OL PFF Grades - Week 4

[Sled21]

I think it all boils down to whoever is in charge of watching and grading our line is a Stoolers fan.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-04-2022, 11:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: PFF was very much not impressed with the OL's performance against MIA...

Williams:
Overall - 60.2
Pass Block (PB) - 49.5
Run Block (RB) - 70.8
Sacks - 0
Hits - 0
Pressures - 2
Penalties - 0

Volson:
Overall - 38.2
PB - 44.8
RB - 24.2
Sacks - 1
Hits - 0
Pressures - 3
Penalties - 1

Karras:
Overall - 47.5
PB - 51.5
RB - 55.3
Sacks - 0
Hits - 0
Pressures - 3
Penalties - 1

Cappa:
Overall - 47.0
PB - 48.0
RB - 43.5
Sacks - 0
Hits - 2
Pressures - 2
Penalties - 0

Collins:
Overall - 45.0
PB - 48.5
RB - 35.5
Sacks - 0
Hits - 0
Pressures - 2
Penalties - 1

If i were to look anyone at PFF in the eye right now, i'd say...

[Luvnit2]

I would love to see PFF grades for other OL's in week 4.
1. Miami (got the QB almost killed)
2. KC - Mahommes was running for his life a lot (I know he made great plays, but that was not due to great OL play)
3. Rams
4. Ravens
5. Bills
I was at sports bar as my power and TV were out and watched all of these games. I saw as many issues with these OL's as I did with the Bengals (just saw Bengals game today)

I know lot of work, but maybe PFF is accurate for OL, maybe not.

[Luvnit2]

Does anyone think Mixon's style does not fit our blocking scheme. It seems like Mixon is 6 to 7 yards deep on a lot of running plays so it take him time to get to the hole (LOS). It seemed Perrine the end of the Jets game was lined up closer to the LOS and hit the hole faster and ran well.

Maybe our OL and run blocking is not the issue, maybe we need a faster back to run the scheme they run.

Thoughts???

[*ochocincos*]

(10-04-2022, 03:48 PM)Fullrock Wrote: I don't care if they stand backwards as long as the dude they're blocking doesn't get to the QB lol.

I think that's the thing though - PFF likely is looking at those things. Which could explain the "inaccurate" ratings compared to what we see/care about, which is just having a defender get through you in the passing game, or not creating holes or getting push in the run game.

[Murdock2420]

PFF is certainly an inconsistent measurement but it is also important to remember that it isn't science. It is literally someone watching tape and grading the players. NFL front offices can't agree on grades for players from college tape and building a draft board, seems that trend would continue when you have a guy sitting there watching film and breaking it down on his opinion and metrics giving to him by the company.

This isn't to say that PFF is useless, but it is certainly saying that it is certainly flawed.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-04-2022, 05:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would love to see PFF grades for other OL's in week 4.
1. Miami (got the QB almost killed)
2. KC - Mahommes was running for his life a lot (I know he made great plays, but that was not due to great OL play)
3. Rams
4. Ravens
5. Bills
I was at sports bar as my power and TV were out and watched all of these games. I saw as many issues with these OL's as I did with the Bengals (just saw Bengals game today)

I know lot of work, but maybe PFF is accurate for OL, maybe not.

It is a lot to do all 5, but I'll do the first two you asked.

Miami:
Connor Williams - 67.3 overall (83.4 pass, 61.0 run) - 0 pressures, 0 penalties
Robert Hunt - 54.6 overall (66.4 pass, 57.2 run) - 1 hit, 1 pressure, 1 penalty
Terron Armstead - 71.3 overall (65.9 pass, 82.2 run) - 1 hit, 3 pressures, 1 penalty
Liam Eichenberg - 48.1 overall (54.3 pass, 45.7 run) - 1 hit, 3 pressures, 0 penalties
Greg Little - 38.6 overall (36.3 pass, 37.7 run) - 2 hits, 5 pressures, 0 penalties

