Let's Talk Extensions

[WeezyBengal]

We have a lot of players coming up for contracts the next couple of seasons. Below is the list of (notable) players that are up either at the end of this year or next year.

Offense

Jonah Williams - 2024 (will cost $12 million to pick up his 5th year option next year)
Tyler Boyd - 2024
Tee Higgins - 2024

Defense

DJ Reader - 2024
Logan Wilson - 2024
Germain Pratt - 2023
Eli Apple - 2023
Chido Awuzie - 2024
Vonn Bell - 2023
Jessie Bates - 2023


So, taking into account the fact that this team is going to re-sign Burrow in 2025 or earlier (which they 100% will), and the salary cap, who do you all want to extend?

To me, the biggest kicker in all of this is what they end up doing with Higgins and Chase. They are obviously going to try and keep at least one of those guys. Is there enough money to go around for both? Do they go all in on signing both of those guys while letting guys like Logan Wilson and DJ Reader go?

Also, a lot of money comes off the books if/when Bates, Reader, Mixon, and Boyd walk. I can't imagine they bring Boyd back past 2024 and Mixon past 2025 (if not sooner as a cut casualty). Reader is an interesting case - he is playing lights out but he will be expensive to keep.

So, what have you? Who are you trying to extend this off-season? For me personally I'd try to get Burrow done sooner than later...and then try and lock down some of the "not huge contracts but solid player" guys like Logan Wilson and Jonah Williams.

But man, this team could look a lot different in a couple years...especially the defense.

[kalibengal]

(10-04-2022, 09:50 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: We have a lot of players coming up for contracts the next couple of seasons. Below is the list of (notable) players that are up either at the end of this year or next year.

Offense

Jonah Williams - 2024 (will cost $12 million to pick up his 5th year option next year)
Tyler Boyd - 2024
Tee Higgins - 2024

Defense

DJ Reader - 2024
Logan Wilson - 2024
Germain Pratt - 2023
Eli Apple - 2023
Chido Awuzie - 2024
Vonn Bell - 2023
Jessie Bates - 2023


So, taking into account the fact that this team is going to re-sign Burrow in 2025 or earlier (which they 100% will), and the salary cap, who do you all want to extend?

To me, the biggest kicker in all of this is what they end up doing with Higgins and Chase. They are obviously going to try and keep at least one of those guys. Is there enough money to go around for both? Do they go all in on signing both of those guys while letting guys like Logan Wilson and DJ Reader go?

Also, a lot of money comes off the books if/when Bates, Reader, Mixon, and Boyd walk. I can't imagine they bring Boyd back past 2024 and Mixon past 2025 (if not sooner as a cut casualty). Reader is an interesting case - he is playing lights out but he will be expensive to keep.

So, what have you? Who are you trying to extend this off-season? For me personally I'd try to get Burrow done sooner than later...and then try and lock down some of the "not huge contracts but solid player" guys like Logan Wilson and Jonah Williams.

But man, this team could look a lot different in a couple years...especially the defense.

Logan more then solid and I really hope they can keep him...Jonah I think can be let go
We need to keep Reader, and I think ADG has shown he can handle business if Pratt is let go. We still need to see CTB play to see if he will allow us to move on from Eli or Chido.  Burrow no brainer and the chase /higgins decision will be interesting. Right now and really from Superbowl Higgins has benefited  great deal from the attention to Chase...in last nights Rams game they were saying how Kupp has had a hard time due to no OBJ on other side. Lets hope they find a way to keep both.  

[*pally*]

The biggest kicker is Joe Burrow's contract. They can start renegotiating with him this off-season. How much and how they pay his new contract will dictate much of what happens with everyone else.

That means we worry about 2024 after 2023, though knowing the Bengal's front office they have a plan.

Jonah still hasn't proven he is THE answer at LT so don't do anything with him yet.

