The Dalton curse is over !!!

[JumboTron]

(10-17-2022, 04:52 AM)Old Dipstick Wrote: Nine years and not one single playoff win..yep a lot of great years they were
 

Weird you're wasting your time posting on this site as opposed to celebrating your teams win over the Bucs yesterday.

[Sled21]

(10-17-2022, 03:36 PM)ATOTR Wrote: Why are there so many fans still enamored and protective over him?

His own players say he was a backup caliber qb - Ill trust that assessment (And the stats that back it up) opposed to the sentimental feelings of Dalton fans on a message board. 

Care to link that???

[ATOTR]

(10-17-2022, 03:40 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Care to link that???

I already did,  but here ya go again. 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2022/1/14/22883546/adam-pacman-jones-upgrading-from-andy-dalton-to-joe-burrow-is-why-these-bengals-are-different

[ATOTR]

(10-17-2022, 03:38 PM)JumboTron Wrote: Weird you're wasting your time posting on this site as opposed to celebrating your teams win over the Bucs yesterday.

So, he is a Steelers fan because he doesnt think Andy Dalton was very good in Cincy.   Makes sense. 

[Sled21]

(10-17-2022, 03:46 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I already did,  but here ya go again. 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2022/1/14/22883546/adam-pacman-jones-upgrading-from-andy-dalton-to-joe-burrow-is-why-these-bengals-are-different

So, not "Players" but Pacman

[ATOTR]

(10-17-2022, 03:48 PM)Sled21 Wrote: So, not "Players" but Pacman

Is that a problem for you?  let me guess, you dont deem that to be a worthy source, lol

The guy played with him for like 7 seasons. and made his NFL career defending WRs and QBs

Ill trust his assessment over yours. 

[Garrus]

(10-17-2022, 03:34 PM)ATOTR Wrote: If andy was above average, he would have had above average stats.  As I showed you,  he was in the bottom 50% of QBs most of his seasons in Cincy. 

And that is why the only job he was offered at age 32 was a backup gig.  Then another backup gig, and then a 3rd. 

I get that you like the guy.  But the facts and numbers and performance show he was below avg.  

So then we were so successful during his years in spite of him? Can he thank Marvin Lewis for coaching so well to drag him to the playoffs 5+ years? Especially in 2015 when he was in the MVP conversation before he got hurt? 

All those stats show is he was not a volume passer. He was a game manager so that's not surprising. But he was good at managing the game and because of that we won a lot. Bad QBs can't even do that most of a season, let alone 6+ years.

 I am not defending Dalton because I like him, I am doing it because you are wrong in saying he was below average. The majority of his career he was average to above average. 

[ATOTR]

(10-17-2022, 03:59 PM)Garrus Wrote: So then we were so successful during his years in spite of him? Can he thank Marvin Lewis for coaching so well to drag him to the playoffs 5+ years? Especially in 2015 when he was in the MVP conversation before he got hurt? 

All those stats show is he was not a volume passer. He was a game manager so that's not surprising. But he was good at managing the game and because of that we won a lot. Bad QBs can't even do that most of a season, let alone 6+ years.

 I am not defending Dalton because I like him, I am doing it because you are wrong in saying he was below average. The majority of his career he was average to above average. 

Yes. You’re first part is correct

He was a handicap to the team. They were successful with him dragging down the most important position on the field.

His stats show he is below average. And he was in Cincinnati too.

You’re posting your opinion based on feelings

[Garrus]

(10-17-2022, 04:03 PM)ATOTR Wrote: Yes. You’re first part is correct

He was a handicap to the team.  They were successful with him dragging down the most important position on the field.

His stats show he is below average.  And he was in Cincinnati too.  

You’re posting your opinion based on feelings

No I am posting on historical fact. He went 5 straight years with a winning record, and 2 division titles including an MVP caliber season. Bad QBs do not have that much sustained success regardless of how talented the team around them is. 

I am not saying he was a great QB, I am just saying he was average at worst and above average at best. 

But if you really think it was Marvin Lewis coaching that carried him then how bad was Carson Palmer? He had Lewis too but did not have nearly the same success as Dalton did with only 2 winning seasons in his career here. 

[QueenCity]

Dalton generally needs a loaded team around him to have success. He isn't going to elevate your piss poor roster into contention.

AKA - Game manager QB.... nothing wrong with that but don't expect to win a SB with him.

[ATOTR]

(10-17-2022, 04:08 PM)Garrus Wrote: No I am posting on historical fact. He went 5 straight years with a winning record, and 2 division titles including an MVP caliber season. Bad QBs do not have that much sustained success regardless of how talented the team around them is. 

I am not saying he was a great QB, I am just saying he was average at worst and above average at best. 

But if you really think it was Marvin Lewis coaching that carried him then how bad was Carson Palmer? He had Lewis too but did not have nearly the same success as Dalton did with only 2 winning seasons in his career here. 

Why does Baker Mayfield have like a 100 rating and a 5-1 record vs Cincy?

Why did Mike White torch the super bowl bound bengals?

Why did Cooper Rush win his forst 4 NFL Starts?

 
Good teams can compensate for shi.tty QBs.  And bad QBs can have stretches where they play well.  

Again, Dalton was ranked in the bottom half of the league in 5 of his 9 years here.  Not sure why you cant understand this. 

[Garrus]

(10-17-2022, 04:22 PM)ATOTR Wrote: Why does Baker Mayfield have like a 100 rating and a 5-1 record vs Cincy?