Chiefs:
Trey Smith - 76.7 overall (83.9 pass, 70.1 run) - 1 pressure, 0 penalties
Joe Thuney - 68.7 overall (83.9 pass, 61.6 run) - 0 pressures, 0 penalties
Creed Humphrey - 81.0 overall (67.6 pass, 81.5 run) - 1 hit, 2 pressures, 0 penalties
Orlando Brown - 57.1 overall (55.1 pass, 55.2 run) - 1 sack, 4 pressures, 0 penalties
Andrew Wylie - 61.5 overall (51.3 pass, 64.8 run) - 1 sack, 2 pressures, 0 penalties

[TheFan]

(10-04-2022, 05:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It is a lot to do all 5, but I'll do the first two you asked.

Miami:
Connor Williams - 67.3 overall (83.4 pass, 61.0 run) - 0 pressures, 0 penalties
Robert Hunt - 54.6 overall (66.4 pass, 57.2 run) - 1 hit, 1 pressure, 1 penalty
Terron Armstead - 71.3 overall (65.9 pass, 82.2 run) - 1 hit, 3 pressures, 1 penalty
Liam Eichenberg - 48.1 overall (54.3 pass, 45.7 run) - 1 hit, 3 pressures, 0 penalties
Greg Little - 38.6 overall (36.3 pass, 37.7 run) - 2 hits, 5 pressures, 0 penalties

Chiefs:
Trey Smith - 76.7 overall (83.9 pass, 70.1 run) - 1 pressure, 0 penalties
Joe Thuney - 68.7 overall (83.9 pass, 61.6 run) - 0 pressures, 0 penalties
Creed Humphrey - 81.0 overall (67.6 pass, 81.5 run) - 1 hit, 2 pressures, 0 penalties
Orlando Brown - 57.1 overall (55.1 pass, 55.2 run) - 1 sack, 4 pressures, 0 penalties
Andrew Wylie - 61.5 overall (51.3 pass, 64.8 run) - 1 sack, 2 pressures, 0 penalties

The disparity in those scores is honestly laughable 

[Whatever]

(10-04-2022, 03:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And that's where it'd be great to have clearer definitions of how their grading works.
Did an OL exhibit poor technique/footwork/power often, but it just didn't result in a pressure?

What PFF supposedly does is assign each player a score from -2 to +2 on each play.  The important thing to remember is a "0" on a play is considered an average/typical performance on a play.  If you have a handful of negatively graded snaps, then you have to have a handful of snaps where you go above and beyond to average it out.  If you don't have those snaps where you earn a positive grade, then your overall grade will wind up being negative even though the majority of your reps are graded as "average".  

I personally had a subscription to PFF, but cancelled it after noticing some glaring issues in pressures/sacks allowed recording.  I don't think it was across the board, but there definitely seemed to be a pattern in making certain OL look better than they were.  IMO, there is a conflict of interest since they have started doing more draft prospect coverage and they were making certain guys look better to validate their draft rankings.

A big thing people are missing, though, is there is a very tight curve for NFL OL.  The elite guys are winning 98-99% of their reps and the really bad ones are still winning over 90% of the time.  That's why from an analytics side, WAR for OL is so low.  If the offense runs 60 snaps, it only takes a couple of bad reps per game to drop down into the bad 90% range and you have to be basically perfect to be in the 98%+ range.  

[Gdale_Bengal]

So it would be interesting to see who had the best tape and grade and watch his snaps

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-04-2022, 05:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would love to see PFF grades for other OL's in week 4.
Oline scores, left to right with pressures in parenthesis.

1. Miami (got the QB almost killed)
71.3 (3), 48.1 (3), 67.3 (0), 54.6 (1), 38.6 (5)

2. KC - Mahommes was running for his life a lot (I know he made great plays, but that was not due to great OL play)
57.1 (4), 68.7 (0), 81.0 (2), 76.7 (1), 61.5 (2)

3. Rams
53.1 (8), 34.3 (7), 38.6 (4), 57.6 (3), 70.0 (3)

4. Ravens
56.4 (3), 69.5 (0), 46.1 (0), 56.7 (2), 55.4 (5)

5. Bills
55.4 (1), 62.8 (0), 53.6 (2), 61.5 (2), 74.2 (2)

I was at sports bar as my power and TV were out and watched all of these games. I saw as many issues with these OL's as I did with the Bengals (just saw Bengals game today)

I know lot of work, but maybe PFF is accurate for OL, maybe not.