The WR conumdrum is the biggest what-if out there. I don't think the Bengals will pay Tee Higgens what he will get as a number 1 receiver on another team. His agent will demand a huge signing bonus the Bengals won't do but some other team will. You resign a healthy still producing Tyler Boyd if possible. He hasn't had the injuries that shorten a WR's career

Jessie Bates is gone. You re-sign Bell and probably Apple (another 1 year deal). Right now I would say absolutely re-sign Chido but for a DB 1 3/4 seasons is a long time so you re-evaluate closer to contract time

Germaine Pratt has earned a 2nd contract but LB is one of our deepest room so don't overpay him

The biggest no-brainer on there is 2024 re-signing Logan Wilson

DJ Reader has earned another contract if he can be afforded. Availability is his biggest issue but when he plays he is an All-Pro. We get a chance to see how the team plays without him over the next 4-6 weeks.

3 of our 4 TEs are free agents in 2023. It is also one of the deepest TE drafts in years. Give Hurst a full season to see what he does. He is the one player I see giving a home team discount if his career can be revived here. Drew Sample is expendable but he fits the role he plays in this offense so I would bet he gets a 2nd contract.

[QueenCity]

If we had an offensive guru as a head coach who is creative this would be much easier decision. The Bengals to me leave a lot of points on the board.

Our defense has carried us more than some would like to believe.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-04-2022, 10:37 AM)pally Wrote: The biggest kicker is Joe Burrow's contract.  They can start renegotiating with him this off-season.  How much and how they pay his new contract will dictate much of what happens with everyone else.  

That means we worry about 2024 after 2023, though knowing the Bengal's front office they have a plan.

Jonah still hasn't proven he is THE answer at LT so don't do anything with him yet.

The WR conumdrum is the biggest what-if out there.  I don't think the Bengals will pay Tee Higgens what he will get as a number 1 receiver on another team.  His agent will demand a huge signing bonus the Bengals won't do but some other team will.  You resign a healthy still producing Tyler Boyd if possible.  He hasn't had the injuries that shorten a WR's career

Jessie Bates is gone.  You re-sign Bell and probably Apple (another 1 year deal).  Right now I would say absolutely re-sign Chido but for a DB 1 3/4 seasons is a long time so you re-evaluate closer to contract time

Germaine Pratt has earned a 2nd contract but LB is one of our deepest room so don't overpay him

The biggest no-brainer on there is  2024 re-signing Logan Wilson

DJ Reader has earned another contract if he can be afforded.  Availability is his biggest issue but when he plays he is an All-Pro.  We get a chance to see how the team plays without him over the next 4-6 weeks.

3 of our 4 TEs are free agents in 2023.  It is also one of the deepest TE drafts in years.  Give Hurst a full season to see what he does.  He is the one player I see giving a home team discount if his career can be revived here.  Drew Sample is expendable but he fits the role he plays in this offense so I would bet he gets a 2nd contract.

I think Jonah is a great extension candidate. You can get him for a value and I don't think we have seen his ceiling yet. I'd be willing to gamble on him. At worst he's the serviceable average to good player he has been. Plus the guy is still only 24. Thats wild to me. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-04-2022, 09:50 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: We have a lot of players coming up for contracts the next couple of seasons. Below is the list of (notable) players that are up either at the end of this year or next year.

Offense

Jonah Williams - 2024 (will cost $12 million to pick up his 5th year option next year)
Tyler Boyd - 2024
Tee Higgins - 2024

Defense

DJ Reader - 2024
Logan Wilson - 2024
Germain Pratt - 2023
Eli Apple - 2023
Chido Awuzie - 2024
Vonn Bell - 2023
Jessie Bates - 2023


So, taking into account the fact that this team is going to re-sign Burrow in 2025 or earlier (which they 100% will), and the salary cap, who do you all want to extend?

To me, the biggest kicker in all of this is what they end up doing with Higgins and Chase. They are obviously going to try and keep at least one of those guys. Is there enough money to go around for both? Do they go all in on signing both of those guys while letting guys like Logan Wilson and DJ Reader go?

Also, a lot of money comes off the books if/when Bates, Reader, Mixon, and Boyd walk. I can't imagine they bring Boyd back past 2024 and Mixon past 2025 (if not sooner as a cut casualty). Reader is an interesting case - he is playing lights out but he will be expensive to keep.

So, what have you? Who are you trying to extend this off-season? For me personally I'd try to get Burrow done sooner than later...and then try and lock down some of the "not huge contracts but solid player" guys like Logan Wilson and Jonah Williams.