Why did Mike White torch the super bowl bound bengals?

Why did Cooper Rush win his forst 4 NFL Starts?

 
Good teams can compensate for shi.tty QBs.  And bad QBs can have stretches where they play well.  

Again, Dalton was ranked in the bottom half of the league in 5 of his 9 years here.  Not sure why you cant understand this. 

Yeah, they can do that for a game or 2 sure. But you can't do that for 5+ seasons straight. 

Dalton would usually have 1-2 really bad games a year (usually primetime games), then 1-2 great games as well. The rest were average, usually enough for us to win.

Also, Andy Dalton is much better than all of those QBs you listed. They are all actual below average QBs. 

[ATOTR]

(10-17-2022, 04:27 PM)Garrus Wrote: Yeah, they can do that for a game or 2 sure. But you can't do that for 5+ seasons straight. 

Dalton would usually have 1-2 really bad games a year (usually primetime games), then 1-2 great games as well. The rest were average, usually enough for us to win.

Also, Andy Dalton is much better than all of those QBs you listed. They are all actual below average QBs. 

Again, Dalton was ranked in the bottom half of the league in 5 of his 9 years here.

[Sled21]

(10-17-2022, 03:50 PM)ATOTR Wrote: Is that a problem for you?  let me guess, you dont deem that to be a worthy source, lol

The guy played with him for like 7 seasons. and made his NFL career defending WRs and QBs

Ill trust his assessment over yours. 

Yeah, you said teammates, plural, to try to make it look like the locker room was saying it. It was one person, PacMan Jones, who I like but is not the most stable individual in the world. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-17-2022, 04:08 PM)Garrus Wrote: No I am posting on historical fact. He went 5 straight years with a winning record, and 2 division titles including an MVP caliber season. Bad QBs do not have that much sustained success regardless of how talented the team around them is. 

I am not saying he was a great QB, I am just saying he was average at worst and above average at best. 

But if you really think it was Marvin Lewis coaching that carried him then how bad was Carson Palmer? He had Lewis too but did not have nearly the same success as Dalton did with only 2 winning seasons in his career here. 

Then Palmer gets with Bruce Arians and goes to a NFCCG with two bum knees, an ailing shoulder, and that elbow. I think it's safe to say we know the anchor that kept this team from winning playoff games.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-17-2022, 10:11 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: If we lose a Super Bowl to Andy Dalton that is it. I’m out.

Don't have to worry about that. He won't make it out of the first round.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-17-2022, 03:30 PM)Mer Wrote: Was he a playoff quality QB? No. Was he good enough to get us to the playoffs? 5 years in a row isn't bad. Andy did a lot of good things here. Why is there so much unjustified hatred for him? 

What about the 4 years after the last playoff game?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-16-2022, 11:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Glad we pulled out the win, but also glad to see Dalton still starting games in the NFL.

Word is that he may have taken the job from Jameis, and rightfully so. Good for him.

That is cool, hope he does well from here on out with the Saints.

But yeah, happy we beat him. He is a decent QB when he is on his game and has time. Better than Jameis IMO.

Doesn't have the big arm that Jameis does but he is smarter and more accurate.

Thinking we would of won by a larger amount if Jameis started.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-17-2022, 09:55 AM)ATOTR Wrote: They wasted 9 years on dalton. A decade of opportunity flushed down the drain on a backup level QB. Cause they were too afraid to make any changes or attempt to get better at the position.

9 years. Dalton was below league avg in passer rating/QBR 5 of those 9 years. (Below 16th of 32 qualified starters)

He was 16th once

And he was better than league average just 3 times in 9 years.

Playoff Stats: 55% completion, 1 TD. 6 INT, 4 Fumbles, 57 Rating

There is a reason why, at age 32 when he was released, the only job he has had since is as a backup QB.


6-19 in primetime games. 3-13 vs Pittsburgh

And he owns 2 of the 5 lowest rated passer ratings games in NFL history.


Andy blows

1. Calling Dalton (at his peak) a backup QB is a dumb take.

2. Your "stat/fact" has been debunked as many times as it's been regurgitated. The folly in this stat is that it judges Andy against only the top 32 QB's when there are often 40+ that qualify.

The better way to judge Andy would be against all qualifiers or to judge his passer rating against the league total for each year.

3. The playoff and prime time stats have to be taken with a giant grain of salt because Dalton played under Marvin Lewis. Palmer had terrible Prime Time stats, too. Until he left, anyways.

[KillerGoose]

(10-17-2022, 06:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Calling Dalton (at his peak) a backup QB is a dumb take.

2. Your "stat/fact" has been debunked as many times as it's been regurgitated. The folly in this stat is that it judges Andy against only the top 32 QB's when there are often 40+ that qualify.

3. The playoff and prime time stats have to be taken with a giant grain of salt because Dalton played under Marvin Lewis. Palmer had terrible Prime Time stats, too. Until he left, anyways.

Great post. In his best years (2011-2015), Dalton was ranked 14th in EPA per play. There are a couple of ways of "factually" looking at this - relative ranking, and Z-Score. Dalton ranked 14th out of 37 QBs that logged over 1000 dropbacks from 2011-2015. Slightly above average. From a Z-Score perspective, he scored a 0.28. 

0 is perfectly average
1 is good
2 is fantastic
3 is generational

Dalton was slightly above average in the 2011-2015 campaigns. He fell off after that, but so did the rest of the team. We always knew this, too. Dalton needed a talented roster to produce. Once that talent started dipping, he wasn't able to compensate.