New week, another Zac apology for bad play call

[*bfine32*]

Kicking the FG there is playing not to lose

[Boomer Anderson]

(09-26-2022, 06:20 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right

The really stupid decision was not kicking the FG going up by 21 and all but putting the game on ice.

To the play itself I'm off the opinion when you have one yard to go Straight forward is nearly always a better answer. Why pitch the ball 3 yards backwards and expect to run 20 yards sideways with it allowing the entire defense time to get there ??

Agreed on both points!!!

[Soonerpeace]

(09-26-2022, 06:44 PM)Boomer Anderson Wrote: Agreed on both points!!!

They need to go over RG where Karras/Cappa/Collins are with Perine.

[Bengalstripes9]

(09-26-2022, 06:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Kicking the FG there is playing not to lose

Kicking the FG there is taking the points that they're giving you. Going for it at that point in the game with their lead and the way the defense is playing... It's just not necessary. It gives the Jets an opportunity to make a play when you can go up 3 scores with the kick. 

Of course, I have McPherson in fantasy and wanted them to kick it (or throw a touchdown pass). But yeah, if they are going to go for it,  come up with a better call. A sneak, quick run, or a pass with 4+ receivers out there would be what I'd look for. Or even a gadget play. They weren't fooling anyone with that toss..

[SunsetBengal]

(09-26-2022, 06:06 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This was actually a really interesting play because what it said to me was "Joe Burrow and/or Zac Taylor is not comfortable running QB sneaks, so we won't ever do it."

The reason I thought this was because look at this formation:



Their edges are split out way wide, The LDE is lined up over the tight end, their linebackers are 5 yards back, their safety is shading the right side at the line of scrimmage and the cornerback is currently moving across the formation to the short side to follow Chase.

They literally could have 4 on 2 blocked the two DTs and had Joe jog to the first down.

So, in my mind, if they couldn't see that easy conversion, it must be one of these things that they just don't want Joe to shove his head into the pile under any circumstance.

But then...they do a QB sneak on 3rd down later in the game. So, obviously, they have no problem doing it. It's crazy that they didn't check into it here.

Yeah, I think they could have allowed JB to sneak, or even just keep handing it to Perine in the 1 or 2 hole and he would have gotten 3-4 yards, clock keeps running, Jets souls continue to shrivel.

Edit: AND, it could have just went for a TD, as the Jets have 10 men within 5 yards of the LOS and the other at 10. If anyone breaks through the first wave, it's gone.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Ran the same play (or very similar) against LV in the playoffs....and it worked. Fourth down too, best I recall. But he's right, in this instance, it was the wrong call. Players like that kind of accountability from their coaches though.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-26-2022, 07:42 PM)Wyche Wrote: Ran the same play (or very similar) against LV in the playoffs....and it worked. Fourth down too, best I recall. But he's right, in this instance, it was the wrong call. Players like that kind of accountability from their coaches though.

Yes, and with that in mind, kudos to Zac Taylor for taking responsibility for that ill thought play call.  (especially after my thread calling him out for not taking the blame, last week)

[*Go Cards*]

(09-26-2022, 06:06 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This was actually a really interesting play because what it said to me was "Joe Burrow and/or Zac Taylor is not comfortable running QB sneaks, so we won't ever do it."

The reason I thought this was because look at this formation:



Their edges are split out way wide, The LDE is lined up over the tight end, their linebackers are 5 yards back, their safety is shading the right side at the line of scrimmage and the cornerback is currently moving across the formation to the short side to follow Chase.

They literally could have 4 on 2 blocked the two DTs and had Joe jog to the first down.

So, in my mind, if they couldn't see that easy conversion, it must be one of these things that they just don't want Joe to shove his head into the pile under any circumstance.

But then...they do a QB sneak on 3rd down later in the game. So, obviously, they have no problem doing it. It's crazy that they didn't check into it here.

Agree completely, when Joe walked to the LS and there were only two in the middle immediately thought he would see this and do a quick snap and get an easy 1st down. 

Then like you I thought maybe it was to protect Joe until they did the QB sneak later and I was like WTF. 

With that being said I still would have taken the FG without even thinking twice, being up by 3 scores in the second half is nothing to gamble away.

[ezekiel23]

(09-26-2022, 05:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Disagree. A FG would have put them up 21.

Chase now has 10 career carries for 23 yards and 3 first downs.

6 of the 10 carries have gone for 0 or negative yards.

So,after all those disastrous attempts,do you think he’ll try it again? Probably.

[*Go Cards*]

On Zac, I agree with him that it was a bad play call in that situation and it's not his first one.

Applaud him for accepting blame and hopefully he is learning from these mistakes and growing.

Believe like Bengalfan74 (think he was the one) that Zac is a good HC already and only really lacks in play calling.

Could be solved with a good OC that calls plays or Zac growing into it as well imo.

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-26-2022, 05:18 PM)impactplaya Wrote: The toss was to the short side of the field
It is so much easier to hem in a ball for a defender
Zac should have faked the toss to Chase then booted
To the left and hit someone on drag route
I notice too on that run by Chase
Cordell Volson never got his shoulders squared up
And he was got his arms extended .he looked
Really bad on that play

I'm fairly certain Volson stayed at his LG spot and wasn't involved in the play. Bad call but I would like Burrow to have the ability to just call a QB sneak as there was only a guy over center and a guy on the edge. Could've just snapped and followed Volson for a yard.

