis, and Hill in hand, I get not drafting a slot corner. But he is sticky enough to play outside some, already won a game on a punt return TD (on the last play) and played a little WR as well at Houston. The Bengals value good tacklers in the secondary, given our division, I get it. Plus, Lou plays a lot of zone.

[3wt]

Yes.

We do not have adequate depth at tackle and Collins has a consistent problem with injuries. The o line is just not there yet.

I mean I guess it would be BPA, but in my mind OT, CB and DT are the priorities.

[Emeritus]

The more I watch this Cody Mauch kid the more I happen to like. i don't really care who we drafted previously because its a totally different prospect. He's becoming one of my favorites.
https://youtu.be/dUl9Pxlfm9s
   

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-23-2022, 09:25 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

The more I watch this Cody Mauch kid the more I happen to like. i don't really care who we drafted previously because its a totally different prospect. He's becoming one of my favorites.
https://youtu.be/dUl9Pxlfm9s

I am in agreement. Mauch is probably Rd2. Rd3 possible, but I doubt it. 

[bk42]

Injury to Collins likely impacts this question a bit. Hope Adeniji plays strong and shows he can be trusted if needed going into next season. So many big free agent decisions coming up for bengals; hitting on early picks so critical. I really like the Baylor DT/NT but OT and CB could take priority

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-26-2022, 12:47 AM)bk42 Wrote: Injury to Collins likely impacts this question a bit.  Hope Adeniji plays strong and shows he can be trusted if needed going into next season.  So many big free agent decisions coming up for bengals; hitting on early picks so critical. I really like the Baylor DT/NT but OT and CB could take priority

Yes. I think how some of our depth pieces play down the stretch will impact things. 

1. OT/Adeniji.  

If he plays well, OT becomes less of a priority in Rd1 with Jonah & Collins both under contract next year. If Broderick Thomas is staring at us AND we are not enthralled with keeping Jonah, then we may takethe leap. I think a Rd2-Rd3 OT is a definite possibility in any case. If Adeniji plays poorly, Rd1-Rd3 OT becomes a near certainty. 

2. CB/CTB. 

Chido is coming off an injury. Apple, Flowers, & Davis are FAs. Hill can play a bit in the slot (or anywhere). CTB is fiesty but raw in coverage. I could see S in his future. If he gets smoother in coverage, we have a good one. Given the depth of the CB class (6 in 1st in most mocks) and our 3 FAs + Chido's injury, I see Rd1 CB as most likely. If CTB excels and Apple/Flowers are re-signed, probably not. Davis/Allan George decent in limited work. 

3. DE/Sample/Ossai. 

With Hendrickson & Hubbard signed (and Sample, Ossai, & Gunter), this is not a glaring need, but they play a ton of snaps when healthy. Sample has been a solid depth piece. He can kick inside as well. Had a great game last week, but has mostly excelled at being solid and in the right place all the time. The coaches love him. His spot on the roster is secure. He played 53/56 snaps last week with Trey iffy & Hubbard out. But some playmaking from DE is also needed. Which brings us to Ossai. He is more of a 3rd down specialist at this point. Coning off injury. His spot would seem secure and has made some splash plays (Mahones sack). A pick would be to upgrade Gunter and allow Sample/Hubbard to kick inside more on pass downs. If Cam & Joe play well, I doubt we go DE early, despite it being a deep class. If they struggle, then Rd1-Rd4 is certainly an option. 

4. DT/Carter. 

All of our DT/NT types are signed, like DE. Tupou & Tufele are solid backups for Reader, but uograding with Ika in Rd2 is not impossible. Still, I think DT is more of an issue than NT. I don't think we would give up on Carter after 1 year, and we like to move DEs inside in passing downs (Sample, Ossai, Hubbard). But Carter has not shown much for a guy who played some DE at Florida and Hill makes $10 mil. He is solid, but if we are looking to save money down the road, a DT who can push the pocket for cheaper, upgrade Carter, and push Hill long term should be on the menu. If they are happy with Carter, we do not do it this year. 

5. TE/Wilcox/Asiasi. 

Hurst and Sample are FAs. I think Wilcox has done enough to secure a roster spot next year and for us to be confortable with him as TE3, maybe TE2. But Sample never showed much and Asiasi has not either. TE1 is a tall order for Wilcox. If Hurst goes, we need a TE1. If he stays, TE2-3 could use an upgrade from Asiasi/Sample (who should be TE4 in my book, or gone). Mayer in Rd1 would be tempting. But there is some decent mid-round guys there. Kincaid, Kraft, etc. 

6. WR/Irwin/Taylor. 

Irwin is a FA but I think he has already answered the call. He should be back. And Taylor has been good in punts. When Boyd is out, we usually move Chase to the slot and put Irwin wide. Irwin is also a like for like swap if Higgins is out. And Tee becomes WR1 if Chase is out with Irwin at WR2. Taylor does not get a lot of WR snaps unless we are down 2 guys. 

Still, Irwin IS a FA. And Higgins will be due a huge raise soon. And Boyd is making $10 mil as WR3. And we don't have any real deep speed other than Chase. And while I love Irwin as WR4, I'm less enthusiastic at WR2. He is Tee's backup, not his replacement. A potential Higgins replacement, Boyd replacement, some speed, a PR/KR type who could replace Taylor now & maybe Boyd down the road, or a Morgan upgrade (if we want 6 WRs who can catch it) should all be on the table. The big 3 are here next year, but after that. Again, only Irwin & Taylor are FAs this year. 

If Bell or Pratt get away, then S and LB move up the charts. Ditto Perine at RB.