Answers in bold. 

[Tony]

Volson is awful

[sandwedge]

(10-05-2022, 12:21 AM)Tony Wrote: Volson is awful

Not even close to the truth

[Housh]

(10-05-2022, 12:21 AM)Tony Wrote: Volson is awful

Man the eye test at least from the Dolphins games says he’s alright


He had a couple huge mistakes the first 2 games but i feel like the Dolphins and Jets games were solid outings for a rookie.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-04-2022, 03:21 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Burrow had 31 attempts in week 4. If you are Collins and Williams, you kept him clean 94% of the time. I just don't get how that can give you a grade below 50. It's bizarre. 

Grading them low in the run game, OK I get it - but these are trash grades for pass protection.

I know they are rated very harshly for giving up a single sack or a penalty.  

I think they would be graded very differently if Burrow was making quicker reads (that seems to be coming) and Mixon was doing a better job reading the blocks and hitting the holes/busting outside when needed at a more successful rate.

Mixon's ratings are among the worst in the league (he's literally 35th out of 35 that had a certain number of carries) on so many measures, but he is second in the league in attempts.  In short, he is having a horrible season and Joe is below his average.  At least Joe's needle is pointing up.  

[Sled21]

(10-05-2022, 12:21 AM)Tony Wrote: Volson is awful

You don't watch much football, do you.....

[Luvnit2]

(10-04-2022, 10:04 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Answers in bold. 

TY for the PFF scores for the 5 (rep)

Other than KC, it appears PFF trashed the other OL's also so maybe OL play in general is down or they are Everly critical for that position group in the league. I know KC had a lot of rushing yards, but they also rarely had a clean pocket in the passing game. It was Mahommes ability to get away from from pressure to extend and make 2 great TD's throws that made the OL looked better than they were against the Bucs.

[Whatever]

(10-05-2022, 01:07 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Not even close to the truth

(10-05-2022, 08:18 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You don't watch much football, do you.....

Among G's, Volson leads the league in Sacks Allowed and is tied for second in Penalties.  How in God's name is he not awful?

[Sled21]

(10-05-2022, 09:48 AM)Whatever Wrote: Among G's, Volson leads the league in Sacks Allowed and is tied for second in Penalties.  How in God's name is he not awful?

He's a first-year player who was lined up against Cam Heyward in his first game, then face Dallas and NYJ's interior D lines. That will skew anyone's numbers. Heyward is Heyward, and Dallas and NYJ have some of the better interior D lines in the league. I watch him specifically on a lot of plays, and he is getting better and better very quickly. 

[Whatever]

(10-05-2022, 09:56 AM)Sled21 Wrote: He's a first-year player who was lined up against Cam Heyward in his first game, then face Dallas and NYJ's interior D lines. That will skew anyone's numbers. Heyward is Heyward, and Dallas and NYJ have some of the better interior D lines in the league. I watch him specifically on a lot of plays, and he is getting better and better very quickly. 

Heyward had a sack and three QB hits against us and has been shut out of those columns his other three games this year.  The Cowboys' DT's have a combined one sack and one QB hit between them this year.  His numbers do not appear to be skewed based on what the guys he's faced have done in their other games this year.  

Nobody is saying he can't improve.  However, the fact is that he's currently one of(if not the) worst starting G's in the league.  That's pretty awful.  Being a rookie doesn't change that.  

Like I said earlier, even bad NFL OL are winning or at least stalemating 90+% of their snaps.  You can watch anybody and think they're decent if you discount a handful of bad reps per game, but that handful of bad reps per game is why he's one of the worst starting G's in the league.