[Joelist]

The play ran right and yes it was a bad call BUT Chase also screwed up as he ran right past a hole opened between Cappa and Karras where had he cut upfield he gets the first down easy.

[*Synric*]

People are saying they shouldn't have gone for it... I don't mind being aggressive trying to shut the game down early.

People are saying bad play call... I don't mind a run play on a 3rd and 1.

To me it was a bad play DESIGN. They actually have this play in their book and practice it. Its such a weird pitch play design because everyone can see what direction its going and its automatically going to be a pitch because of how the RB is lined up behind the tackle. The Center thats way on the left is pulling behind the ball carrier.... weird.

[fredtoast]

(09-26-2022, 04:54 PM)pally Wrote: I do give Zac credit for admitting that his play calling doesn't always work for whatever reason.  I keep holding out hope he learns from his mistakes

The problem is that fans don't judge a call on how good it was.  Instead they judge it on if it worked or not.  If that play had worked then it would be cited as proof of his ability to "think outside the box".

If a coach makes the usual call and it fails then he was "too predictable".

If a coach makes an unusual call and it fails then he was stupid for not doing "what every high school coach would have done".

And if a play works then it doesn't matter if it was a stupid call or not.

[Housh]

(09-26-2022, 09:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The problem is that fans don't judge a call on how good it was.  Instead they judge it on if it worked or not.  If that play had worked then it would be cited as proof of his ability to "think outside the box".

If a coach makes the usual call and it fails then he was "too predictable".

If a coach makes an unusual call and it fails then he was stupid for not doing "what every high school coach would have done".

And if a play works then it doesn't matter if it was a stupid call or not.

Exactly

And this is why i try not to play the hindsight game on play calls


But some calls just suck

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-26-2022, 09:27 PM)Joelist Wrote: The play ran right and yes it was a bad call BUT Chase also screwed up as he ran right past a hole opened between Cappa and Karras where had he cut upfield he gets the first down easy.

Not to be a know it all. But I recorded the game and I didn't think there was a hole. So I went back and watched it. Collins was the only lineman to come out to block and by the time he hits the pile Chase passes him. There was a large opening behind Collins but Chase would've had to cut back to it and Mosley and whatever safety were there completely unblocked so I don't think chase is making that work. The only way that play works I think is if Collins goes up field and takes on Mosley but who knows if chase would follow him. Whoever pointed out that it was the short field is right because there was no time for chase to use his speed. I really don't hate the 4th and 1 go for it but just give Burrow a few play options so he can read presnap.

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-26-2022, 09:31 PM)Synric Wrote: People are saying they shouldn't have gone for it... I don't mind being aggressive trying to shut the game down early.

People are saying bad play call... I don't mind a run play on a 3rd and 1.

To me it was a bad play DESIGN. They actually have this play in their book and practice it. Its such a weird pitch play design because everyone can see what direction its going and its automatically going to be a pitch because of how the RB is lined up behind the tackle. The Center thats way on the left is pulling behind the ball carrier.... weird.

This is a good point. Pitching it takes up too much space both backwards and to the side. If you run that play just hand it too Chase it's not quite as obvious to the defense and gives chase more time to decide whether to cut up field or to the boundary.

[Tomkat]

(09-26-2022, 04:48 PM)Housh Wrote: ...But on 4th and 1 to call an outside run that starts 4 yards behind the LOS is crazy.

Unless I'm mistaken, it was also to the SHORT SIDE of the field/hashmarks, meaning less room to turn the corner.

EDIT:  Yep, it was to the short side.  Don't know if it would have made much difference, as the has marks are pretty close together in the NFL.

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-26-2022, 09:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The problem is that fans don't judge a call on how good it was.  Instead they judge it on if it worked or not.  If that play had worked then it would be cited as proof of his ability to "think outside the box".

If a coach makes the usual call and it fails then he was "too predictable".

If a coach makes an unusual call and it fails then he was stupid for not doing "what every high school coach would have done".

And if a play works then it doesn't matter if it was a stupid call or not.

I agree to a point. I do think you have to account for an individual players skill set. I think as amazing as chase is that's not his strongest attribute. But I did just now think of a couple of positives to this play.

1: it's still not Zac's worst 4th down call the shotgun designed run with Dalton still holds that trophy.

2: this of all game situations was a 4th down you can afford not to pick up. So it's on tape and maybe in a game we need a big play on 4th down the defense will take the bait of chase coming across and we can catch going in another direction. So bad play call from Zac? Or next level genius move? To be determined later.

[BengalsBong]

If you need 1 yard, I just do not see a good reason to run 15 or 20 yards to the sideline before trying to get the 1 yard and turning up field a lot of wasted effort running that far when you could just drive block strait forward.

Zac has a few issues every game it seems play call or game management it always seems to be something never really a clean game with no mistakes. He is young maybe he grows out of it and becomes solid at both of those.