But man, this team could look a lot different in a couple years...especially the defense.

Might be able to get Reader a cheaper extension than you're thinking. He'll be in his age 30 season when he hits FA and right now he's been injured 2 of the last 3 years. Of course then it becomes a question of do you actually want to. He certainly helps when he's out there but he's not out there.

They're sadly locked into Jonah's 5th year already I believe, but I think you need to look at finding a replacement for him. Maybe they can find a taker for him in a trade? Don't know if they'll have to eat part of it or not to get anything in value in return.

I think Mixon gets cut this offseason. He'll save $7.35m in cap space by being cut.

I like Logan Wilson and if they can get something reasonable done, great, but I just don't know how smart dumping top money into a non-pass rushing LB is in today's NFL. There are 6 ILB making $13m+/yr. They are on the Colts, 49ers, Jets, Jaguars, Titans, and Falcons.

Vonn Bell should get an extension if you can pay him as a top-20 S rather than a top-10 S. 

Awuzie should get an extension, but look to replace him as CB1. I would love him as a CB2 but as CB1 he's just kind of... eh.

Eli Apple I would like an upgrade and I just don't like.


Germaine Pratt is a 2 down LB, which feels pretty replaceable.

Bates, good luck trying to get $18m/yr in FA. Seems more and more like 2020 isn't the norm that we can expect to happen, which is a shame because his stretches of high play as so good, but way too inconsistent and matched with much longer mediocre/subpar stretches.

- - - - - -

Higgins I think you gotta trade next offseason. I think the going market price is a 1st that year and a 3rd the next year. Burrow is about to get $55-60m/yr, and Chase will be getting $32-35m/yr. I don't think you can get all 3 of them into the cap (Higgins being in the $25m/yr range would put the 3 together at around $115m/yr, that's just too much) while still having a decent team around them. Even if you could, the Bengals ownership doesn't likely have the >$300m in liquid funds to put into escrow to cover the guaranteed money the 3 of them will combine for.

Boyd I just kind of assumed would be gone in FA, but then Jarvis Landry signed for only 1yr/$3m, which thoroughly confused me and made me think that maybe the big market explosion is only for #1 WRs. I know he was coming off a bad year, but when your QB is a broken Baker Mayfield that's pretty understandable. Boyd will be heading into his age 30 season then like Landry was this offseason. I have no illusions that he will be signed for $3m, but if they can extend Boyd for somewhere around $10m/yr, then Ja'Marr Chase and Tyler Boyd would be a pretty strong framework for some young rookie contract WRs and TEs to fill in around.

- - - - - - -

So TLDR of the 10 guys you listed....

Extend (but don't break the bank):
Awuzie
Bell

Extend (if a bargain deal can be reached):
Reader
Wilson
Boyd

Trade (or let walk once FA if you can't trade):
Williams

Cut:
Mixon

Let Walk:
Apple
Bates
Pratt

[WeezyBengal]

(10-04-2022, 11:03 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Might be able to get Reader a cheaper extension than you're thinking. He'll be in his age 30 season when he hits FA and right now he's been injured 2 of the last 3 years. Of course then it becomes a question of do you actually want to. He certainly helps when he's out there but he's not out there.

They're sadly locked into Jonah's 5th year already I believe, but I think you need to look at finding a replacement for him. Maybe they can find a taker for him in a trade? Don't know if they'll have to eat part of it or not to get anything in value in return.

I think Mixon gets cut this offseason. He'll save $7.35m in cap space by being cut.

I like Logan Wilson and if they can get something reasonable done, great, but I just don't know how smart dumping top money into a non-pass rushing LB is in today's NFL. There are 6 ILB making $13m+/yr. They are on the Colts, 49ers, Jets, Jaguars, Titans, and Falcons.

Vonn Bell should get an extension if you can pay him as a top-20 S rather than a top-10 S. 

Awuzie should get an extension, but look to replace him as CB1. I would love him as a CB2 but as CB1 he's just kind of... eh.

Eli Apple I would like an upgrade and I just don't like.


Germaine Pratt is a 2 down LB, which feels pretty replaceable.

Bates, good luck trying to get $18m/yr in FA. Seems more and more like 2020 isn't the norm that we can expect to happen, which is a shame because his stretches of high play as so good, but way too inconsistent and matched with much longer mediocre/subpar stretches.

- - - - - -

Higgins I think you gotta trade next offseason. I think the going market price is a 1st that year and a 3rd the next year. Burrow is about to get $55-60m/yr, and Chase will be getting $32-35m/yr. I don't think you can get all 3 of them into the cap (Higgins being in the $25m/yr range would put the 3 together at around $115m/yr, that's just too much) while still having a decent team around them. Even if you could, the Bengals ownership doesn't likely have the >$300m in liquid funds to put into escrow to cover the guaranteed money the 3 of them will combine for.

Boyd I just kind of assumed would be gone in FA, but then Jarvis Landry signed for only 1yr/$3m, which thoroughly confused me and made me think that maybe the big market explosion is only for #1 WRs. I know he was coming off a bad year, but when your QB is a broken Baker Mayfield that's pretty understandable. Boyd will be heading into his age 30 season then like Landry was this offseason. I have no illusions that he will be signed for $3m, but if they can extend Boyd for somewhere around $10m/yr, then Ja'Marr Chase and Tyler Boyd would be a pretty strong framework for some young rookie contract WRs and TEs to fill in around.

- - - - - - -

So TLDR of the 10 guys you listed....

Extend (but don't break the bank):
Awuzie
Bell

Extend (if a bargain deal can be reached):
Reader
Wilson
Boyd

Trade (or let walk once FA if you can't trade):
Williams

Cut:
Mixon

Let Walk:
Apple
Bates
Pratt

I think you nailed it. What they do with Mixon is so interesting to me. I guess it all kind of depends on the year he has, but the Bengals usually dont cut their big name guys just to save money. Mixon is a fan favorite and a big locker room guy - cutting him if he continue to produce the way he has this season would be a smart, but not a very Bengals thing for them to do. 

[Goalpost]

IMO we really have to be selective. We can't become a team of 30 year olds+ with big contracts if downside starts to happen. Jonah, Logan, Tee,,Apple, and Pratt are between 25-28 when their contracts come up. Awuzie, Bell, Boyd, and Reader are 29-30. Hate to say it, because there are some good players here, but I'd try to stay young if possible.

[Mgbrown66]

No more multi-year 3rd contracts. The Bengals learned their lesson from the Dunlap, Atkins, etc...

[*ochocincos*]

Keep Wilson and Bell.

I'd love to keep Higgins, but I think it's in his best interest to sign a huge contract elsewhere as a true WR1. He'll never be a de facto WR1 with Chase also on the team. And I doubt the organization truly pays him like a Top 10 WR because of that.

I'm ok keeping Pratt too, but he's replaceable if he walks. Not a priority to me if I'm the organization.

If you had asked me in the offseason about Jonah Williams, I would say get him the extension. But he's declined so far this year.
If he returns back to his 2021 form by season's end, I'm extending him. He can be an above average OT when he's on his game.

Unless Mixon has a big turnaround toward the end of this year, I would be looking to free up $7 mill this offseason and move on from him.

Hill was drafted to be Bates' replacement, so Bates will be gone.

[*psychdoctor*]

I think DJ reader and Logan Wilson are critical for the defense. Logan Wilson is the stud on defense. The dude is all over the field. Also, I think von Bell is critical for what the Bengals want to do.

I'm not a big fan of J Williams but he is clearly worth a fifth year extension until they find his replacement. Since the Cincinnati Bengals have been winning their lower in the draft, so it's going to be much harder to get that left tackle.

I think the next draft the Bengals will go for a tight end and running back fairly early. Joe Mixon is well liked in the locker room and by the coaches and although he is struggling he would have to struggle for the rest of the year for them not to keep him on the roster.

Reader may not get the same stats as Aaron. Donald but he is probably the single most important piece for what the Cincinnati Bengals want to do on defense. And he was rated number one interior defense at some point because he can occupy two gaps. They need to resign him because finding a replacement would be quite difficult.

[Whatever]

(10-04-2022, 09:50 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: We have a lot of players coming up for contracts the next couple of seasons. Below is the list of (notable) players that are up either at the end of this year or next year.

Offense

Jonah Williams - 2024 (will cost $12 million to pick up his 5th year option next year)
Tyler Boyd - 2024
Tee Higgins - 2024

Defense

DJ Reader - 2024
Logan Wilson - 2024
Germain Pratt - 2023
Eli Apple - 2023
Chido Awuzie - 2024
Vonn Bell - 2023
Jessie Bates - 2023


So, taking into account the fact that this team is going to re-sign Burrow in 2025 or earlier (which they 100% will), and the salary cap, who do you all want to extend?

To me, the biggest kicker in all of this is what they end up doing with Higgins and Chase. They are obviously going to try and keep at least one of those guys. Is there enough money to go around for both? Do they go all in on signing both of those guys while letting guys like Logan Wilson and DJ Reader go?

Also, a lot of money comes off the books if/when Bates, Reader, Mixon, and Boyd walk. I can't imagine they bring Boyd back past 2024 and Mixon past 2025 (if not sooner as a cut casualty). Reader is an interesting case - he is playing lights out but he will be expensive to keep.

So, what have you? Who are you trying to extend this off-season? For me personally I'd try to get Burrow done sooner than later...and then try and lock down some of the "not huge contracts but solid player" guys like Logan Wilson and Jonah Williams.

But man, this team could look a lot different in a couple years...especially the defense.

I'm probably in the minority, but I think Jonah should be extended.  While he's not an elite LT, he's proven to be a good solid starter throughout his career thus far.  An upgrade in FA will cost a massive chunk of cap space and I have zero faith in the FO drafting an upgrade or even a replacement of similar caliber.  

The only way I see Boyd back is if he signs a very team friendly deal. The team does very well with highly drafted WR's, so it just doesn't seem like the value would be there vs cost of replacement.

Tee will be impossible to keep without major concessions on Burrow's part and/or trimming some roster fat(Mixon's contract, specifically).  Unless someone offers an AJ Brown type trade for him, I think he spends 2 years on the FT, then leaves.

Pratt is an interesting one.  It would probably be best to keep him if they can get a reasonable deal done, as Wilson, ADG, and Bailey are all UFA's the following year.

Apple is just one of those guys that it seems nobody wants, but he's outplayed his contract at the same time.  It comes down to money with him.  If he's willing to keep signing bargain one year deals, there's no reason not to keep him.

You resign Bell and let Bates walk.  That's pretty easy.

Reader should be reupped, but there has to be some caution, as he's had significant injuries two of the last three years.

Wilson should probably be extended after this off-season to avoid a potential bidding war driving his price through the roof.

Chido should definitely get paid.

[Clark W Griswold]

This is where drafting is going to be crucial to maintaining success.
Teams like the 2 in our division seem to always have good to solid defenses through strong drafting/developing. The Bengals will need to do this to maintain their Super Bowl window. The offensive stars are going to eat a lot of cap (as franchise QBs and WRs should in todays NFL) so they will need to keep the defense strong with young players. They should be able to re-sign Wilson and Bell to reasonable deals but I doubt they will retain Reader and Awuzie if they continue to perform as they have.

Tee is going to be tough. I can see him getting huge $ somewhere else but that would be a gigantic loss for the offense.

[casear2727]

Pretty sure Bengals elected to pick up Jonah's 5th year extension this past spring....

[*jason*]

We're getting DJ Reader in his prime, and he's missing/ missed time with injuries. Good organizations get those good years, then move on before it falls apart. Questionable organizations re-sign Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap to 3rd contracts. Having said that, I would offer Vonn an extension.

[*bfine32*]

(10-04-2022, 10:28 AM)kalibengal Wrote:  Right now and really from Superbowl Higgins has benefited  great deal from the attention to Chase...in last nights Rams game they were saying how Kupp has had a hard time due to no OBJ on other side. Lets hope they find a way to keep both.  

Cooper Kupp is absolutely crushing it this year and on pace for 179 catches.

As to the OP:

I think we'll do like we've often done. Groups will be offered a contract and the first to accept stays:

Wilson v. Pratt

Apple v. Uzi (yeah I said it)

Bates v. Bell

Boyd v. Higgins

Now each won't be offered the same; as Uzi would command more than Apple, but the first to accept their "fair offer" stays. 

 

[*Synric*]

Chido, Bell, and Apple should be automatic signings I don't think anyone of them are going to command top dollar and are great contributors. With the salary cap raising these guys should come in as value resigning. Jessie Bates is gone his replacement is already on the roster.

Germaine Pratt's up and down career puts him in that maybe depending on money category. ADG and Bailey will likely be resigned as cheap depth and special teams... Now Logan Wilson is the question mark here can get they him extended before a huge bidding war because cover LB that can play sideline to sideline are in demand.

What to do about DJ Reader is a bigger question than people realize. He is an expensive contract and will be expensive again which he deserves but do you give him 3 years signed until he's 32 or do you target NT early in the 2023 draft?

Tee Higgins is going to one of those tough players to keep. I can see them running into the same problems over guaranteed money as they did with Jessie Bates. Im with people saying they should look for a good trade opportunity and draft another receiver... maybe 2.

[leonardfan40]

Try our best to keep:
Wilson
Higgins (tag and negotiate after year 4. If we aren’t close, it turns into tag and trade)

Keep at a fair price:
Pratt
Bell

Wait and see how they are performing at the time due to age:
Awuzie
Reader
-I don’t necessarily think either will be must keeps by 2024. Definitely don’t break the bank at that point.

Keep if they come cheap:
Boyd
Apple-I know everyone loves to hate him but he greatly outperformed both contracts we’ve paid him. We are going to need more and more of these types (scrap heap guys who outperform their contracts) as the young guns get big contracts.

Let Bates walk. Must hit on 3 draft picks a year to stay where we want to be. Pick up extra picks however possible.

[Clark W Griswold]

This is where drafting is going to be crucial to maintaining success.
Teams like the 2 in our division seem to always have good to solid defenses through strong drafting/developing. The Bengals will need to do this to maintain their Super Bowl window. The offensive stars are going to eat a lot of cap (as franchise QBs and WRs should in todays NFL) so they will need to keep the defense strong with young players. They should be able to re-sign Wilson and Bell to reasonable deals but I doubt they will retain Reader and Awuzie if they continue to perform as they have.

Tee is going to be tough. I can see him getting huge $ somewhere else but that would be a gigantic loss for the offense.

[tms]

It's inevitable that Burrow will need to elevate his own wideouts. The days of Rice/Taylor, Monk/Clark, Carter/Moss are over (and the latter only played four seasons together), mainly because today's most overpaid NFL positions are QB and WR. There's just not enough payroll pie to go around. The guy they choose to keep will have a ripple effect on everyone else. And that's assuming they can even keep one; they may not be able to do that (e.g., Adams, Tyreek).

As a rule, I'd prefer to keep drafting and developing DL. The DJ Readers and Trey Hendricksons of the world are a total shot in the dark and I wouldn't want to rely on that happening again. The OL should be a combo of proven mid-rung FAs who want to play with a generational quarterback, along with Day 2/3 projects. I know that sounds like suicide today but I'm hoping our OL culture will have improved by the time we need to make these decisions and we'll be on our way towards pumping out a revolving door of linemen like the Pats and Ravens. I expect Jonah to be the first casualty. As for RB, also spend a Day 2/3 pick on them every other year. That's just the way the league is going and we'd do well to follow suit.

Beyond Burrow and a wideout, I think Logan Wilson's next on my re-sign list. Especially for this defense. He never leaves the field, he holds it all together, and he's a bit of an elevator in his own right. As for the secondary, I would normally go bargain FA for that position group as well (e.g., Chido, Bell, Apple have worked out well), but they just drafted two blue-chippers and needn't worry about it for a while. I would keep Bates until we feel Dax can take over, but I wouldn't try to play them together (I don't know how that would even work- not saying it wouldn't, just that I'd need to see it first).

Ultimately, imo it all comes down to the fact that this team finally signed a GM: Joe Burrow.